How do you use your Class B?

[avanti]

As an owner of an OM651 (4 cylinder diesel/7 speed transmission), I can report that it is an excellent powertrain. We've had it everywhere, and have never wanted for power. As far as I am aware, there is literally not a single 651 owner on the Sprinter list who regrets not choosing the V6. If I were to ever purchase another diesel van, I would not hesitate to get another I4. That said, there is not the chance of a snowball in Hades that I would ever consider owning another diesel of any variety--certainly not a Mercedes.

[folivier]

So, how do you all like to use your Class B?
Just starting to research buying a B for the 1300 mile trip to our cabin in the mountains. Also will use it for 2-3 day camping trips.

Do you travel like me?
Somewhat.


Do you think the B is too small?
Probably not for our travel trips and short camping trips, we’ll try to plan around the weather.


Would you rather have a larger B?
No

Do you want to but a truck and tow a trailer?

NO

Do you want to buy a Class A and tow a car?
Had one for 12 years and was great for living in but not anymore

Do you boondocks?
Yes, mainly overnight then travel again in the morning.

[Sailorguy7]

Could you expand on your comment about not wanting another Diesel. I think I understand but would appreciate hearing it from you. As far as I am concerned the 4 cyl Gas is a strong choice, especially when used in a light duty application.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Sailorguy7

Could you expand on your comment about not wanting another Diesel. I think I understand but would appreciate hearing it from you. As far as I am concerned the 4 cyl Gas is a strong choice, especially when used in a light duty application.

Easy to understand:
The Mercedes BlueTec emissions system is a nightmare and doesn't appear to be getting any better. We've had enough of worrying about being stranded yet again due to a fault that can only be fixed at an often-distant Mercedes dealer. Yes, you will find people who claim that they have never had such a problem, and they may well be telling the truth. But, statistically, the risk is clearly unreasonably high. We probably wouldn't be replacing our rig but for this issue.

There are trips we are afraid to take due to our experience. The basic powertrains are superb. The bottom-line reliability is ridiculous. Once you have lost faith in your vehicle, it is like driving with a sword of Damocles.

[Davydd]

I don’t recall a single complaint about the VS30 (2019+) Sprinters.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I don’t recall a single complaint about the VS30 (2019+) Sprinters.

I hope you are right. I really do.

The problem is that last time around, it took me a full two years for the fun to begin, and longer than that to realize that it wasn't a one-off problem. I shake my head when I reread my own early gushing posts.

I bear no ill-will to Mercedes, and certainly wish the best for all owners. Sprinters really are great vehicles, and I would love to own another one. And, I understand that for many people, the tradeoffs are worth it. Just not for us. Once burned, twice shy.

We voted with our feet.

[Davydd]

For one it would take someone paying no attention to his Sprinter as you have constant warnings when the DEF goes down 2.5 gallons on a 4.8 gallon tank and there is a visual on your dash screen telling you how much you used so you can prepare beforehand with the 2.5 gallon fill you can buy in any auto parts store, truck stop or Walmart. No guess dipstick. the filler has been moved forward toward the front integrated with grille and has big filler overflow cup with a drainage hole and tube to the ground. No mess. Easier and no-brainer with a 2.5 gallon container. I assume the sensors are better now since they have improved them steadily. I'm comfortable with the DEF system. It just something you have to deal with now with diesel.

The pump handles are dirty. That part I don't like and where a glove. The one benefit is most diesel pumps are on the end and easy to see, anticipate and get to.

I've never had a problem with bio-diesel in Minnesota. I don't like it. Mileage is slightly less. I doubt it is never 15% as they state it could be and all diesel is probably 5% when they don't have to say that.

As you know diesel powers our heating and hot water. I have no idea if gas is better or not but I definitely like that way from the chassis tank than propane. With a high amp lithium ion battery bank with electrical capacity for everything, Onan generators and propane is not needed. We have a portable induction cooktop we can cook inside or a pull down table outside our sliding door. We don't like to cook inside unless it is inclement weather.

We sometimes carry a Coleman grill but use bottle propane for that on a picnic table sometimes far from the van. My preference is making hearty stews in a large Dutch oven with charcoals on the ground and lid. I've made 12" pizzas that way but now have a Bertello pizza oven that can fit on the back shelves of our van. It can be used with charcoal, wood chips and sticks or propane. That of course has to be outside.

[avanti]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I do want to make clear that I completely agree that a properly-operating DEF system is absolutely no big deal. My experience is the same as DavyDD's. The hassles are minimal and totally worth the contribution to the climate. My problem is when they fail. It happens way too often and the consequences (limp modes, limited starts, etc) are unreasonable. The VS30 has the same basic emissions system as the NCV3. Maybe after all these years they have fixed all the problems. I hope so. I will let somebody else do the experiment.

I also agree that a fuel-fired heater is the way to go. But that is equally possible with gas and diesel.

