Hymer Aktiv?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

It is amazing that the people in Europe, Australia, and New Zealand seem to have no problem handling cassettes but it is a real problem over here...

We have way more and better campground infrastructure for dumping. We really don't need cassettes. Then you have to dump your gray water anyway and I don't ascribe to the belief you can do that anywhere because there would be abusers at the same rate of cigarette butt disposers and dog walkers who all swear to a T they are responsible people.

BTW, I have watched a couple of German RVs disposing of gray water. It was tedious here in the states for them. They didn't have hoses. They drained into a bucket and hauled to a dump station the same way as the cassettes, only numerous times. If they did all that at a dump station they would PO people waiting.

If you can easily design a dump system be it gravity or macerator in a Class B I think cassettes are not a sensible solution. Seriously, cassettes are not exactly new to the American market. Inexpensive trailers and truck campers have used them for years.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

We have way more and better campground infrastructure for dumping. We really don't need cassettes. Then you have to dump your gray water anyway and I don't ascribe to the belief you can do that anywhere because there would be abusers at the same rate of cigarette butt disposers and dog walkers who all swear to a T they are responsible people.

BTW, I have watched a couple of German RVs disposing of gray water. It was tedious here in the states for them. They didn't have hoses. They drained into a bucket and hauled to a dump station the same way as the cassettes, only numerous times. If they did all that at a dump station they would PO people waiting.

If you can easily design a dump system be it gravity or macerator in a Class B I think cassettes are not a sensible solution. Seriously, cassettes are not exactly new to the American market. Inexpensive trailers and truck campers have used them for years.

Maybe it would make sense for those with European vans traveling over here to carry a hose to dump the grey water at the dump station...

Clearly, cassette toilets are not for everyone but I think there is a group of buyers for a van like the Aktiv who would mostly use the van on weekends and not be using campgrounds that would prefer dumping a cassette...

I guess time will tell how many buyers accept the cassette toilet...

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Maybe it would make sense for those with European vans traveling over here to carry a hose to dump the grey water at the dump station...

Clearly, cassette toilets are not for everyone but I think there is a group of buyers for a van like the Aktiv who would mostly use the van on weekends and not be using campgrounds that would prefer dumping a cassette...

I guess time will tell how many buyers accept the cassette toilet...

Maybe those Europeans had no idea what they would encounter. I suspect there are a lot more Europeans shipping their RVs here to travel than Americans shipping RVs to Europe to travel. If we did, we might encounter just the opposite problem with our gravity dumps.

[BBQ]

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Do you think cassette toilets will speed up the production and lower the cost of RVs?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Do you think cassette toilets will speed up the production and lower the cost of RVs?

Yes, I would think so...

[wincrasher]

The benefit of the cassette is that if frees up limited space under an already crowded small van. I doubt a prepackaged Thetford cassette toilet system is any cheaper than a traditional commode plus black tank and associated piping. It may actually be more expensive in the end as you have to expend the labor to cut a service door in the side of the van.

But if you look closely at the Aktiv, what is does is allow, not only a bigger gray tank under the van, but also a complete bathroom is contained in a very small space. With the swivel head and drop down sink, you still have a spaceous, square shower cubicle.

Otherwise, a full traditional bathroom is a tough item to squeeze in a 19 foot van like this and still have a seating area and a large bed.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

The benefit of the cassette is that if frees up limited space under an already crowded small van. I doubt a prepackaged Thetford cassette toilet system is any cheaper than a traditional commode plus black tank and associated piping. It may actually be more expensive in the end as you have to expend the labor to cut a service door in the side of the van.

But if you look closely at the Aktiv, what is does is allow, not only a bigger gray tank under the van, but also a complete bathroom is contained in a very small space. With the swivel head and drop down sink, you still have a spaceous, square shower cubicle.

Otherwise, a full traditional bathroom is a tough item to squeeze in a 19 foot van like this and still have a seating area and a large bed.

Not to trot out my hobby horse, but if you are short on tank space, simply using a combined gray/black tank is the way to go. I will NEVER understand the irrational attachment to this separate-tank thing.

[gregmchugh]

Looks like Hymer North America had a successful trip to Hershey, Jim Hammill's summary...

-----

My Hershey show Report for everyone's general amusement.

