Hymer Aktiv?

[GeorgeB]

I think it is always an advantage for the customer when the market offers more diversity. Why can't the AKTIV have a cassette toilet? If you don't think you will like it, don't buy it. I won't. I definitely prefer having the luxury of full tank systems but I'm sure there's a lot of campers out there who would prefer the cassette *. There's enough new B models to choose from, but I would love to see the full spectrum of Hymer Bs offered in North America: with a pop-up top, with longitudinal beds, with the short 5.40m (18') model and even the compact class C. But will it happen soon. I have doubts.

The more I see the AKTIV, specially that MikeW pathetic video (I agree with ClassB4Me!) the less I have the feeling that RT will be able to build it and market it well. When visiting the RT factory after ordering our Agile, I wasn't impressed by the very primitive facilities but it's the attitude of the staff that turned me off. The lack of passion and expertise was appalling.

* Only some of the high-end luxury class A in Europe have the option of a black tank (Niesmann+Bischoff Flair) and I suspect it is not only for cultural/hygienic preferences but also because of weight issues. The majority of RVs in Europe stay within the 3500Kg limit because you need a special license if you drive a heavier vehicle. So smaller global tank sizes, smaller fridge, no solar, no gen, lighter materials, no AC etc.

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Did anyone notice the surroundings inside the factory when they were showing the cassette tank removal? It saddens me that the culture in Roadtrek thinks this is a good reflection of the company, the workers, and the product.

I took some screenshots of the video to prove to myself that the surroundings were (being diplomatic) "problematic." I, too, saw the cabinet drawers, what looks like parts and tools in disarray, and what looks like trash on the floor. I got concerned, however, when I saw similar clutter around the emergency exit door in the background. This isn't a matter of "mom and pop" production. It's dumb and possibly dangerous conditions for anybody. I've seen several "mom and pop" mechanics working in much cleaner and more organized conditions.

I also kept hearing my mother say, "You'd better clean up. Company's coming over!"

[booster]

It has been a while since we took our tour (2009) but that doesn't look like the production floor, as it was then anyway. The work stations weren't parallel to walls like that, all were nose in bays going both ways off a loop driving aisle.

When we were there, it was mentioned that they had a secret prototype area (at the time, they were just finishing the Ideal in that area we were given hints of). The layout of the room in the pix may be that area, and prototype areas are usually not very optimized or organized, so possible.

That said, the production floor was pretty much chaos, not very clean, very disorganized, and certainly not anywhere near modern manufacturing standards. The had on Chevy 190 as a demo, and the quality of it was horrible with terrible fits and finishes.

[gregmchugh]

Another option besides a black tank, cassette toilet, or composting toilet would be the resurrection of the GMC Motorhome Thermasan system that could be used to incinerate the liquid waste from a combined grey/black tank macerator in the vehicle exhaust system. It was approved by the EPA at the time but maybe not allowed now with the tighter air pollution standards. Maybe enough urea in the waste to handle the DEF function for diesels too. Not so good for long term boondocking, you can only incinerate the waste above 35 mph. Where is this type of innovation for waste disposal these days...

http://www.gmcgreatlakers.org/GMCGre...om%20X7425.pdf

[DCHitt]

I love the idea of pumping the Pee into the DEF tank.

[wincrasher]

LOL. Your RV smells like farts, dude.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Oh yeah, almost forgot - guess where your used toilet paper goes? In a bucket you keep somewhere in the bathroom, cause it can't go down in with the poo. Classy!

I was on a very nice boat in the bay area and the wife had a dispenser of scented micro baggies for your personal toilet paper which then went into a one-way can. She said she had zero interest in the 'bucket of shame' as she called it.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

I was on a very nice boat in the bay area and the wife had a dispenser of scented micro baggies for your personal toilet paper which then went into a one-way can. She said she had zero interest in the 'bucket of shame' as she called it.

LOL. I've chartered a few boats where basically they did that. I guess after a while they grew tired of the trouble and expense of repairing the macerator.