[GeorgeRa]

For a few years now I am using DEF in well design bottles. One bottle is always in the Sprinter. Filling is easy absolutely without spill and fill stops automatically. I top the tank every other diesel fill. Cost a little more but filling is painless.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

Not to beat a dead horse, but I do want to make clear that I completely agree that a properly-operating DEF system is absolutely no big deal. My experience is the same as DavyDD's. The hassles are minimal and totally worth the contribution to the climate. My problem is when they fail. It happens way too often and the consequences (limp modes, limited starts, etc) are unreasonable. The VS30 has the same basic emissions system as the NCV3. Maybe after all these years they have fixed all the problems. I hope so. I will let somebody else do the experiment.

I also agree that a fuel-fired heater is the way to go. But that is equally possible with gas and diesel.

Some of us could remember Lambda exhaust sensors which Volvo started 45 years ago. NOx sensors used in BlueTec are similar, a little more complex. Today, Lambda / oxygen sensors are foolproof and cost about $15/ea. Diesel doesn’t have 45 years to get them fully develop but the latest series #5 from MB seems as very reliable.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

the latest series #5 from MB seems as very reliable.

Agree. I have had no lambda sensor issues since the upgrade to V.5. Subsequent failures have all been in different parts of the system.

Of course, the recent huge emissions program has introduced yet another version (V.6, I assume). So another roll of the reliability dice. Mine have been ok so far. Note also that this program and general supply-chain issues have created a shortage of these parts. My service was delayed. Those with recent failures have reportedly had their vans stuck at the dealer for [U]months[U]! MB isn't allowed to replace defective units with the older revs, so the vans are just parked. They have apparently been providing loaner cars (not loaner Sprinters, however).

I have also recently had my extremely-failure-prone rear speed sensors replaced under a safety recall related to moisture penetration. No failures since then. So there is that.

[rvsprinterguy]

Do you travel like me?
Occasionally. Some of our trips are to the Monterey Bay Area or to Wine Country in Sonoma and Napa Counties. On those trips, we're likely to stay in a hotel and the Sprinter is just a nice big easy to pack travel vehicle with a kitchen for making snacks and the bathroom when it's needed. Most of our trips are actual camping and we go when the weather is nice because the van is too small to be stuck in.

Do you think the B is too small?
Yes, when it's unpleasant to be outside.

Would you rather have a larger B?
Not really. I'd like to have the volume in it used differently. I really like the liftable beds I've seen in Revels. I like the footprint of my size Sprinter and would not trade its ability to maneuver in traffic or park for anything bigger.

Do you want to buy a truck and tow a trailer?
We toy with that idea. When we're all set up in a campsite with the hookups made, we're stuck. Being able to disconnect the tow truck and use it to go explore is attractive. Driving a 40-foot compound vehicle in traffic, or backing it into a tight parking space gives me pause. Uber is an attractive alternative many places.

Do you want to buy a Class A and tow a car?
No. One of the beauties of owning a Class B is that it fits in my driveway. In our current living situation, having a Class A would mean spending $300 per month for uncovered storage elsewhere. I'm not interested in that.

Do you boondock?
Yes, for short periods when we're stuck with a campsite without hookups. It's never been more than a couple of nights and all the systems in our old Sprinter are up to that. Anything longer and we'd be sweating gray and black water tank capacity.

Our next RV will most likely be a modern Class B, with a gasoline engine. Everything else being equal, I don't want to have to manage another tank of fluids. I guess DEF is cheap and easy to find, but I'd inevitably run it empty and be stuck in limp-home mode.

Maybe an electric van will be practical when we're in the market.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

Our next RV will most likely be a modern Class B, with a gasoline engine. Everything else being equal, I don't want to have to manage another tank of fluids. I guess DEF is cheap and easy to find, but I'd inevitably run it empty and be stuck in limp-home mode.

Maybe an electric van will be practical when we're in the market.

I'll say it again, if you can run a VS30 (2019+) Sprinter DEF to empty then you will really be an idiot. You now get a visual warning that will not go away when you are 2.5 gallons down on a 4.8 gallon tank which means you would have 3,000 or so miles to get DEF before it runs empty. It is cheap and easy to get.

[jrobe]

I would go one step further. If you run any Sprinters DEF tank down, you are an idiot. The stuff is cheap at Walmart, etc.. I have a couple 2.5 gal jugs in my garage at all times and top it off in 2 minutes every time I get home from a trip. I also keep a spare gallon in my rear storage box. It isn't rocket science to keep the gas and DEF tank from running out.

[rvsprinterguy]

My shying away from the future purchase of diesel-powered vehicles has a bit more thought behind it than fearing to forget to fill a tank, although it is good to know I’d be an idiot to let that happen, in most circumstances.

As an owner of a diesel T1N Sprinter subject to an emissions-related recall a few years ago, and enduring a botched job of it at an authorized dealer, I am sensitive to the prospect of failures in even more sophisticated emissions systems.

In the news (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/06/b...od-prices.html) is the prospect of a shortage of DEF, due to supply chain problems. It seems most of the urea that the world uses to make DEF comes from where most everything else does. That country, fearing a shortfall in food production, has placed export restrictions on urea, which happens to be a fertilizer precursor. Might DEF be hard to get, or become expensive? Who knows.