HOA Harassment in California

[Davydd]

Our HOA cul-de-sac of 16 homes is a private street and is posted as such and is part of the ownership. So I think we can make our own rules. As for parking on a public street, I would think that would be up to the city's ordinance.

As for this thread, I don't think we know the full story, but for one, a renter does not have any rights in a Home Owner's Association unless they can be found spelled out explicitly in the HOA rules. This could stem from the actual owner and his/her past historical relationship with the HOA (neighbors.) For many HOAs the purpose is to protect property values as well as provide beneficial services. One protection is to discourage absentee ownership and renters especially detached homes which is perceived to bring down home sale values. Not so much in condo sales or accepted areas of seasonal occupancies.

You may be bearing the brunt of the owner's past association and actions. In effect then you may be perceived as not welcome so any action you take against the HOA is foolish as you are free to move. I bought into an HOA and understood the rules and bought into another association of condo garages for the very same reasons you feel discriminated against. We have more severe restrictions. All owner's vehicles have to be garageable and only visitors can park in the driveways and street. I couldn't park my Class B physically in my driveway anyway. I think I would PO'd if another neighbor did it.

I'm not on the board of my HOA. I didn't put my hat in the ring as we travel at least 1/3rd of the year. However, one board member is relinquishing his seat as they are traveling in a sailboat from Lake Michigan and down the eastern intercoastal for more than a year starting this spring. I like all my neighbors. It is a small group and we get together socially almost monthly. A professional group actually manages the HOA for us in all outside maintenance of the homes, insurance, street cleaning, landscaping, lawn mowing, snow shoveling and trash pickup. The board reviews, has oversight and makes the final decisions. The builder established the HOA and had a seat on the board until he sold the last unit. It's ideal for us in enabling us to travel worry free.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by eric1514

It really doesn't matter who owns the streets. Many people buy a house where the CC&Rs prohibit parking on the street and they think their defense is that the city owns the street and therefore the HOA can't tell them to not to park there. When they lose their battle with the HOA it will not be because they parked on the street. It will be because they were in breach of contract.

Yes it does matter in a non-gated community. My development in Maryland just experienced this issue. There are several B-vans parked on the County controlled streets in neighborhood. One Winnebago Era is parked right in front of the community center. Some neighbors complained since the HOA has a no-RV rule. But HOA management said there is nothing they can due since the County controls and maintains the streets which allows these types of vehicles to park on the street.

Gated communities with private streets are another story as OP has just indicated.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by werdnash2002

The do own the street unfortunately. It is gated and has signs saying private roads. This is the exact wording of the rule they are saying im in violation of.

"No Trailer, Camper, Mobile Home, Boat or similar equipment or commercial vehicle , truck other than a standard size pick up truck, or dilapidated, inoperable or abandoned vehicle shall be parked, kept, stored or permitted to remain upon any area within the development, OTHER THAN TEMPORARILY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES.

To me its very clear this rule means you cannot store these vehicles here but they are allowed to be here temporarily ie in 2 hour parkings, while someone is moving in and out, while you load unload, while someone is having work done etc. The law here is they have to give you a 72 hour notice to tow a vehicle. Good luck to them giving me a notice while I load, unload and wash. I'll be in an out in under an hour and anyone who tries to put a notice on my windshield might get soaked by a pressure washer

In all of this, it seems odd to me. What happens when a Property Owner wants to load/unload their rv? I guess it is ok, while a renter goes off to jail!

[Bruceper]

There was a story of a lawyer in "trouble" with his HOA for a "non standard" vehicle on the street. The street was owned by the city so there was nothing they could do.

The "non standard vehicle" just happened to be a restored tank.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/lo...oaks/479844850

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Yes it does matter in a non-gated community. My development in Maryland just experienced this issue. There are several B-vans parked on the County controlled streets in neighborhood. One Winnebago Era is parked right in front of the community center. Some neighbors complained since the HOA has a no-RV rule. But HOA management said there is nothing they can due since the County controls and maintains the streets which allows these types of vehicles to park on the street.

Gated communities with private streets are another story as OP has just indicated.

I think your HOA is mistaken.

The county/city may control the street but in our neighborhood we are aware of the CC&Rs. They state we may not park on the street so although the city says I can park on the street, I would be in violation of HOA rules if I did and subject to their penalties for doing so.

Similarly, I may own my driveway, but if I have a car up on blocks in my driveway, it may be OK with the city but I would be in violation of the HOA rules.

[booster]

Originally Posted by eric1514

I think your HOA is mistaken.