My boat's toilet has a macerator in the bottom of the unit. It grinds up everything and sends it down the tube to the waste tank. At the marina, there is a suction hose that basically vacuums out the contents of the tank. I also have an additional macerator that can suck the tank out and pump it overboard when you are offshore.

I decided I'm not going to sweat worrying about the macerator. You can always pay to have it repaired. I buy RV style toilet paper that disintegrates pretty well. You have to ban "female" products from the potty. I may put up a little sign warning the ladies I'll make them walk the plank if they put anything like that down the head.

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Why wouldn't Wendland make a video?

The more appropriate question is why would he? Did he even pause to think that this is no longer a Roadtrek-only facility but was acquired by Hymer GmbH & Co.

Hymer representatives from day one said they will be offering the Grand Canyon / ACTIV as a premium product. I will bet you $1 that corporate Hymer executives in Germany would not be pleased that their 1st product introduced to the NA market was presented that way.

I've worked for several Fortune 500 companies and there were very strict rules governing the taking of pictures or videos in production areas and products for a reason let-alone publishing them for world-wide consumption.

Why spend a lot of marketing dollars promoting the product and presenting a positive image to potential customers to have it undermined (showing the vehicle and NA production facilities in that condition)? CCOHS (OSHA equivalent in Canada) would have some concerns about the conditions based on that impromptu video.

HYMER Marketing Still


Versus


For amusement, I'm going to thank them (Hymer GmbH) for the sneak-peek introduction of the ACTIV and Hymer NA facilities along with the Youtube video link.

[gregmchugh]

I know you guys are knawing at the bit for the latest Erwin Hymer Group NA news...

Clear road ahead; Kitchener motorhome manufacturer poised for growth

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

Hymer representatives from day one said they will be offering the Grand Canyon / ACTIV as a premium product. I will bet you $1 that corporate Hymer executives in Germany would not be pleased that their 1st product introduced to the NA market was presented that way.

Well... they posted a link to the video on the Go Hymer Facebook page...

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by ClassB4Me

For amusement, I'm going to thank them (Hymer GmbH) for the sneak-peek introduction of the ACTIV and Hymer NA facilities along with the Youtube video link.

Let me see, we were supposed to forgive them for the original AKTIV website that had the wrong product name and all sorts of other blunders that any decent proofreader would have caught. If I recall, they said that it had been put up too early, or before it was finished or something like that. Now we're supposed to forgive them for the way that the production facility looked in a video done by someone who I assume is a paid consultant. They apparently don't see any problems with this video because they promote it on their Facebook page. If they continue this way, I can't help but wonder what we'll be asked to forgive in the future. I, as a consumer, would really prefer not to have to do quality control for their marketing and possibly their products. Initially, I was optimistic that their German precision would heighten the competition but now, I'm having my doubts.

[gregmchugh]

In my view, I find some of the expectations of the speed with which the former Roadtrek would transform into a new entity completely aligned with Erwin Hymer Group culture, practices, processes, philosophy, etc., to be somewhat unrealistic. As of tomorrow they are two months into the acquisition.

There have been observable improvements in customer support recently, no doubt as a result of the acquisition and something that can be done rapidly through reallocation of existing resources.

Is the marketing activity in Kitchener aligned with the Hymer Europe expectations for what they would like to see? I would expect not based on this incident. Will there be corrective action taken? I would expect so. I would expect they are in the process of transplanting a few European Hymer people into Kitchener in key areas, such as marketing and manufacturing, to help speed the transformation.

Has the manufacturing facility transformed into a Hymer level facility? Of course not.

Have the attitudes of the production level employees which seemed to be lacking in tours that happened years ago improved as the result of a better outlook for their future at Roadtrek? I would think so and Mike's video did not show otherwise.

As long as I continue to see positive changes, I remain optimistic that the transformation will happen and there will at some point be a Erwin Hymer Group NA that has the same reputation as their European counterpart...

