Hymer Aktiv?

[gregmchugh]

Clearly intended for a family with kids here are some typical front beds on another Hymer model...

https://www.hymer.com/en/models/moto...chlafraum.html

[booster]

I have to agree with those that say chasing the young family market is not a great idea. Some of the areas we like to go to have lots of families with kids in them, with the very largest amount of them with popup trailers, usually pulled with a minivan. The minivan is always packed full, bikes on the trailer, maybe a kayak too. Many of them have stopped by over the years to ask about the Roadtrek and to look inside, but none have ever said they wished they could get one that would sleep them and their kids. Many have said that they would love to get one once the kids were gone, though.

I would think it would be tough on most families of normal means to invest in a non daily use vehicle that probably would still need to pull a trailer for stuff. Most already have the minivan, so they are into camping, with quite a bit of room, for peanuts, in comparison to a B.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by booster

I have to agree with those that say chasing the young family market is not a great idea. Some of the areas we like to go to have lots of families with kids in them, with the very largest amount of them with popup trailers, usually pulled with a minivan. The minivan is always packed full, bikes on the trailer, maybe a kayak too. Many of them have stopped by over the years to ask about the Roadtrek and to look inside, but none have ever said they wished they could get one that would sleep them and their kids. Many have said that they would love to get one once the kids were gone, though.

I would think it would be tough on most families of normal means to invest in a non daily use vehicle that probably would still need to pull a trailer for stuff. Most already have the minivan, so they are into camping, with quite a bit of room, for peanuts, in comparison to a B.

I agree it's a long shot to market an affordable B for a small family. The best option would be a pop-up top bed on a Hymer Yellowstone. https://www.hymercar.com/en/models/h...e-gallery.html

But it will be a very expensive B judging by the 100K asking price of the new "AKTIV" B in town!








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[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

So, how many urban well paid active young people from Seattle, Silicon Valley, Boston, Chicago, Research Triangle, Southern California, etc. do you need find who would want one of these and who can afford the $100,000+ price for it to be a success?

I will suggest that there are enough of these people who currently are well outside the current RV or do-it-yourself van communities to make these Hymer vans successful if they start targeting these people with the right marketing approach. They are not at RV shows or at any of the places you see families camping in less expensive trailers or Class C units. They have never even considered buying a typical RV, even the Class B vans currently available. I think there is not enough thinking outside the current box and I wonder if the people at Roadtrek or their current dealers are really the right people to handle the marketing of these vans.

I couldn't agree more with your opinion about defining a new market for urban "yuppies". I'm looking forward for more design-oriented customers being part of a game-changing quantum leap in the industry. But I also totally agree it would be wise if RT's corporate culture could also make that bold move toward this new market with more professionalism. Not like the pathetic launch of the AKTIV. They are testing the waters, but maybe not in the right pond!

[booster]

The young urban thing is catching on pretty big around here (Minneapolis and St Paul). Many of the them don't even have vehicles, or even drive, and the urban housing has very little parking, which they are talking about allowing even less of. With the inconvenience of parking, I wonder how owning a B would compare to renting one as wanted, when you figure in hassle factor.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by booster

The young urban thing is catching on pretty big around here (Minneapolis and St Paul). Many of the them don't even have vehicles, or even drive, and the urban housing has very little parking, which they are talking about allowing even less of. With the inconvenience of parking, I wonder how owning a B would compare to renting one as wanted, when you figure in hassle factor.

You're right. I imagine the answer would be an "RV2Go" dynamic rental company to cater to this crowd!

[BobB]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

But it will be a very expensive B judging by the 100K asking price of the new "AKTIV" B in town!

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Everyone is focusing on this $100k number like it is unthinkable.

