Hey Interblog: Aqua Magic IV

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

The take a lot of energy to turn shtuff to ashes, unfortunately. Regarding your Porta Potti and cassette style, the main differences are:

1. Toilet is mounted so removal of the cassette doesn’t require moving the water tank, open the door and slide out the cassette.

2. Cassettes have wheels, in my age it is important.

3. My 402C has built in outlet for ventilation, the cassette itself is vented.
If you would find these attributes beneficial you could consider replacing you Porta Potti with a cassette style toilet.

I have a spare cassette so my actual volume is 10 gal.

That spare cassette must be a valuable addition.

And of course you are Two & I am only One.

I did look at retrofitting a Traditional Cassette Toilet but decided against it firstly because I would need to cut the first turn of pipe off the Black Tank plumbing to have a Toilet that would still have me depositing on a 3 inch platform & it would eliminate my using the black tank as a secondary storage unit.

Its never the money for me until its the money & then its like all of us, Investment versus Reward.

HAVE YOU George ever experienced the phenomenon discussed here?

How long have you had the unit?

And I see yours is Vented versus mine.

Do you use the Chemicals?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

.....................

HAVE YOU George ever experienced the phenomenon discussed here?

How long have you had the unit?

And I see yours is Vented versus mine.

Do you use the Chemicals?

Since 2013 I never experienced what was shown on FIT-RV blog. He exercised spine bending during emptying the waste tank, perhaps he didn’t know how to use the vent button and wanted to prove spine surgery would be necessary while using Porta Potty.

There are pluses in minuses for any toilet system. I prefer dumping cassette in public restrooms or at home than black tank in dumping stations. If I had a black tank, I would definitely use a macerator pump.

For years I have been using Odorlos, it is a concentrated solution of ammonium nitrate, no formaldehyde no perfumes. It cuts down the odor during open bowl valve and during dumping.

There is another reason why I like cassette, it is due to odor in the garage. My van is absolutely clean in the garage, cassette is dumped and washed. In my past I had odor issue storing RV in the garage, not with the Sprinter.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Since 2013 I never experienced what was shown on FIT-RV blog. He exercised spine bending during emptying the waste tank, perhaps he didn’t know how to use the vent button and wanted to prove spine surgery would be necessary while using Porta Potty.

There are pluses in minuses for any toilet system. I prefer dumping cassette in public restrooms or at home than black tank in dumping stations. If I had a black tank, I would definitely use a macerator pump.

For years I have been using Odorlos, it is a concentrated solution of ammonium nitrate, no formaldehyde no perfumes. It cuts down the odor during open bowl valve and during dumping.

There is another reason why I like cassette, it is due to odor in the garage. My van is absolutely clean in the garage, cassette is dumped and washed. In my past I had odor issue storing RV in the garage, not with the Sprinter.

This is great info, Thank You George.

You have obviously done your homework as to plus & minus equation over a Macerator versus Gravity.

And you would know how to fix/replace a non-working, middle of your trip, maceration issue.

Perhaps their reliability has improved over discussions 5-6 years ago.

As to Odorlos, does the Ammonium Nitrate affect septic tank bacteria or does it become Nitrate?

Have you experienced any Xenophobic Behaviour Stateside since Covid began & you enter & visit different states?

Or is our stateside laissez-faire attitude (in general), not cause people to react when they see your Out of State Plates.

I do understand Interblog's experience, in Canada, as an American with US Plates. Part of their fears are because of our laissez-faire response, in general.

There was a great article that I don't support totally & the writer is known as a back door alarmist but its one firsthanf viewpoint well written eceryone can understand.

Let me find it.

Are you able to always find Public Toilets that are open & relatively clean compared to Dumping Stations on your travels?

But it can happen even within family units.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

.......................
As to Odorlos, does the Ammonium Nitrate affect septic tank bacteria or does it become Nitrate?

Have you experienced any Xenophobic Behaviour Stateside since Covid began & you enter & visit different states?

..........................

Are you able to always find Public Toilets that are open & relatively clean compared to Dumping Stations on your travels?

......................