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

Let me see, we were supposed to forgive them for the original AKTIV website that had the wrong product name and all sorts of other blunders that any decent proofreader would have caught. If I recall, they said that it had been put up too early, or before it was finished or something like that. Now we're supposed to forgive them for the way that the production facility looked in a video done by someone who I assume is a paid consultant. They apparently don't see any problems with this video because they promote it on their Facebook page. If they continue this way, I can't help but wonder what we'll be asked to forgive in the future. I, as a consumer, would really prefer not to have to do quality control for their marketing and possibly their products. Initially, I was optimistic that their German precision would heighten the competition but now, I'm having my doubts.

As a VW TDI owner, I guess this confirms the reputation for german quality and attention to detail was a myth or never really existed in the 1st place. I now wonder what does Hymer plan to bring to the table to warrant a premium price over a similar Winnebago product.

[mumkin]

Wow... talk about unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky, expectations of immediate perfection.

Or perhaps something else?

[GeorgeB]

Like JH insisted in his interview with MW*, it's been only six weeks since the acquisition by Hymer, so ...nothing has changed. I guess they are in tough position of announcing big bold changes for Hymer and reassuring their actual customer base that nothing will change for Roadtrek.

So it's the same dull offices with dull employees doing dull clerical work. Reminds me of the dull visit I did at their plant. No new designers in sight. No new slick facilities. No new employees. They are all waiting for the Hymer Armada to come in. They also want to continue selling their actual vehicles. For a traditionnaly slow moving industry such a big change in corporate strategy is better done in a careful way. They can't ship 1000 new vehicles accross the continent like car manufacturer are able to do. So don't expect the new EHG management to be instantly Hyperactive!

*

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xFUFGM9vP2Q

.

[gregmchugh]

Roadtrek has a large and loyal customer base who are, in the majority, very happy with the company and not filled with the cynicism seen here towards the company and the management. Of course these current customers need to have some reassurance that the Roadtrek that they love and admire is not going to disappear with the acquisition. They will continue to be buying Roadtreks and keeping the revenue coming in during the longer term addition of Hymer branded vehicles to the North American market.

Not sure why one would think that the mainline Roadtrek employees are not capable of producing high quality innovative products and that they should be sent out the door. One of the things that likely attracted Hymer to Roadtrek was the availability of an existing group of experienced employees. Do you think that these employees were the cause of Roadtreks inconsistent quality results over the last few years? Do you think that starting over from scratch with a new set of employees would get Hymer to their goals quicker than simply working with the current employees to bring about the needed changes?

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Wow... talk about unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky, expectations of immediate perfection.

Or perhaps something else?

Mumkin....

I think you are projecting expectations that I am not placing on HYMER.
When did wanting a company to look it's best in public become a criticism of a company or it's staff?

If it were your company / home, would you be comfortable for someone taking pictures / videos and placing them on the Internet when it is not looking it's best?

First impressions matter!!! I know it takes time to carry out an acquisition and upfit a legacy Roadtrek facility to process a Hymer product.

I feel they should never have posted the video if the factory was not presentable and the vehicle that was driven had parts missing. For many, this will be a person's first look at the ACTIV and Hymer as a brand in the United States.

My statement is more about a change in German culture I am observing where attention to detail and overbuilding a product use to be the norm. I lived in Germany for several years and maybe this is clouding my opinion. The phrase German Pride was heard often in manufacturing circles.

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Wow... talk about unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky, expectations of immediate perfection.

Or perhaps something else?

Proofreading marketing material and making corrections on a web site before releasing it takes a few hours. Cleaning up a work area on a shop floor before recording a video takes around the same amount of time. Neither task requires major corporate planning.

I guess I have unrealistic expectations for Hymer and Roadtrek. These things are just too difficult and pie-in-the-sky because a pen and a broom require generations of experience and high-end skills. Perhaps a few years after this acquisition, they'll adopt futuristic advanced technology and will put the correct name of their product on their web site. If all goes well, they might even learn to sweep the floor!

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I know you guys are knawing at the bit for the latest Erwin Hymer Group NA news...

Clear road ahead; Kitchener motorhome manufacturer poised for growth

Nice find & good article. Exciting for Jim to be in charge of this. They're talking 5X sales growth. It seems clear that Hymer trailers are coming. You have to wonder if / hope that the small A's & C's will be offered. It will be great to have more options.