We had a record show. Roadtreks sold the most we have ever sold and we simply can't say enough about the positive response. Our dealer, Fretz RV and Roadtrek staff worked closely and it was simply fun, and great. Every sale was like a celebration of the start of a new lifestyle. It was joyous. We sold every model. Almost evenly.

The Hymer Aktiv, had a fantastic start to sales, selling out and we started booking the units we are building on the line. We got some superb feedback from folks and we sold a ton of them. It's going to be a great run. Our new dealer Alpinhaus was so professional and fantastic it was just superb.

The Hymer Touring had its show debut, and it was astounding. Thousands of people came to see it, and I can't even guess how many people put down 1000 dollars to join the list to buy the first ones we are building. That list is HUGE.

We will likely set up a website for people to sign up and make a deposit (like a tesla) because demand was so high.

Both teams, and yours truly are happy, proud, and exhausted.

Cheers

Jim

[Sailedaway]

I saw the new Aktiv at the show. Both the road trek and hymer people were there. Promaster chassis. Very European in feel and layout. But had the exact bed configuration that I was seeking. Perfectly. Sort of like the Travato 59 g but bigger easier and more comfortable. New road trek eco trek system as well. 90-100K. They still don't have all the bugs out and aren't certain how to close off the cab at night. No spare tire. One critical omission is no outside h/c shower. I would consider it. Love the bed. The storage under it is super.

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

... I doubt a prepackaged Thetford cassette toilet system is any cheaper than a traditional commode plus black tank and associated piping. It may actually be more expensive in the end as you have to expend the labor to cut a service door in the side of the van.

Correct. On units such as Sportsmobile that offer a choice of cassette or blackwater tank toilets the Thetford cassette costs a bit more than traditional gravity dump but less than blackwater with macerator. As Wincrasher notes the cassette does allow for a wider range of interior layout options on a Class B van.

Having had units with both traditional blackwater and cassette toilets I can attest it's not a matter of one being overall better (or less expensive) than another. Rather it's more a matter of usage, campsite preference (BLM/FS basic vs. RV facilities), and travel schedules.

Cassette units are well suited for remote trips away from developed campgrounds and RV facilities, as the cassette can be dumped in any toilet. It's also a good option for working couples/families whose schedule must fit around week trips or extended weekends, as the unit can be dumped at home without waiting in long Sunday lines at the RV dump station. It also keeps the toilet completely separate from wash/shower greywater - we just empty that on the lawn at home (just don't pee in the shower!)

Conversely the traditional blackwater system is great for campsites with hookups or dump facilities, and well suited for retired RV'ers who can arrange travel and dump schedules at off-peak times.

It's not a black or white issue - it's more a matter of matching the appropriate system type with the expected usage.

[thorn]

I was there Sunday and didn't see any Roadtreks at Hershey, just the Hymer Activ and trailers. The rep said the Activ was the Grand Canyon which didn't seem possible as the GC is on a Sprinter.

Rep said there are two GC's, US and European, w/ the US one called the Acriv - still not believing him.

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

Correct. On units such as Sportsmobile that offer a choice of cassette or blackwater tank toilets the Thetford cassette costs a bit more than traditional gravity dump but less than blackwater with macerator. As Wincrasher notes the cassette does allow for a wider range of interior layout options on a Class B van.

Having had units with both traditional blackwater and cassette toilets I can attest it's not a matter of one being overall better (or less expensive) than another. Rather it's more a matter of usage, campsite preference (BLM/FS basic vs. RV facilities), and travel schedules.

Cassette units are well suited for remote trips away from developed campgrounds and RV facilities, as the cassette can be dumped in any toilet. It's also a good option for working couples/families whose schedule must fit around week trips or extended weekends, as the unit can be dumped at home without waiting in long Sunday lines at the RV dump station. It also keeps the toilet completely separate from wash/shower greywater - we just empty that on the lawn at home (just don't pee in the shower!)

Conversely the traditional blackwater system is great for campsites with hookups or dump facilities, and well suited for retired RV'ers who can arrange travel and dump schedules at off-peak times.

It's not a black or white issue - it's more a matter of matching the appropriate system type with the expected usage.

^^^This.

And if it wasn't easy for me to dump my tanks at home (shhh, don't tell the HOA), I'd be mounting a cassette in my coach.