The county/city may control the street but in our neighborhood we are aware of the CC&Rs. They state we may not park on the street so although the city says I can park on the street, I would be in violation of HOA rules if I did and subject to their penalties for doing so.

Similarly, I may own my driveway, but if I have a car up on blocks in my driveway, it may be OK with the city but I would be in violation of the HOA rules.

I did a quick search on CC&Rs and got this

The CC&Rs must be recorded with the county recorder's office in order to create certain restrictions on the property and provide recorded notice of the contractual obligations on the deed to prospective buyers. You should be able to find a copy of the CC&Rs on your county assessor's official government website

As was mentioned earlier, it says they are put together early by the builder or HOA but maintained by the county. This would imply that they are relatively static as they mention them being on the property deed. It doesn't say what it would take to amend them.


It doesn't really matter in this case as the roads are private so controlled by HOA, but if they were city streets, I don't think they could just put in a change in rules that covered the city street unless they got the covenant changed to cover it. Your property is different than a public street, as you own it and have signed away your rights to the HOA in the contract. Public rights can't be signed away like that AFAIK.

[JustFoolingAround]

I live in SoCal. I have worked for a City for 15 years. Working with multiple HOAs, I have found that it all depends on the board makeup. If a boardmember owns a Class B, you are fine. If, on the other hand, they wish to enforce a no RV rule, they will do that. What I find is that HOA's have all the power in CA. It's not worth the fight. You will have to spend big money on an attorney and most likely the HOA management board, with their liability insurance that pays their legal fees, can outlast you financially, whether you are in the right or wrong. And the City really doesn't care until someone reports it. Then, they will respond per City Code. Luckily, in my neighborhood, the HOA has chosen not to enforce the no RV rule with my 'van' (2018 Pleasureway Lexor). Tip: Our CC&Rs provide an exception for vehicles used as 'daily drivers'. I made a note of that and drove my van everyday for 8 months before I retired. I also removed the signage on the sides and made sure that the van fit completely inside of my driveway (and not on the street or into the sidewalk). All that being said. if tomorrow, the board sends me a letter (again), I will sadly store my van. End of story.

[werdnash2002]

Thanks for your insight justfooling around. Sounds like you may be the most familiar with California law. I understand they can not let me store it here but by the wording of the rule can they really stop me from loading and unloading it? My mom lived in a neighbourhood where the CCR's specifically say no motorcycles or pickup trucks are allowed to enter or park in the neighbourhood. These rules don't state anything of the sorts in regards to RV's entering the gates on a temporary basis.

[Davydd]

Problem solved: A condo garage. A good appreciating investment. Man cave, wood shop, and extra storage. WiFi, a dump station, bathroom, water, and huge, heated wash stall in the 270 garage complex.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Problem solved: A condo garage. A good appreciating investment. Man cave, wood shop, and extra storage. WiFi, a dump station, bathroom, water, and huge, heated wash stall in the 270 garage complex.

Not sure how widespread the condo garage concept is yet. None in my area of Southeast VA.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Problem solved: A condo garage. A good appreciating investment. Man cave, wood shop, and extra storage. WiFi, a dump station, bathroom, water, and huge, heated wash stall in the 270 garage complex.

But you can't live there.

As I understand the problem, the OP is being told he cannot park his camper at his residence for a couple of hours to load for a trip, in apparent contradiction to the CCR's. He already has a place to store the camper off-site, not as fancy, but adequate. Either way- rented RV storage or condo garage- you have to shuttle your supplies to the storage site, load the camper, and leave your personal vehicle there while you're traveling. It would surely be more convenient to load from home, and the rules appear to allow it.

I guess he could just pretend it's a yacht. Plenty of those in the Bay Area. Owners know the shuttle routine and ways to make it efficient. Perhaps if he used yacht-styled totes, the neighbors would be impressed and unbend!

[SteveWolf]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Problem solved: A condo garage. A good appreciating investment. Man cave, wood shop, and extra storage. WiFi, a dump station, bathroom, water, and huge, heated wash stall in the 270 garage complex.

Since flying again I have had an aircraft hanger for my 172. Had I known about hangers I would have rented a hanger when I was 20, airplane or not. I would probably still be married. One of the most peaceful places on earth.

The FAA won't let people use airport hangers for non-aircraft purposes though you'd have to go through a bunch of airports to find one that complies. Mine is an end T so I have lots of room for my Roadtrek.

Steve

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

But you can't live there.

