How does this compare to NA Class B

[RobRyan]

Other reason you have problem with parts the Promaster is not the same as the Ducato. So specific parts are made in the US or Mexico

[Sensfan]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Plus the fact that big companies (Thor, Forest River, etal) with an already poor reputation for service and quality keep buying up the smaller converters and trashing their products.
When I bought my first rig in 2004, nearly all of the Class B's (except maybe Winnebago) were built in Canada by 4 small family owned companies (Great West, Pleasureway, Leisure Travel, and Roadtrek) who turned out well built products. Only PW is still owned by the same family.
As soon as the big guys take over, it is quantity, not quality.

Agreed. It is no coincidence that PW, a motorhome company that does not sell market shares, continues to produce quality products decade after decade. Product quality is their priority. By definition, a company can have only one priority. Companies that sell market shares prioritize profit.
It is what it is, lol.

[RobRyan]

Another base Renault Master

[RobRyan]

As far as Class B or Campervan manufacturers and outfitters as we call them here, there are A LOT.

[RobRyan]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I wouldn't mind them... if they worked. Constant malfunctions are a PIA.

Never seen any such thing as a refrigerated glove box, and completely unnecessary in a vehicle with a large fridge nearby... lol

Makes sense for the passenger when you are driving and want to keep a drink cold when your on the road

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by jrobe

I bet it is a problem for the Promaster owner that recently posted here that his transmission failed and Stellantis wasn't make the replacement transmission parts anymore.

Other reason you have problem with parts the Promaster is not the same as the Ducato. So specific parts are made in the US or Mexico

These two comments share the same issue. The engine and drive train of the Promaster (which is built in Mexico) are both 'US' parts... same as the long time Dodge Ram pick-ups. Where the parts are made is always a question. Supply issues have barely improved at all since Covid. A friend had a new transmission replaced not long ago and it quickly failed... blamed on installer error. It wasn't under warranty from Promaster, and the installer said that he could get a rebuilt/used more quickly and she took that option. We wait and see.

I don't buy the comment that the parts are not being made any more. There are thousands and thousands of vehicles still on the road with this transmission... not to mention the ones sitting in the junk yards. More likely corporate foot dragging...

[RobRyan]

Originally Posted by mumkin

These two comments share the same issue. The engine and drive train of the Promaster (which is built in Mexico) are both 'US' parts... same as the long time Dodge Ram pick-ups. Where the parts are made is always a question. Supply issues have barely improved at all since Covid. A friend had a new transmission replaced not long ago and it quickly failed... blamed on installer error. It wasn't under warranty from Promaster, and the installer said that he could get a rebuilt/used more quickly and she took that option. We wait and see.

I don't buy the comment that the parts are not being made any more. There are thousands and thousands of vehicles still on the road with this transmission... not to mention the ones sitting in the junk yards. More likely corporate foot dragging...

Fiat Ducato Motorhomes and Class B's make up the bulk of the European Motorhome market. Attached is a 3 litre Diesel version. Promaster 3.6 engine and parts only apply to North America

[booster]

Originally Posted by RobRyan

Fiat Ducato Motorhomes and Class B's make up the bulk of the European Motorhome market. Attached is a 3 litre Diesel version. Promaster 3.6 engine and parts only apply to North America

If that is still a front wheel drive, that is a huge amount of RV and trailer to be driving on only the front wheels.

[RobRyan]

Originally Posted by booster

If that is still a front wheel drive, that is a huge amount of RV and trailer to be driving on only the front wheels.

More the case it seems to go ok, with that arrangement. Very smooth ride, very frugal fuel usage. Take into account i Europe is much more mountainous and hilly than the US. Still it is the preferred chassis for European Motorhome builders

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by RobRyan

...Take into account i Europe is much more mountainous and hilly than the US...

Not sure that is really true... as it depends on where you are in the US. Europe is more compressed... not as much flat area as we have in the US in between the mountainous and hilly areas.

[RobRyan]

Being around Europe and the US it is much more hilly and mountainous than the Continental US. Still it is interesting that the Promaster and Ducato retain FWD.

[MsNomer]

Why not? It's a joy to drive in the mountains.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by RobRyan

Being around Europe and the US it is much more hilly and mountainous than the Continental US. Still it is interesting that the Promaster and Ducato retain FWD.