I don't agree that it will be a very expensive B. Maybe an expensive ProMaster based B, but not if you are looking at all Class Bs

MSRP (the "starting" price) of ProMaster Based Bs

Winnebago Travato - $89k
Roadtrek Zion - $89k
Roadtrek Zion SRT - $84k
Roadtrek Simplicity - $79k
Pleasureway Lexor - $102k

When you go to Sprinter based production Class Bs, MSRP (the "starting" price) of Sprinter Based Bs

Winnebago ERA - $120k
Roadtrek Agile - $121k
Roadtrek Adventurous series - $127k - $129k
Pleasureway Plateau series - $129k
Pleasureway Ascent - $118k

FYI - Yes, Safari Condo has lower starting prices (if you convert to USD), but for a US one, you have to buy your PM, drive it to Canada, leave it for them to convert and drive home - not quite what I would consider, IMO, "production" RVs.

[Davydd]

Greg and George, Why are you so quick to jump on Roadtrek's Canadian management team? By all indications from last year's evidently ill received Grand Canyon launch and now this Aktiv launch the impetus has come from the Europen Hymer Group execs.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by booster

The young urban thing is catching on pretty big around here (Minneapolis and St Paul). Many of the them don't even have vehicles, or even drive, and the urban housing has very little parking, which they are talking about allowing even less of. With the inconvenience of parking, I wonder how owning a B would compare to renting one as wanted, when you figure in hassle factor.

Expanding the Class B rental market would be a nice boost for Class B builders.

We often talk about the $$$$ involved in buying a Class B but storage and parking noted by Booster and TIME to use it or make adequate use of it to justify owning it would likely be as big of an impediment to sales to younger professionals.

Renting one for one or two trips per year with no maintenance, parking, payments, depreciation etc. to worry about might be all they'd want or need.

Some sort of Airbnb like rent-a-B-van app would make the process more trendy. Who has time to fill out a web form or make a call nowadays.

[Davydd]

Canadreams out west especially in the Jasper/Banff area had a big rental presence with Pleasure-way Excels. They mirrored the Bavy Boomers when I saw them.

The Jucy renters seem to be the younger set. I've seen a few Jucys this current trip.

Advanced RV has a rental program based in Ohio and Southern California. They have sold a few ARVs to people who first rented and they have been turning over their initial rentals by refurbishing them and updating them for buyers wanting an ARV at a good price and probably more importantly now instead of waiting.

Anyway the majority of rentals with gawdawful graphics like a U-Haul truck are ugly short boxy Class Cs by CruiseAmerica. They are everywhere and almost dominate the national parks.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Greg and George, Why are you so quick to jump on Roadtrek's Canadian management team? By all indications from last year's evidently ill received Grand Canyon launch and now this Aktiv launch the impetus has come from the Europen Hymer Group execs.

From RT site:

"Erwin Hymer Group will rely on the existing Roadtrek Motorhomes Inc. management team in order to introduce further EHG brands – first and foremost HymerCar – into the North American market."

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Greg and George, Why are you so quick to jump on Roadtrek's Canadian management team? By all indications from last year's evidently ill received Grand Canyon launch and now this Aktiv launch the impetus has come from the Europen Hymer Group execs.

I don't recall jumping on current management but I did express skepticism that current Roadtrek personnel and marketing methods would be the best choice for the Hymer vans. If potential customer preferences are only being collected from the traditional Class B community, at RV shows for instance, I think they will be getting a very biased set of data. Roadtrek surely understands the current buyers. I would hope that the Hymer marketing is collecting data from a wider source of data than the current buyer base...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

I couldn't agree more with your opinion about defining a new market for urban "yuppies". I'm looking forward for more design-oriented customers being part of a game-changing quantum leap in the industry. But I also totally agree it would be wise if RT's corporate culture could also make that bold move toward this new market with more professionalism. Not like the pathetic launch of the AKTIV. They are testing the waters, but maybe not in the right pond!

I agree completely that they need to look in a different pond to fish for Hymer buyers.

[Davydd]

I bet Jim Hammill has probably told those Hymer Group Germans they are fishing in the wrong pond or any North American pond with that cassette toilet in a $100,000 RV.

