hydronic heating system

[S&S THOMAS]

Originally Posted by avanti

As discussed above, the EasyStart controller will clear such a lock and also let the owner read error messages so you are not running blind when there is a malfunction. Very inexpensive. IMO it is crazy for any Espar owner to not have one of these. See George's message #17 above.

Thanks for your input RonP. My CS Adventurous has NO PROPANE, but lots of PV panels to keep the batteries topped up when not driving during the day. Also no fan for air circulation associated with the heating system.

I'm definitely looking into getting an Easy Start controller for the same reasons. However, I was informed today by the guys at the Denver Thermo King shop that the Easy Start controller that Heatso sells is NOT the same as the Espar/Eberspacher Easy Start. Apparently Heatso put "Espar" on their controller, but it's not the original (no idea how they get away with this). ThermoKing suggests ordering it from Espar in Germany, which takes a couple of weeks, as it comes into the US via Canada (go figure). I was also cautioned that European controllers with bluetooth capability (which is becoming more common) routinely do not work here in the US (different radio frequencies?). So, be careful about that.

No diagnosis yet on my hydronic unit, but hope to have that tomorrow, as well as a healthy hydronic system.

[S&S THOMAS]

Hi dlj, all good suggestions. Thanks for the hints about the refer. Will be heading across Utah, AZ and SoCal deserts in mid-July, so this is all very useful for me to keep in mind.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by S&S THOMAS

THowever, I was informed today by the guys at the Denver Thermo King shop that the Easy Start controller that Heatso sells is NOT the same as the Espar/Eberspacher Easy Start. Apparently Heatso put "Espar" on their controller, but it's not the original (no idea how they get away with this).

That's hard to believe. OTOH, ThermoKing is a pretty reliable source, so....?

I would call Jim Rixen. You will get definitive information from him and he will know what to sell you. He is NOT a discount seller, but sometimes that isn't your best option.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by S&S THOMAS

..................... However, I was informed today by the guys at the Denver Thermo King shop that the Easy Start controller that Heatso sells is NOT the same as the Espar/Eberspacher Easy Start. Apparently Heatso put "Espar" on their controller, but it's not the original (no idea how they get away with this). ThermoKing suggests ordering it from Espar in Germany, which takes a couple of weeks, as it comes into the US via Canada (go figure). I was also cautioned that European controllers with bluetooth capability (which is becoming more common) routinely do not work here in the US (different radio frequencies?). So, be careful about that.
No diagnosis yet on my hydronic unit, but hope to have that tomorrow, as well as a healthy hydronic system.

I also have difficulties believing this info.
ESPAR is NA distributor for Eberspacher, they change the name, had some different controller such as Digi-Max. I had older model and didn’t like it. Thermo King is very likely allowed to purchase Espar product to keep warranty in for NA.

EBERSPACHER is the original company distributing product through the World including Heatso. Heatso became solid competitor to ESPAR with weak BP due to Brexit. A lot of folks on the Sprinter forum buy from the Heatso company. Different product for Germany and UK, very doubtful. Delivery from Heatso is phenomenal, days, call them and ask for best choice.

I purchased the Easy Start Timer to control both Airtronics D2 and Hydronic D5, similar to Easy Start Select.

There are 3 EasyStart models, Select, Pro and Timer and all have diagnostic function so select is your best option, small and inexpensive.

[avanti]

There are a bunch of Easy Starts available on eBay, if you wish to go that route.

These are not exotic devices.

[Bungawoosie]

So the best thing I can do for you is give you the phone number to Rixson Enterprises which is in Portland Oregon not Poland 1 800 925 6260

[S&S THOMAS]

Well, I'm finally back after taking my RoadTrek CS Adventurous to ThermoKing in Denver to deal with my non-operational hydronic heating system. I took it in on Monday, 6/29, and they kept it for three nights before calling to tell me that they were so unfamiliar with the system I have in the rig that they just didn't even want to get into it. remember that it is an Eberspacher (ESPAR) hydronic unit coupled to an Alde 3010 controller.

This leaves me with no alternative but to take ithe RV back to the dealer where I bought it (TransWest in Frederick, CO) last year. Their service department can't get me into their shop until July 28. I called their "RV tech guru" before making an appointment and explained the situation to him. He said they had had several RoadTreks in with similar problems, but did not provide any information about the probable diagnosis or cost to repair. Grrrr!

