Hymer Aktiv... our first RV!

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

There is no such a thing as "4 seasons coach".

I guess it depends on what you consider to be a 4 seasons coach.

In terms of production vans I think ARV comes close but there is a minimum temperature where the tank and pipe heating using the Espar glycol cannot provide enough heat to keep things from freezing. Davydd can probably provide that minimum temperature limit.

There are custom vans from Sportsmobile, Outside Van, etc. that could be set up to be 4 season with a cassette toilet, internal fresh and gray tanks, and all plumbing lines in the heated portion of the van.

There are many larger RVs that are 4 season capable with the tanks and plumbing all within heated areas.

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

@4DMTNS - Glad to see customers are responding to the HYMER product. If you have not shared already, what was the biggest reason to choose the ACTIV over the other products in the segment?

We haven't purchased our RV yet, but the Aktiv is on the short list (Aktiv, SS Agile, Travato) compared to a Travato for instance:

- It is on the shorter Dodge Promaster chassis
- Has the underhood generator instead of a standard Onan propane - I like not having to have another engine to maintain and we won't use it much anyway
- Pro or Con but it has a cassette toilet. We could go either way here but given how we want to use it as a day hiking/fishing base camp I like the idea of not having to find a place to dump the black tank (e.g. use the toilet once or twice after a hike then just dump it in the toilet at home).
- I like the layout (similar to the Travato 59G) with the two zones (front seating and rear sleeping) and under bed storage for adventure gear (bike, fishing, hiking, etc. etc.).
- Nice bathroom
- Nice skylight above dinette

Compared to Sprinter based vans:

- It has a gas engine. Pros and cons to both but the new diesels do concern me (although the other choice on the short list is a Sprinter SS Agile) and I like being able to buy gas instead of finding diesel.
- I like front wheel drive
- I don't like the driving position... may kill any of the Dodge based vans for me but I am going to try again (this weekend wish me luck) to see if I am comfortable in the driving position. Sprinter is perfect but I was not happy with the Dodge... maybe I can get it to work.
- Concerned about a Chrysler based vans. I dont want to start a war on this topic either but its a concern for me, but the reviews and user experience seems to be really good. Also, Sprinters (our other option) are not cheap and not without their share of issues so maybe that's a wash.
- It's cheaper than a Sprinter based van. For our use case (1 long vacation per year, weekend use, and base camp for hiking and fishing, when overnight 90% using camp sites with hook ups), IMO the value in the Travato and Aktiv vans I think are higher than similar Sprinter based vans (e.g. Roadtrek SS Agile, etc.).

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by 4DMTNS

@Campervanguy - congrats on ordering your Aktiv, if I were on Facebook I would connect there. What color did you choose?

@Keyne - I ordered my Aktiv without the stripe and Aktiv graphics, no charge. They will ship the graphics in a package in the rig should I want to have them put on later.

The rig is not advertised as 4-season, but all water lines except the gray water tank are internal.

Navanod posted a picture of the MSRP sheet w/options for a 2016 chassis/2017 build prices earlier in this thread. There aren't too many "options" on an Aktiv.

Discount pricing, cannot speak to what is currently going on. I got a good deal; some dealerships have offered early-adopter pricing breaks. It was not like the 20+ percent off I could have gotten for a Travato.

Hope this is helpful. The GoHymer site offers an Aktiv brochure PDF that has a list of specifications and options.

Thank you. That is great news.

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I guess it depends on what you consider to be a 4 seasons coach.

In terms of production vans I think ARV comes close but there is a minimum temperature where the tank and pipe heating using the Espar glycol cannot provide enough heat to keep things from freezing. Davydd can probably provide that minimum temperature limit.

There are custom vans from Sportsmobile, Outside Van, etc. that could be set up to be 4 season with a cassette toilet, internal fresh and gray tanks, and all plumbing lines in the heated portion of the van.

There are many larger RVs that are 4 season capable with the tanks and plumbing all within heated areas.