[gregmchugh]

I will readily admit that I would not buy an Aktiv and it would be a waste of time and resources to try to market it to me.

I suggest that this could apply to many others here and maybe the majority of current Class B owners or Class B wannabes.

I do think there is a untapped market that exists and very little may be currently known about this market...

I guess time will tell...

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I would hope that the Hymer marketing is collecting data from a wider source of data than the current buyer base...

Before I retired a few years ago, I had a long career working in the computer industry in Silicon Valley. I (and probably several of my colleagues) thought that all RVs looked like the three shown below in the first image. Even though I tent camped a lot, I thought that RVs were too big, too ugly, too flimsy and got ridiculously low gas mileage as they waddled down the road. It didn't matter what the price was, I didn't want one. I didn't go to RV shows. I didn't visit RV web sites. I passed by every RV and RV dealer without giving it a thought.

As time went on, I knew that it was getting to be nearly impossible to park my regular car on the street in the city. Some folks I knew simply gave up driving and came to enjoy public transit and renting cars when needed. Those who continued to drive got smaller or hybrid cars for their high gas mileage. I bought a bicycle to get around. My friends didn't think twice about paying $1 million for a small, overpriced home in the Silicon Valley. Several of them could probably easily afford a $100,000 vehicle.

I was exactly the person that Hymer/Roadtrek and several other companies want to attract. Did they market to me then? No. Do they market them to me now? No. I have to search for info about them.

I wasn't interested at all until I saw a Sprinter-based Airstream Interstate that just happened to be parked on the street in a small town I visited (like the one shown below in the second image). It had one simple, elegant stripe instead of crazy multicolored swirls. It was shorter than the monster RVs I'd seen too often. It also had a Mercedes badge, and that meant quality to me. I had no idea that there were motorhomes like that. I was impressed enough to start thinking about owning or maybe renting one.

From what I can gather, it seems like lots of RV companies are completely depending on random chance like that to reach new markets. That just doesn't make sense. Instead, they focus on "preaching to the choir" instead of actually doing outreach to new potential customers.

[wincrasher]

I'd agree with you SiennaGuy. Many, many people get interested because they encounter one in the wild. I can't tell you how many have said to me "I didn't know they made these."

I'd say the tastes of the B crowd are very different than the mainstream RV crowd. Note that all the manufacturers have dropped all their swirly stripes and the interiors are going to more modern, "ikea-like" interiors.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I bet Jim Hammill has probably told those Hymer Group Germans they are fishing in the wrong pond or any North American pond with that cassette toilet in a $100,000 RV.

I think the cassette toilet is one of many cultural clash expected with the arrival of the EHG in North America. It will be interesting to see what will be the outcome of merging cultures. In the Fit RV video, the Hymer spokesperson said very clearly that they would offer the Black tank as an option [

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Byx...ature=youtu.be

]. They tried it anyway because I suppose it means redesigning the bathroom shower tray and fittings to fit a standard toilet and it's easier to upfit the van without a black tank under the chassis. They must have said it's worth trying it. They can always offer the black as an option later.

Again, I think (like some of you do) that EHG has a brighter future in NA with compact Cs than with their Bs. Harder to switch the production line to a black tank on a C. So they buy time, test the market, test the management, build the plant, reassure the customers that it won't be a Hymer invasion. They don't loose any money taking their time as long as RT keeps its customer base and JH is a good "lieutenant" to defend it. They have no interest is rushing in new products. They figure they will still be enough customers among the 10 000 baby boomers that retire every day! Very entertaining to follow !

[gregmchugh]

I suspect it is much easier to set up Class B production for Hymers in Kitchener for this initial phase into North America vs setting up production for the small Class C models. I also agree that the small Class C Hymer models will be their breakthrough products and it appears they will have the market to themselves unless someone else comes along with similar models but who else has them ready and waiting to go besides Hymer.

Personally, they could sell me a Hymer ML-T 4x4 Sprinter today if they had them available over here...

[BobB]

I would be very happy with one of the Hymer Van series