Hymer Aktiv?

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by mdoc

I like the Aktiv, and I could live with the cassette toilet. However, that price is way too high for me. $105K before you add any options? I couldn't justify that. Of course, all of the Bs seem to be jumping in price. It'll be interesting to see how they sell.

The Activ has few options and is pretty much fully configured for the NA market.

[BobB]

Everyone does seem to be talking about the price. Should the price be more in line with a Euro price converted to $. I don't know. They are about to start building a new factory in Ontario.

I think they are pricing it to take advantage of the "gap". Below are the "Starting" prices of PW, RT, and WGO Class Bs, both Sprinter and PM, no slide-out models, and one - the E-Trek - with all the power/solar options.

Roadtrek Simplicity $79,118
Roadtrek Zion SRT $84,006
Winnebago Travato G $89,074
Winnebago Travato K $89,074
Roadtrek Zion $89,206
Pleasureway Promaster Lexor $118,775
Pleasureway Ascent $118,775
Winnebago ERA 70A $120,896
Winnebago ERA 70X $120,896
Roadtrek Agile $121,407
Roadtrek RS Adventurous $127,192
Roadtrek CS Adventurous $129,714
Pleasureway Plateau TS $129,935
Pleasureway Plateau FL $129,935
Roadtrek E-Trek $141,518

I did a quick graph of them and guess where Hymer is aiming? Will it work? I don't know.

[markopolo]

I see the Lexor MSRP at $102,570.00

You'd have to come up with a base unit price for each model adding typical features to make the units comparable. For example, add the TV option price and a generator on Roadtreks if comparing to Winnebago. You might have to add lithium batteries to other brands if comparing to Pleasure-Way. Ultra-leather, multiplex wiring, TV, blue-ray player, generator, cable TV hookup all standard features in Pleasure-Way.

From the Pleasure-Way 2016 brochure:

Every 2016 Pleasure-Way come equipped standard with two 100 amp hour lithium iron phosphate (liFePo4) coach batteries.

Also, look at things like awning windows vs. sliding windows and component brand names like Winegard, Progressive Dynamics, etc.

It all makes it hard to compare on price alone especially if new to this.

[skodr]

I believe the promaster Lexor is 102,570. msrp. Plus 3500 for solar and paint.
For a 2016

[BobB]

Originally Posted by markopolo

It all makes it hard to compare on price alone especially if new to this.

Agree, but RT is the only one with a "Build Yours" feature, which is nice. Probably the Lexor would come down a bit if it had AGMs and be a bit closer to the Aktiv. Then there is the "off the lot" price/discount which confuses the situation even more.

Still I do find it interesting since many people's reaction - especially new customers - is to that initial "starting" price. That's where many start. Personally, I don't even look at the ones above $120k.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I see the Lexor MSRP at $102,570.00

.

My mistake. Corrected graph. So Aktiv and PW Lexor are about the same "starting" price.

[booster]

Now you just need to double the range of the graph, so you can fit in Advanced RV $

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by booster

Now you just need to double the range of the graph, so you can fit in Advanced RV $

Maybe a log scale to handle ARV...

[wincrasher]

As far as euro prices go, products are priced to the market, not necessarily the cost of production. So we in NA may, as a market, simply support higher prices, where the europeans will not. Also, as Marko pointed out, the B is a larger part of their market, so competition may be in play holding down prices.

Additionally, none of the quoted prices include VAT. That can add up to 24% in some markets.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by skodr

I believe the promaster Lexor is 102,570. msrp. Plus 3500 for solar and paint.
For a 2016

They've escalated prices quite a bit in the last year. The Lexor was around $88k at introduction as a 2015 model. They typically trade at 10% off, if my local dealer is typical.

[gregmchugh]

Anybody have an estimate of the ratio of the cost of production in for Hymer in Europe vs Kitchener vs Winnebago in Iowa vs Pleasure Way in Saskatoon?

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by BobB

Everyone does seem to be talking about the price. Should the price be more in line with a Euro price converted to $. I don't know. They are about to start building a new factory in Ontario.
...
Roadtrek Simplicity $79,118
Roadtrek Zion SRT $84,006
Winnebago Travato G $89,074
Winnebago Travato K $89,074
Roadtrek Zion $89,206
Pleasureway Promaster Lexor $118,775
Pleasureway Ascent $118,775
Winnebago ERA 70A $120,896
Winnebago ERA 70X $120,896
Roadtrek Agile $121,407
Roadtrek RS Adventurous $127,192
Roadtrek CS Adventurous $129,714
Pleasureway Plateau TS $129,935
Pleasureway Plateau FL $129,935
Roadtrek E-Trek $141,518
...
.