As I understand the problem, the OP is being told he cannot park his camper at his residence for a couple of hours to load for a trip, in apparent contradiction to the CCR's. He already has a place to store the camper off-site, not as fancy, but adequate. Either way- rented RV storage or condo garage- you have to shuttle your supplies to the storage site, load the camper, and leave your personal vehicle there while you're traveling. It would surely be more convenient to load from home, and the rules appear to allow it.

I guess he could just pretend it's a yacht. Plenty of those in the Bay Area. Owners know the shuttle routine and ways to make it efficient. Perhaps if he used yacht-styled totes, the neighbors would be impressed and unbend!

I've seen a lot of elaborate setups at our annual open house at the garage. A lot of people have built mezzanines just for a man cave lounge with big screen TV's, put in kitchens, bathrooms, etc. I just use my van for those activities. One could live there roughing it no different than being on the road.

We have done it both ways, bringing our van home to load up. It takes about an hour or just shuttle in our car and leaving it at the garage while away. Only food, clothes and personal gear need to be transferred as we have it down pat with everything ready to go.

I suspect from the descriptions provided the OP has burned some bridges with the neighbors and HOA in regard loading and unloading at the house. That is unusual to not be able to do so.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Davydd

One could live there roughing it no different than being on the road.

Perhaps I should have said “mayn’t.” Rules do not permit full-time occupancy, at least according to the little I’ve read about garage condos.

Of course you could. Shoot, people in the Bay Area can live in tents and cardboard boxes.

[werdnash2002]

No joke they are installing a security camera across my from home today! This is getting ridiculous. Link to Google picture above not sure how to post pictures on here any other way

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by werdnash2002

No joke they are installing a security camera across my from home today! This is getting ridiculous. Link to Google picture above not sure how to post pictures on here any other way

I upload all my photos used on this board under Community:Pictures & Albums

Then I copy and paste the IMG url this board provides.

[JustFoolingAround]

I am by no means an expert on California HOAs, just a lowly IT tech who worked for a City that dealt with HOAs on many issues. If I were in your situation, this would be MY first step: I am wondering if anyone else in your neighborhood uses an RV. That is who I would approach and enlighten them as to the new CC&R rule about forbidden loading and unloading. Perhaps an existing owner, who is surprised and affected by the NEW rule, would be a better representative in writing to the HOA board and appearing in person at the next meeting. As a renter, I don't think you have any standing. At some HOAs, renters are not even allowed to communicate with or appear before the board, only owners. In the meantime, don't let this situation ruin your relationship with your landlord, neighbors, or your sleep. Accept it and work with the universe. Just get on with enjoying your Van-life, living in San Francisco, and being young and healthy. Sooner or later, this too shall change.

[JohnnyFry]

Unfortunately, nasty neighbors are the ones who cause this sort of trouble. My HOA has a no RV or commercial trucks ruel and I have skirted that rule for 5 years. Luckely, I have neighbors who are on my side and I am prepared to tell the board that the vehicle (210P) is my second car and that I use it in daily use. It might also help to run for an open board position where you can have a voice in passing these rediculous rules. These RVs are basically passanger vans and deserve to be treated as such. Some on this forum have removed all outside decals to make it fit in. Unfortunately, since you are already on the board's Radar this might not help. Best of luck...and I certainly would not worry bringing it is for a few hours or overnight to pack for a trip. I would, frankly, tell them just where they could sitck that notion, and not in a polite way!

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFry

I would, frankly, tell them just where they could sitck that notion, and not in a polite way!

Their weapon is fines, and those fines go to the property owner, not the tenant. Seems as good a way as any to become homeless.

As I interpret the rule quoted in post #20, temporary parking by prohibited vehicles is permitted under certain conditions. However, it references other rules about temporary parking not included in the post, so more information is needed. If a rule specifically excluding campers (and none of the other classes of prohibited vehicles) from the temporary parking provisions was adopted after you moved in, that certainly seems targeted and discriminatory, but only a lawyer can tell you if you have any options to challenge it.

I think the old saw "honey catches more flies than vinegar" applies in this case. It may be too late.

Or, as I've overheard my wife say to one or the other of our teenaged daughters, "You want a fight? Because if you want a fight, I've got one!"

[werdnash2002]

Justfoolingaround. Yes there is a fellow RV owner who i've seen load, unload and clean their RV here. It is a much larger class C and they have a garage that is dedicated to RV supplies. I have been trying to contact them but unfortunately I think they must be on the road currently as no one has been home all week when I i've gone by. That is my plan though to get them on my side to fight the HOA since they are owners I believe. I haven't seen anything else in the CCR's mention RV's other than the above camper rule. I talked to the maintenance guy about the camera and he said exactly what Johnnyfry said, your own their radar and they are watching you closely.