Sorry to confuse; above is what I meant regarding 4 season capability. For instance:

- Water lines inside van (can be heated)
- Fresh water inside van (can be heated)
- Casette toilet - The cassette is inside the van so can be heated
- Grey water - Sounds like the Aktiv does not have a heat strip like the Travato so could go without the grey use or add a heating bad.

Overall that is much closer to being able to use it in colder weather than other class B vans (e.g. RoadTrek SS Agile) and with some minorish modification could be made more capable. In our situation I would most likely winterize everything, but if we went snow shoeing for an afternoon we could still use the cassette toilet. Also, I would have look underneath but it would be nice to have more of the plumbing bits inside the van when driving in winter.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Keyne

Sorry to confuse; above is what I meant regarding 4 season capability. For instance:

- Water lines inside van (can be heated)
- Fresh water inside van (can be heated)
- Casette toilet - The cassette is inside the van so can be heated
- Grey water - Sounds like the Aktiv does not have a heat strip like the Travato so could go without the grey use or add a heating bad.

Overall that is much closer to being able to use it in colder weather than other class B vans (e.g. RoadTrek SS Agile) and with some minorish modification could be made more capable. In our situation I would most likely winterize everything, but if we went snow shoeing for an afternoon we could still use the cassette toilet. Also, I would have look underneath but it would be nice to have more of the plumbing bits inside the van when driving in winter.

My question to BBQ was just that, what do you mean by 4 season capable.

I agree that the only think the Aktiv needs is the grey water tank heater option that is available in the European version (Grand Canyon) to be 4 season capable down to some TBD minimum temperature. Add a heating pad to the grey water tank since Hymer is not offering that option in North America.

In all cases where there is something outside the heated area of the van that is heated using heating pads or heated glycol or whatever there is likely some minimum temperature limit that the added heating cannot handle.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

In all cases where there is something outside the heated area of the van that is heated using heating pads or heated glycol or whatever there is likely some minimum temperature limit that the added heating cannot handle.

That would be true even if everything were INSIDE the van. It is true in your home. Stay cold enough long enough and some gap in insulation or failure of warm-air circulation in the back of some cabinet will get you. I believe that the ARV setup (and my copy of it) is as robust as a vehicle with all-inside plumbing. I admit that I haven't proven it yet.

[CamperVanGuy]

@4DMTNS - says black on my worksheet, but not real sure till I see in person

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by avanti

That would be true even if everything were INSIDE the van. It is true in your home. Stay cold enough long enough and some gap in insulation or failure of warm-air circulation in the back of some cabinet will get you. I believe that the ARV setup (and my copy of it) is as robust as a vehicle with all-inside plumbing. I admit that I haven't proven it yet.

Agreed. As mentioned even some homes can have issues. For our use case I liked the Aktiv setup that would be easier to use in cold temperatures. We would not be living in the van so we would choose our times using the van when it would be good to use it (e.g. we wouldn't go out in a blizzard to use the van). Of course you can always get stuck in bad weather but I was really interested in how the plumbing was setup (inside or outside) and if they had added certain heating elements to tanks. We are going to see the Aktiv on Saturday so I thought I would ask before seeing it. It seems like a higher tech Travato 59G and similar to the 59G IMO packs a lot of value for the money.

[4DMTNS]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

@4DMTNS - Glad to see customers are responding to the HYMER product. If you have not shared already, what was the biggest reason to choose the ACTIV over the other products in the segment?

I looked at FWD/RWD/4x4, new/used/build options, spent time talking to actual ClassB owners camped near me in my tent this last year, and ultimately decided to buy something new.

I spend quite a bit of time along backroads throughout Oregon, Washington and Idaho, so I chose a chassis that I thought could get emergency service by most mechanics, battery type (AGM 6V) that could be easily located and purchased should I screw them up, and gas vs diesel after noticing how few stations offered diesel on some of my road-trips.

And, then I started looking at pre-built rigs to see how they felt inside. I did my fair share of opening/closing doors/drawers, sitting in the passenger seat turned to look at the rig while reading a brochure, rolling under the rigs, climbing on ladders, etc. I also brought my backpack and a dog (clean) blanket along to check fits.