Originally Posted by wincrasher

As far as euro prices go, products are priced to the market, not necessarily the cost of production. So we in NA may, as a market, simply support higher prices, where the europeans will not. Also, as Marko pointed out, the B is a larger part of their market, so competition may be in play holding down prices.

Additionally, none of the quoted prices include VAT. That can add up to 24% in some markets.

It's very informative BobB to see the price range of the B market in the US.

When dealing with 3 countries like EHG, the fluctuation of the exchange rate must be a real headache for determining price points. Look at the actual price of a Canadian Safari Condo converted in USD and EUR.

The Safari Condo XL Flex
94 380,00 CAD = 71 101,94 USD = 63 670,34 EUR
Recreational vehicles (RV) and Motorhomes | Ram ProMaster - Mercedes Sprinter - GM Savana/Express

The Erwin Hymer Group prices will be very sensitive to the various rates of currencies involved in the production and sale of their vehicles. They must be calculating very hard now. And they don't know yet the achievable economies of scale because it must be very hard to predict how much units of a brand new vehicle will sell and how efficient will be the plant in Kitchener. They seem to start high at 105K for the AKTIV, but I think they are very far from making a lot of immediate profits, because they will have to seduce the customers buying a new vehicle from a new company (giving good discounts on the MSRP) and also factor in a good margin to the new network of dealers involved.

Like wincrasher is saying they are a lot of other important factors in determining the price. For example in Quebec the combined tax rate is 15%. A hefty hike when buying a new vehicle. Manufacturers and dealers have to determine the price according to the available "disposable income" of customers. The healthy RV market heated up the price point of the models of all manufacturers because the demand is very high. The XL Flex I bought started at 84K CAD two years ago, a 10K increase (mind you their models use a lot of imported european equipment and the CA Dollar plunged).

No wonder EHG/RT is showing its very AKTIV "debutante" in a lot of shows before deciding what to build. They said that the "official" launch of the AKTIV will happen later this spring. I'm very curious to see how all these efforts will eventually translate into sales of this very "different" B.

It will keep our group of armchair market analysts very busy!

[cruisefx]

Remember that the AKTIV is shorter than the PW Lexor, RT Zion and the Travatos. It is the same length as the SRT.

[gregmchugh]

Mike Wendland video of Hymer Aktiv...

Hands on with the Hymer after a visit to the factory - Roadtreking : The RV Lifestyle Blog

[gregmchugh]

Latest stuff on Erwin Hymer Group NA...

https://rv-pro.com/news/hymer-has-bi...ek-acquisition

[Keyne]

I looks nice. I would love to buy one but I can't fit in the front seat to drive it. At 6 feet tall it was terribly uncomfortable. I had the seat all the way back and also found the seat cushion leg support to be super short.

Now I am only looking at the more expensive and all diesel Sprinter models. Would have loved a cheaper, gas promaster RV.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by Keyne

I looks nice. I would love to buy one but I can't fit in the front seat to drive it. At 6 feet tall it was terribly uncomfortable. I had the seat all the way back and also found the seat cushion leg support to be super short.

Now I am only looking at the more expensive and all diesel Sprinter models. Would have loved a cheaper, gas promaster RV.

I don't get your discomfort. I'm 5'10" and find it to have plenty of room and I have the seat in a mid position on the track. Would 2" of overall height make than much of a difference? If I had the seat all the way back, my feet wouldn't reach the pedals!

[SiennaGuy]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I don't get your discomfort.

Sometimes it's not the overall height of a person that causes the problem. Sometimes (like with me) it has more to do with how long your inseam is, rather than your total height. Just like two inches can make a big difference in the length of a pair of pants, two inches can defintely make a driver's seat comfortable or uncomfortable, especially with my long legs.

[MobileCabin]

SiennaGuy,

I too found the Sprinter to be the platform that could best handle my legs.

[Keyne]

I looked on the Promaster forum for ideas on how to adjust the seat and found posts regarding similar experiences with drivers of my size. The best explanation I found was it was like being a clown riding a clown tricycle... I felt too faar forward with legs in an awkward position.

I might go to a Promaster dealer and try again but I spent some time trying to get comfortable and couldn't. Also people mentioned it's a van not a car so maybe I am not used to that type of position, but I have driven Ford and Chevy vans and trucks in the past with no issue. I am really surprised I didn't fit the PM so any suggestions on adjustments would be great.