Eric

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by thorn

I was there Sunday and didn't see any Roadtreks at Hershey, just the Hymer Activ and trailers. The rep said the Activ was the Grand Canyon which didn't seem possible as the GC is on a Sprinter.

Rep said there are two GC's, US and European, w/ the US one called the Acriv - still not believing him.

There were two separate display areas, one for Hymer and one for Roadtrek so you happened to miss seeing the Roadtrek display.

The Hymer Grand Canyon has been a European model on the Ducato for awhile and a second version of this model on the Sprinter was introduced in Europe recently and is shown earlier in the thread.

The Aktiv on the Promaster being sold here is the Grand Canyon model sold in Europe on the Ducato with some minor changes and some new options.

It is not known if or when the Grand Canyon model on the Sprinter will be offered over here.

The salesman seems to be giving the straight story...

[Sailedaway]

Correct. On the program HYmer was in A17 marked as Roadtrek but they redirected me to the corner under the big red balloon - after I marveled at the wonderful bed/storage arrangement in the AKtiv. Roadtrek had a very extensive showing with all kinds of new models or reconfigurations - Simplicity for one. There were actual Road Trek people all over the display and it was cool to be able to dialogue and learn from the factory reps rather than hi pressure sales reps. Their info was valid and they were in no hurry to move you along in any direction. 4 or 5 of us sat with a great rep from Calgary Canada in the bed area of the new 210 discussing all of its features in great detail. Very nice and spacious B unit. They let me drive one - it was a bit clunky but not that different from the 190. Parked it, u-turned it, backed it into a regular parking lot spot pretty easily - and it fit between the white lines - and I am very new at this. Really worth considering although the show price was $25k above the Aktiv.

Thank you for the toilet cassett info. I would not have even known to ask. Do those cassettes hold enough? How limited compared to the balck water storage in the 210 for example?

Jim Hammil was walking around the site on Saturday - very friendly and very available to anyone who wanted.

[gregmchugh]

The Roadtrek Black Tanks are 10 gal and the typical Thetford cassettes hold 5 gallons but not positive which specific toilet is in the Aktiv so that should be checked, so the black tank is twice as large...

[booster]

4 or 5 of us sat with a great rep from Calgary Canada in the bed area of the new 210 discussing all of its features in great detail.

There is a new 210? Or just that it was new as opposed to used?

[Sailedaway]

It was not a used 210 and had several features new. The one I liked was the bed arrangement.NO power sofa with Ottomans. Fixed U shape affair - smooth mattress. Could be two very sizable twins or a large single bed. That is where we were all sitting. But the storage underneath accessible from the back was incredible. No mechanisms or anything. Just wide open under there. And of course Lithium batteries and the newest EcoTrek system with Volt Start - anyone care to comment on the comparison between this Roadtrek power direction as opposed to the battery/Onan Generator approach to power use and availability? As a newbie I am confused as to which may be the best alternative. Air conditioning is a concern to me in very hot places at night for example. Also they are now using the compression type fridges - no propane. Comments on comparing this too would be great. The 210 has 5 cu where the 190 has 3.

[Sailedaway]

I know it is a difficult question - but i am wondering how long five gallons would last for a couple. It sounds like very little volume? Don't want to be emptying it every day or two.

Is it a really uncomfortable affair to empty the cassette? Do you dump it right into a toilet? Where else could you dump it?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Sailedaway

I know it is a difficult question - but i am wondering how long five gallons would last for a couple. It sounds like very little volume? Don't want to be emptying it every day or two.

Is it a really uncomfortable affair to empty the cassette? Do you dump it right into a toilet? Where else could you dump it?

I expect this varies a lot between owners, our 10 gal black tank typically can go 4-5 days between dumping depending on amount of usage. You do need to have a reasonable amount of liquid to the tank to allow efficient dumping and to avoid solid buildup in the tank.

Cassettes can be emptied at dump stations, in pit toilets, regular toilets, and sewer cleanouts.

You can also dump your black tank in a sewer cleanout at home if it is handy to do so. With the macerator you can dump into a sewer cleanout that is uphill from the van...

[wincrasher]

One of my european friends told me that they typically only use the loo in their van during the night or emergencies. Most of the time they use the campground bathrooms as they are usually very nice and clean.