Sounds like you didn't see it all. lol The difference is the smallness of Europe, so it is more compressed and obvious. It doesn't have the huge flat expanses that the US has between the very hilly Appalachians in the east, and the massive Rockies in the west. Europe certainly has more narrow winding road through small villages that we don't have in the US (or Australia)

Like MsNomer, I love the Promaster front wheel drive. I remember the first time I drove one back in 2018 and declared it the Sports-car of RVs/van campers. The salesman laughed and agreed that it drove better than many SUVs and certainly had a smaller turning radius. I too found it did great in both the hilly areas and the mountains. Especially loved the tow/haul system that cured my white knuckle mountain driving. lol

[booster]

I think my comment about front drive was misunderstood. Front drive handles well under most circumstances, but not all.

I was referring to Robryan's pix of a huge class C that was big enough to need a tag axle, and it was pulling a car on a trailer.

Traction is determined primarily by the weight on the wheels and resistance to moving by the total weight and other factors That class C would be moving massive weight that is not above the drive axle and in any reduced traction situation, especially if uphill, front wheel spin is likely. Front drive cars, and probably an empty Promaster, have more weight on the front than rear so do better than rear drive cars in slippery, but that swaps in tail heavy RVs

I know this happens easily as I towed with front drive cars. Just a utility trailer with maybe 1000# in it and the cars would spin as soon as I went up over the sloped curb and hit the boulevard grass. Would not move at all. With the same size car in rear drive it would drive right in no problem.

We have heard of Promaster class b's that would lose traction going up gravel inclines, and I sure it would also spin on a grass uphill or mud.


So no, I am not anti front drive, but like all in life it has it's limitations. I have been driving front drive cars since before it was fashionable with the first one being a Saab 96 in 1971. It was king of the road when it was snowy and slippery here in Minnesota back then.

[RobRyan]

Originally Posted by booster

I think my comment about front drive was misunderstood. Front drive handles well under most circumstances, but not all.

I was referring to Robryan's pix of a huge class C that was big enough to need a tag axle, and it was pulling a car on a trailer.

Traction is determined primarily by the weight on the wheels and resistance to moving by the total weight and other factors That class C would be moving massive weight that is not above the drive axle and in any reduced traction situation, especially if uphill, front wheel spin is likely. Front drive cars, and probably an empty Promaster, have more weight on the front than rear so do better than rear drive cars in slippery, but that swaps in tail heavy RVs

I know this happens easily as I towed with front drive cars. Just a utility trailer with maybe 1000# in it and the cars would spin as soon as I went up over the sloped curb and hit the boulevard grass. Would not move at all. With the same size car in rear drive it would drive right in no problem.

We have heard of Promaster class b's that would lose traction going up gravel inclines, and I sure it would also spin on a grass uphill or mud.


So no, I am not anti front drive, but like all in life it has it's limitations. I have been driving front drive cars since before it was fashionable with the first one being a Saab 96 in 1971. It was king of the road when it was snowy and slippery here in Minnesota back then.

Agree nonetheless the Ducato makes up the bulk of European Motorhomes and Campervans. Ford Transit bases , unlike the US are pretty rare. Non existent in Australia. Yes there are heavy Luxury Motorhomes and so called Horseboxes based on European medium and semi Trucks.

[RobRyan]

4WD versions are available to order, which are converted by the French company Dangel using a central viscous coupling.

The Ducato is the most common motorhome base used in Europe; with around two-thirds of motorhomes using the Ducato base

Interestingly it is rebadged by other manufacturers in Europe.. Quote from Wikipedia

[MsNomer]

Fiat, Peugeot, and Citroen developed the body as a joint effort. Brilliant.

[RobRyan]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Fiat, Peugeot, and Citroen developed the body as a joint effort. Brilliant.

Very much a generic medium Van in Europe. Others are specific, like the IVECO which is the heavy Van up to 15,500lb GVWR, 23,400lb GCVWR

[RobRyan]

There are about 45 Convertors and manufacturers Of Class B's in Australia. Some different bases you do not see in the US. Now this manufacturer Red Centre is fairly new but look at their" Motorhome " range, basically Class B's. I have never heard of them before.
Can add their are six manufacturers of volume Class C's( six models or more) unique to Australia seven manufacturers of Expedition vehicles or Off Road Motorhomes
www.redcentrecaravans.com.au