I think, and I am not biologist, ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) provides oxygen necessary for aerobic bacteria to digest the waste. Ammonium nitrate got a bad press as recently as in Beirut, but not in a liquid form. Germans did even better, long time ago in the Oppau factory producing NH4NO3 fertilizer they store it outside, rain came and solidified it into a mountain. To make it manageable for shipping they broke this solid rock with a few sticks of dynamite. Folks heard the explosions almost 200 miles away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppau_explosion


"Have you experienced any Xenophobic Behaviour Stateside since Covid began & you enter & visit different states?"
No, this year I was replacing my personal tires, built from titanium, cobalt and HDPE, knees are like new.
……………………………………..
"Are you able to always find Public Toilets that are open & relatively clean compared to Dumping Stations on your travels?"

I was never able to decipher what folks had for meal in public restrooms, but in dumping station I could have, especially if folks ate a lot of corn.

[themexicandoctor]

There are multiple Kernels of Truth in your last statement..

[InterBlog]

Regarding the incinerating toilet question, we have a separate thread here which debates its pros and cons. One poster had experience with these devices and passionately hated the things for the odor and clean-up that they required (see near the end of the thread).

What was most interesting about that thread is that we attempted (sigh) to actually produce a semi-quantitative analysis of a toileting scenario for 4 people, living on 1 acre, for 3 months, in New Jersey.

Not surprisingly, we ended up concluding that there is no practical or cost-effective way to provide a responsible off-grid toileting for that many people for that length of time on that small of an acreage. It could be done, but it would most likely end up being either environmentally irresponsible, or not cost-effective, or not logistically achievable, or some combination of those.

That thread reflected one of the paradigms that must be broken if Class B toileting is to evolve, in that we have to adopt a cradle to grave mentality for the process. On-grid toileting solutions are built within the infinite disposal paradigm. From the consumer perspective, our ability to dispose of waste on grid is effectively infinite. We can push the flush lever as many times as we want, and by the way, I don't know why some cats enjoy doing this, but the video below is worth 46 seconds of your time, because someone actually created an original score for it.

The consumer paradigm started with a front-end requirement and constructed a solution at the other end. Travelers who either don't want to access that solution, or who are prohibited from doing so due to non-availability or quarantine restrictions or other factors, need to work the inverse problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFp1z7uA6g

[themexicandoctor]

Great attention to detail.

Excellent article.

The challenge may also be a proof of concept that has a sufficient pool of users that it's financially viable to manufacture.

I don’t know if there is sufficient enough demand.

But of a person is do determimed, you only need a group of one.

If anything, I imagine there would be a European Product first.

The challenge is the Class B - even Class C's either have installed or or the means to add an external flush system so one can dump a big tank & flush almost simultaneously without entry into the debris field.

Yes I know it doesn't answer your bigger challenge, bear with me.

Antherat there are flush products out there like this already but with the long, narrow tanks on my class B, they are not as effective & prone to failure.

By yourself its always a gamble to get enough fresh water into the tank from outside & then open the valve & keep the hose firmly in the fitting, even then there are four separate entries & exits into the vehicle.

I take this very seriously & tried every reasonable work around with a Wayer Spigot mount on the outside of my truck behind the kitchen cabinets - actually its more of a screw open, screw closed access point for my hose to go from a dump station water supply, into the truck, through the cabinets, into the hallway & then be inserted into the toilet.

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It bears repeating that I chose the Porta Potti to avoid contact with Dump Stations.

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And the concept of one large 30 gallon Black Tank custom fabricated to fit my Class B.

(I would still use the Porta Potti, picking it up out of the shower stall where it is stored, placing it in the hallway/aisle, placing my heels on the 2 inch raised platform that is beginning of the Traditional U Shaped Dinette most Class B's utilize, allows me a more natural, relaxed & efficient way to empty the large colon when sitting down)

It doesn't eliminate my contact with dump stations but instead, extends my contact to a 30 day interval as opposed to every 10 days.

I get RV Envy everytime I see one of those newer Class C & always the Class A units with huge 50 & 75 gallon tanks* where there is very little hose unraveling, dumping is a straight shot & all flushing is down from outside the vehicle, there is a bay dedicated to the hose & fittings which is easy to sanitize & owners can change out of thigh high gunboats & place them in the same bay.

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Again, imperfect but even dumping every 5 days into a conventional toilet is a welcome relief & better health practice than visiting a dump station every 10 days.

No hoses.

No getting down into the debris field.

Not having to then flush the black tank & going in & out of the truck.

