Hymer Aktiv... our first RV!

[Keyne]

Obviously there is a huge price difference between ARV and a RT/Hymer product. However, from a business perspective a good inspection and drive would find many of these issues and should be done regardless of price... it is so much more expensive to have to manage post delivery quality issues and all the brand problems associated with them. Especially in this age of social media. It is just short sighted business practice but all too common unfortunately.

[mumkin]

Obviously there is no comparison between Advanced and Roadtrek/Hymer. My Leisure Travel also had no QC issues except that they forgot my special order curtain fabric. LOL

For those of us who have zero interest in a Sprinter, Advanced isn't an option even if we can afford one.

[ManWonder]

Originally Posted by Navanod

Cold water can either drawn from the fresh water tank or city water. The Hot water on the other hand is drawn from the fresh water tank only. So if you use a lot of hot water over a few days while hooked up, you will deplete your fresh water tank. That is what happened to us.

Wow... I didn't know that. Good to know! Thanks!

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by mumkin

For those of us who have zero interest in a Sprinter, Advanced isn't an option even if we can afford one.

Precisely. It's ironic that Advanced is so far into the leading edge for technology and build quality yet are resigned to do their upfitting on a Sprinter platform that at least in its current state, IMO, is going to go the way of the dodo bird. Promaster and Transit are eating MB alive.

[BBQ]

.

I don't think the Sprinter is going away.
They do not have the same volume as the ProMaster or the Transit,
but they never tried to be the volume king.

MB is building a new factory in USA,
and they are introducing new truck/van models
as well as new varients of the Sprinter platform.
They are the only 4x4 in town.

Sprinter is not going away.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

I don't think the Sprinter is going away.
They do not have the same volume as the ProMaster or the Transit,
but they never tried to be the volume king.

MB is building a new factory in USA,
and they are introducing new truck/van models
as well as new varients of the Sprinter platform.
They are the only 4x4 in town.

Sprinter is not going away.

Could be but I just don't see it that way. The Sprinter filled a void in the early 2000s but that advantage for them now longer exists with the competitive cost and modern design of other platforms. We looked at all the platforms before biting the bullet, including the Sprinter, the Promaster, the Transit and the long in the tooth GM. Color us old and cranky, but we surprised ourselves with deciding to buck the trend and go in the opposite direction for the fast disappearing Chevy which IMO is arguably one of the most reliable and easily maintained platforms ever built with a real honest to God turbo-free V8 engine!

[rockymtnb]

MBUSA first quarter Sprinter unit sales for the last four years have been:

2014: 4624
2015: 5559
2016: 5862
2017: 6191 units

Pretty stable, though minor growth, for the last four years. It's harder to analyze full year sales because MB combined Sprinter and Metris unit sales for a few months in 2015. So we won't see full year-over-year comparisons until the end of 2017. But overall the trend seems to be mild unit growth.

So BBQ appears to be correct, the Sprinter is not going away. And although MB Sprinter has ceded the larger fleet sales to Ford Transit, and a lesser extent Ram Promaster, they seem to have made it up in specialty markets favoring long wheelbase, high GVWR, factory 4WD, and similar enhancements.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

MBUSA first quarter Sprinter unit sales for the last four years have been:

2014: 4624
2015: 5559
2016: 5862
2017: 6191 units.

This is Sprinter nationwide?

[rockymtnb]

Yes, US nationwide unit sales for the first three months of each year. For comparison Ford sold 30,283 Transits in the same 2017 period while FCA sold 10,047 Promasters. But Sprinter sales are still much higher than earlier in the decade, for example in 2010 Q1 only 1487 Sprinters were sold.

Promaster sales have been running higher than normal in 2016 and the beginning of 2017 while FCA fulfills its contract with USPS for 12,452 extra units. Whereas Sprinter sales have been running light for the last few months because the I4 powertrain has been unavailable due to mandatory EPA re-certification of light duty diesel engines.

Interestingly with Transits the low roof fleet units are the biggest seller whereas Sprinter and Promaster buyers favor the high roof units.

[Davydd]

I wasn't trying to start a Sprinter argument. I was just pointing out you can get what you want in regard to QA if that is what you want.

I suspect Advanced RV can build on any platform they choose. The owner of the company just happened to believe the Sprinter platform was the best. It does sound like they may be expanding platforms. I understand they pre-ordered some short 144" wheelbase Sprinters but I have not seen anything yet as to what they intend. That I suspect probably was in response to customer inquiries. Who knows what the future will bring. After all MB is opening a USA factory soon and most likely will have all new body designs and I would suspect gasoline engines for the American market.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I would suspect gasoline engines for the American market.