[GeorgeRa]

Sorry about your problems, anyone who knows how to repair Espar would know how to repair Eberspacher, the same units, not a rocket science. Thinking loud, Thermo-King folks could be under Espar contract to service Espar units only. Your D5 could have come from EU with Alde.
I am repeating myself; your position would be much stronger if you knew the failure code.

More possible options:

1. Get a new Espar Hydronic D5, same model as your, from Thermo-King and ask them to install it. Will cost you $1-1.5K but you will be set for future maintenance.

2. Call MB dealers and ask for best local experts for Eberspacher, some Sprinters have 2 Hydronic D5s installed, they are made at Eberspacher factory but are tuned to MB computer system.

3. Call Jim Rixen, ask whom he would recommend you to help in Colorado. He needs to service his Rixen Hydronic Systems in NA so he could have approval list of know-how folks.

I just can imagine how frustrating this is for you, it takes minutes to retrieve a code but someone would have to install a reader like an EasyStart Select assuming you get one.

I hope you will be successful at the dealership you are planing to go to, but based on my past experience my opinion about RV repair facilities is CORRECTION IS NOT very good.

Good luck.

[S&S THOMAS]

GeorgeRa, Thanks for your excellent suggestions. I hadn't thought of Mercedes, not knowing that some Sprinters have hydronic systems installed in stock models. Will probably call Jim Rixen, too. Many thanks, again.

[avanti]

Agree with everything that George said. I would add this:
I think your immediate goal should be to get an EasyStart installed. I think that there is a very good chance that simply clearing the codes will get the heater running again (although it may still have issues). Anyone who has ANY familiarity with these systems should be able to do this easily.

[S&S THOMAS]

Avanti, I will pursue the installation of an EasyStart controller with the dealer when I bring the rig in for diagnosis and repair.

I think there is probably another issue (fuel line obstructed seems most likely), as I remember the system having trouble firing up several times before it finally just quit trying completely. Thanks, Steve

[avanti]

Originally Posted by S&S THOMAS

Avanti, I will pursue the installation of an EasyStart controller with the dealer when I bring the rig in for diagnosis and repair.

I think there is probably another issue (fuel line obstructed seems most likely), as I remember the system having trouble firing up several times before it finally just quit trying completely. Thanks, Steve

Yes, there has to be SOME underlying issue that caused the lockout. But, as I said before, I can think of no fuel-related failure that could could produce your current symptoms absent a lockout. The heater has to go through its startup cycle before it could even tell whether or not there is fuel present, and you would hear that happening. Clearing the lockout would allow the underlying symptoms to be observed again.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yes, there has to be SOME underlying issue that caused the lockout. But, as I said before, I can think of no fuel-related failure that could could produce your current symptoms absent a lockout. The heater has to go through its startup cycle before it could even tell whether or not there is fuel present, and you would hear that happening. Clearing the lockout would allow the underlying symptoms to be observed again.

I agree, key point.

I very much doubt any of the Colorado RV places will have an EasyStart Select or EasyStart Pro controllers, Thermo King is the primary distributor of Espar product in Colorado. You could contact Alde NA or Espar / Eberspacher NA and ask for advice. https://www.eberspaecher-na.com/prod...er-search.html

[S&S THOMAS]

Avanti, yes, understood. That's the first step - clear the code and then diagnose the underlying problem. After that, I'll deal with getting an EasyStart installed, but I'll talk to the dealer about it and see if they would be willing to install it if I or they order one.
Not confident that ThermoKing Denver would be willing to do it for me, given their reluctance to touch my system previously. They just didn't seem to understand what they had in front of them. I don't believe they even put their diagnostic computer onto my system, as I got absolutely nothing from them and they didn't charge me anything.

[Calvin T]

Hi - it might be stale but this is a great thread and as a new owner of a lightly-used Roadtrek RS Adventurous with a similar problem, I'm interested in whether S&S Thomas was able to resolve the difficulty getting his Espar heater running.

For what it's worth, the advice in the thread was great in helping me get started. I ended up on the phone with Jim Rixen and his shop a couple times. Purchased a controller, and a Y-split wiring harness, from Rixen and used it tonight to read and clear codes. I'm still in the middle of the diagnostic process, but was able to read the codes, confirm that the system was locked out, reset the codes and regain access to starting the system. By dusk I was getting new fresh codes ("no flame") and when time allows I will continue the diagnostics.