It came down to the RAM ProMaster chassis, which meant the WGO Travato 59G or 59K or the new Hymer Aktiv. I almost bought the Travato 59G.

The layout of the Aktiv is more open, packed with storage options and generally more suited to my needs. There are windows everywhere with an integrated window-frame mounted shade/screen. The queen-size bed is 30" off the ground, the shower/cassette toilet are a small footprint, the compressor refrigerator is a small, marine-style. The fresh water tank is 30 gallons, appealing for two hikers and a dog onboard. The fold-out table is small and anchored well. The cabinet finishes are simple and non-glossy. The gray water tank is the only external water exposure I could find. I prefer the standard RAM ProMaster upholstery in the Travato to the butter cream leather in the Aktiv. And, by dropping the black water tank, they can keep the manufacturers spare tire mounted under the rig in the standard position.

[Davydd]

I guess it depends on what you think four season means. I took delivery of my Advanced RV on January 26, 2015 and we boondocked in their parking lot. We put a half tank of water in the fresh water tank and proceeded to use our plumbing. So we weren't winterized. The first night outside it was 5 deg. F. overnight. The second night was in a Cracker Barrel in Elkhart, IN in about 12F weather. The third night was on a street in La Crosse, WI at about 15F. Then we were home a couple days in Minnesota plugged into shore power where the temperature dropped to -5F. The next night on the road was in a driveway in Leavenworth, KS still in well below freezing weather of about 18F. The next night was again in a Cracker Barrel in Albuquerque, NM and the temperature dropped to 0F overnight. That was a solid week of being in well below freezing temperatures 24/7. We did not hit above freezing until we got to Arizona. We didn't have to dump our tanks that week so that was not an issue. We did add pink anti-freeze in the black and grey tanks usually with each use.

We opted not to put a heat strip option on our black and grey tanks. Some people have done that on ARVs. I think anti-freeze would work better in a boondocking situation because you are rarely going to encounter shore power opportunities in the winter. The water lines are incased in an insulated wrap with the diesel-fired heated glycol return line that is still 160 deg. after exchanging for heat and hot water. The glycol return also runs in a groove the length of the fresh water tank.

ARV pays a great deal of attention insulating the body. They line the entire inside of the body, floor, walls, doors, ceiling and cab front with 100% coverage of Hushmat which is about 1/8" thick self-sticking rubberized mat with an aluminum foil facing. Not only does it help with insulation but it is a tremendous sound deadener. Every cavity is tightly filled, in my case, with blue denim insulation or now 2" thick Thinsulate. They have insulation curtains and their standard curtains are thick double-lined fabric that fit tight to cover all the windows. We have the standard curtains and they work fine for us. They have a few more tricks to keep the inside warm with insulated cab window covers and a snap on insulation to cover the ceiling fan. The sinks are HepVO valves and not traps. Right now our temperatures have been hovering around 0F at home and have been down to -20 this past month. I'm maintaining 64-73 degrees inside with just a plug in 1,500 watt electric ceramic heater. We have been keeping it warm because we are showing and selling our house and dump our cat in there during showings. We have electric radiant heat in our floor and have been keeping that on for the cat. I don't think it contributes much to heating but it does make things more comfortable.

We always had 24/7 120V AC power with our inverter on and 800ah lithium ion batteries. We did not have to resort to our Autogen auto start feature or have to idle to charge batteries in that first week. We always had enough battery reserve through driving and the second alternator. The diesel-fired Espar heat and hot water system worked great. It will keep you above 70F in all those low temperatures. The Cool Comfort electric glycol heating module with shore power is not much better than heat strips on air conditioners many have. I like the electric ceramic cube heater better.