I think this will be key. The economics of diesel no longer make much sense, and because of all the issues with emissions related reliability problems, the bloom is off the rose with diesel engines. The Sprinter has gotten more than its share of bad publicity in this area, due primarily to the sparse and expensive dealer network. Getting the dread "10 starts remaining" message in the middle of nowhere is a sobering and not uncommon experience. But, the underlying issue is the same for all modern diesels, it is not Sprinter-specific. If Sprinters remain diesel-only, then they are going to be in trouble, but I agree that this is not likely.

The truth is that, except for the dealer network issue, there isn't a dime's worth of difference among the large van alternatives. They are all good products, and which is "better" is largely a matter of taste and the requirements of specific applications. Mercedes can demand a small premium due to the halo around the 3-pointed star. Beyond that, it is a competitive but growing market and everybody will get their share. But only if a petrol engine materializes. I doubt that MB needs me to explain this to them.

[BBQ]

.

MB is building a whole new generation of engines.

Rumour has it that they are going to put a gasser in the Sprinter.

Of course nothing is for real until it hits the road.

[ClassB4Me]

I believe MB has signaled they are removing diesel from their US product lines and the next generation Sprinter would benefit for not having diesel if the duty cycle on the new gas engine is strong combined with a 9 /10 speed auto.

[Keyne]

I would love to have a gas Sprinter.

Also, if I were in the market for an ARV I would seriously consider the 144 chassis. I like the small size of our Agile and it is the perfect size for us. If the budget allowed I would have loved an ARV built van with the quality and tech features (lithium, alternator generator, integrated touch screen panel, ability to choose your own furnishings, ability to use in winter, etc.).

Our RT Agile has some of the ARV style features (UG, no propane, etc.) but of course it is not an ARV. We just got it so we shall see on the quality side but so far so good. I love not having a standard generator and have the ability to run appliances easily off the batteries. The 144 chassis size is perfect for where we live (downtown Boston) and how we are using it. We even got charcoal grey so we can look like Davydd (just kidding LOL).

[ClassB4Me]

I think ARV should test the market with a $150ish version of their product. Less customization but a base product with their quality control and design perspective. Not sure if their cost structures can support it but it would fill a gap in the market.

Above WGO offerings ---- More function and less flash, shorter WB and no duals. Pretty sure they could take some of RT's market share. The purchase experience alone would be worth it.

This is the segment I thought Hymer was reaching for (alas not sure where Hymer will be in three more years)

[avanti]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

I think ARV should test the market with a $150ish version of their product. Less customization but a base product with their quality control and design perspective. Not sure if their cost structures can support it but it would fill a gap in the market.

I don't see how they could possibly move successfully any farther than they already have in that direction. At the end of the day, ARV is a lifestyle company--they are set up for team-based construction, customization, and lots of R&D. This is the opposite of the kind of disciplined volume production you need to be competitive at a price point. They have nothing remotely resembling a true assembly line, and don't want one. They need huge gross margins to sustain this business model at their volumes. Who knows what their net margins are? It is not obvious to me that they would be able to be profitable at all without sharing overhead with their other business. It is also not obvious to me how much they care. They are clearly living their dream.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by avanti

I don't see how they could possibly move successfully any farther than they already have in that direction. At the end of the day, ARV is a lifestyle company--they are set up for team-based construction, customization, and lots of R&D. This is the opposite of the kind of disciplined volume production you need to be competitive at a price point. They have nothing remotely resembling a true assembly line, and don't want one. They need huge gross margins to sustain this business model at their volumes. Who knows what their net margins are? It is not obvious to me that they would be able to be profitable at all without sharing overhead with their other business. It is also not obvious to me how much they care. They are clearly living their dream.

I agree. I can't see any upside to moving to lower priced, less customized vehicles, and much higher production volumes for ARV. They are doing exactly what they need to do to address a niche market that is getting a great product at a higher price point that clearly is not deterring buyers.

[ClassB4Me]

Great insight. I am surprised there are enough high-end customers to support their R&D, salaries and overhead costs consistently. There is a lot to be said for a more consistent volume of sales (even though the margins would be slimmer).

[Davydd]

Advanced RV just built a short 2500 144" WB Sprinter for a customer that will hold four bicycles. It seems pretty stripped down with a pull out porta pottie to be used as an active weekend B. I posted a Youtube link in another thread or you can see it on "B"ing in an Advanced RV on Facebook.

ARV has stated many times they have no interest in mass production or dealer sales. They are proving they can respond to customer desires. I'll learn more when I go to Advanced Fest in early May as to what they are up to currently. They put on a good informative presentation of seminars with guest presenters if you want to learn cutting edge. Attendees are ARV owner fanboys, potential customers and quite a few who are just interested but probably won't buy.

[Navanod]