If someone with a late-model Roadtrek wants more info, I'm happy to send links to several comprehensive troubleshooting manuals, and a pic of how to temporarily attach the diagnostic tool with the Y-split harness under the rig. It's maybe a 5 minute job if you have a ramp or drive the left-front tire onto a 4x4 or similar (taking care to block the wheels, etc).

Would also be interested in the conclusion of S&S's problem solving if he sees this post.

Thanks, -Calvin

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Calvin T

Hi - it might be stale but this is a great thread and as a new owner of a lightly-used Roadtrek RS Adventurous with a similar problem, I'm interested in whether S&S Thomas was able to resolve the difficulty getting his Espar heater running.

For what it's worth, the advice in the thread was great in helping me get started. I ended up on the phone with Jim Rixen and his shop a couple times. Purchased a controller, and a Y-split wiring harness, from Rixen and used it tonight to read and clear codes. I'm still in the middle of the diagnostic process, but was able to read the codes, confirm that the system was locked out, reset the codes and regain access to starting the system. By dusk I was getting new fresh codes ("no flame") and when time allows I will continue the diagnostics.

If someone with a late-model Roadtrek wants more info, I'm happy to send links to several comprehensive troubleshooting manuals, and a pic of how to temporarily attach the diagnostic tool with the Y-split harness under the rig. It's maybe a 5 minute job if you have a ramp or drive the left-front tire onto a 4x4 or similar (taking care to block the wheels, etc).

Would also be interested in the conclusion of S&S's problem solving if he sees this post.

Thanks, -Calvin

It is unfortunate that Sir S Thomas became MIA. I assume you don't have an Eberspacher controller capable to read codes directly, so it must be a Rixen system.

Many possible causes for no ignition, good luck.

[S&S THOMAS]

George, i'm currently on the road, but will reply more fully in a few days. I learned a lot during this process. Most importantly, perhaps, these hydronic systems are only rated for about 500 hours before they need to be rebuilt. Lesson: use sparingly. More later, Steve

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by S&S THOMAS

George, i'm currently on the road, but will reply more fully in a few days. I learned a lot during this process. Most importantly, perhaps, these hydronic systems are only rated for about 500 hours before they need to be rebuilt. Lesson: use sparingly. More later, Steve

Thank you for the update. 500 hours is very new info for me. My Airtronics D2 is over 500 hours without maintenance. From the well known site - https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk...st%20need%20it.

"How often should I get my Eberspacher heater serviced?

Eberspacher recommend servicing heaters annually (average of 2000 hours), every two years if heater is only used occasionally. Annual maintenance can prevent the heater failing in use, usually when you most need it. Our pages give DIY servicing details of some models. Servicing of other Eberspacher heaters should be similar enough to these to enable you use them as general guides. Alternatively use a dealer, list of dealers is on Eberspacher's website. Very old heaters like D1L, D2L, D3L, D4L, D5L are probably better left alone if the heater is working well."

[avanti]

Originally Posted by S&S THOMAS

George, i'm currently on the road, but will reply more fully in a few days. I learned a lot during this process. Most importantly, perhaps, these hydronic systems are only rated for about 500 hours before they need to be rebuilt. Lesson: use sparingly. More later, Steve

Where did the "rated for about 500 hours" claim come from? I'm with George. I simply don't believe this. A properly-installed unit will go a LOT longer than that. An improperly set up fuel system can reduce this dramatically, though. Lots of installations take shortcuts here. Read and follow the (very detailed) fuel line part of the installation manual EXACTLY.

Also, as has been stated, run a gallon of kerosene through it once a year, and you are likely to enjoy your Espar for a long, long time. Using it sparingly defeats the whole point, IMO.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Where did the "rated for about 500 hours" claim come from? I'm with George. I simply don't believe this. A properly-installed unit will go a LOT longer than that. An improperly set up fuel system can reduce this dramatically, though. Lots of installations take shortcuts here. Read and follow the (very detailed) fuel line part of the installation manual EXACTLY.

Also, as has been stated, run a gallon of kerosene through it once a year, and you are likely to enjoy your Espar for a long, long time. Using it sparingly defeats the whole point, IMO.

I wonder if that would be a reference to burner cleaning intervals, which I think is pretty common. In the days when there were a lot of home fuel oil furnaces in homes, it was a huge variable from what I remember and mainly was based on the quality of fuel oil they were using. I would wonder what the biofuels do to the requirement as that was around then.


I assume the kerosene once a year is to flush and clean the systems?