[Keyne]

Davydd thank you for the detailed post; I like hearing how different manufacturers approach these things. Also you bring up a good question; insulation. I believe RT does minimal insulation but I wonder if the Hymer Aktiv is insulated?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Keyne

Davydd thank you for the detailed post; I like hearing how different manufacturers approach these things. Also you bring up a good question; insulation. I believe RT does minimal insulation but I wonder if the Hymer Aktiv is insulated?

The Aktiv does have dual pane windows as used in the Hymer Grand Canyon and I would hope it also has the same insulation as the Grand Canyon which is better than what Roadtrek uses.

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I guess it depends on what you think four season means.

Who says there is "No such thing as all season use" Davydd has one.....

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by DCHitt

Who says there is "No such thing as all season use" Davydd has one.....

There is a big difference between "all season use" and a "4 season coach".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj2nL9kpYpA

[Bruceper]

I think when people talk about four season use that they should specify the temperature ranges they are referring to, this would give other users a better idea of what is being referred to and would give a realistic goal.

Today the temperature here was -44 Celcius. Can it be done in a B? Sure, but it's going to be a lot of propane as the heater may not shut off. Frost and humidity will be killers at those temperatures. With frost and humidity comes ice buildup which will eventually melt and hide and cause mold.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Bruceper

I think when people talk about four season use that they should specify the temperature ranges they are referring to, this would give other users a better idea of what is being referred to and would give a realistic goal.

Today the temperature here was -44 Celcius. Can it be done in a B? Sure, but it's going to be a lot of propane as the heater may not shut off. Frost and humidity will be killers at those temperatures. With frost and humidity comes ice buildup which will eventually melt and hide and cause mold.

I agree, it is all relative and definitely a sliding scale. We don't ski camp or other winter season stuff in the van, and don't want to. 40* at the low end is fine with us if possible, but even the non 4 season B's are usually good to about 25* ovenight as long it gets above freezing during the day.

If we make a winter run from Minnesota to the south, we just winterize and get to weather (15*+F) for the first night, and the next day we are in the warm.

For the very minor benefit of tanks inside, heaters, etc, it just wouldn't be worth the losing of space, power use, complexity, etc, for us. Of course everyone is different in their needs

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by booster

I agree, it is all relative and definitely a sliding scale. We don't ski camp or other winter season stuff in the van, and don't want to. 40* at the low end is fine with us if possible, but even the non 4 season B's are usually good to about 25* ovenight as long it gets above freezing during the day.

If we make a winter run from Minnesota to the south, we just winterize and get to weather (15*+F) for the first night, and the next day we are in the warm.

For the very minor benefit of tanks inside, heaters, etc, it just wouldn't be worth the losing of space, power use, complexity, etc, for us. Of course everyone is different in their needs

I hate the cold-no less than 50 during day for me-overnight maybe 40 max.

[avanti]

Definitely a wide range of tastes here. We love going out for the occasional XC skiing trip in the mountains at 0F over night, using all systems. I admit it is something of a stunt, but it certainly can be done, even with our outside tanks and plumbing (properly heated and insulated). Great fun.

[DCHitt]

Originally Posted by avanti

Definitely a wide range of tastes here. We love going out for the occasional XC skiing trip in the mountains at 0F over night, using all systems. I admit it is something of a stunt, but it certainly can be done, even with our outside tanks and plumbing (properly heated and insulated). Great fun.

Yep. We did that in my younger years. Head for the Vermont ski area Friday night after work with the wife and kids. First ones at the lift in the morning. Overnight in the parking lot again, another day of skiing. Home Sunday night and ready for work Monday.

The weekend would take one bottle of propane (I carried two).

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Bruceper

I think when people talk about four season use that they should specify the temperature ranges they are referring to, this would give other users a better idea of what is being referred to and would give a realistic goal.

I thought I posted an experience lasting a week with continuous below freezing temperatures night and day described in detail and how the interior was maintained. I had the information because I keep a travel log.

Next weekend we are going up to Mike Wendland's Michigan UP Tahquamenon Falls SP Winter Freezeout with about 30 other Class Bs. Hardy souls and mostly Roadtreks of all years and makes will be there along with a few other brands.