Yesterday I went to Hyperion & dumped the Porta Potti, with cleaning the contact time was 25% and I could carry the cassette to the easiest, cleanest vantage point.

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I think until we find a way to eliminate energy intake via the digestive system, outgoing will always remain.

But larger tanks reduce the frequency - could be a possibility very soon - I might drive out to Adelanto today & meet with Inca Plastics.

Unfortunately the Class B is limited.

--------------------------

Interblog the only other scenario we found was perhaps the joining of gut bacteria being deposited by multiple people, essentially strangers to the others microbiome, could be the cause of your phenomenon while camping years ago.

It may not be true today, especially if what is being melded is a couple who share pretty much the same mictobiome ie; you & your husband

Or that you can find a suitable medium that would mask the odors but not damage the conversion process.

Or as I am sure your zealot like approach will effect, a solution worthy of Tesla ...

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Well nevermind then. That's what happens when I wake up at 3am and can't get back to sleep.

Have fun, I am.

Been there, continue to be there, its a feature of being above ground ... SMILE!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

It bears repeating that I chose the Porta Potti to avoid contact with Dump Stations.

Just out of curiosity, did your previous experience with black tanks and dump stations involve sealed, macerator systems, or just "stinky-slinkies"?

I ask because, although I totally agree with your serious concern about contacting other peoples' sewage in the age of Covid, my experience with several macerator-based systems is that it totally obviates any concern about such contact. With my system, there is no reasonable likelihood of such contact except the sole of one shoe (for lifting the dump station lid), and even that could be easily prevented with a disposable bootie. Although, obviously, I carefully wash my hands after each dump, it almost feels redundant, since the lack of contact is obvious. It is an entirely different experience than a slinky dump. I can almost guarantee that the risk is much lower than dumping a porta-potty.

I do realize that some dump stations (especially in urban areas) may simply represent unacceptable environments. My experience is pretty much limited to campground dump stations, which have been almost universally acceptable in this regard, in my experience.

[themexicandoctor]

Yes, I used to use the Slinky Hose.

Non Macerator type.

I chose this because of the issues I read about 5-7 years ago plud it wasn't standard with my earlier model.

I will try to find some photos but rarely around LA, trips to Northern California, etc do I find a Dump Station, that works with my Class B as it is configured.

Tanks on Passenger Side along with Toilet Plumbing.

Dump Hose surrounded by PVC Pipe running from the Passenger Side to the Little Door which oneopens, flips up to access the disconnect pin & unscrew drain cap & then pull out the coiled hose.*

*I have a typical hose, 10 feet & its been upgraded to the better quality Rhino product.

Then I have a highly sophisticated plumbed extender system of my own design that has been field tested that attaches to the hose (photo coming).

*at the Dockweiler RV Park, one can drive a vehicle over the dump station hole of a which there is a Smart Concrete Apron designed to catch overflow.

*at Dockweiler one pays $15 each dump & the hours were 8am-7pm, seven days per week & you get all the free potable water you need.

*there is no need for any attachments at all, one just puts the hose in the hole & opens the valve with care that it doesn't snake itself loose with the sudden flow of the first pass of mixed solids & water or increasingly clear, second or third freshwater flushes.

Now even though my Truck has been lifted higher & higher & higher there is a design issue that happens when you go to run of the mill dump stations (photo coming).

Specifically there is a lip of lower fiberglass of which the door attaches to a latch, straight down the shute its not an issue, with a large sloped 4 cornered smooth concrete apron thst is level with the road surface but causes all mistakes to flow down into the Shute (usually), its a pleasure as much as Black Tank Dumping can be.

However where one has to access from my rig, an extended hose use & there is generally always a raised bunker design with a 3-5 inch rectangular or square apron so not only do I need to stretch out the hose but I also need to put the hose down & slightly kink the hose & then raise it up over the apron until it can flow down again so in the very least it requires more, full tank fkushes of fresh water to get the hose reasonably flushed of particulate.

Unfortunately few Dump Stations are this easy.

Dockweiler is run by LA County & although it has a beachside location, its directly under the path of LAX Jets departing. Just a side comment, I don't think it has any effect in black tank dumping dynamics.

But the clientele is typically 50% of RV Rentals so by design I think they made the dump ststion as foolproof as possible.

I have dumped in 9 years, almost 400 times & I too, have had two or three occasions where "situations happened..."

TO BE CONTINUED

[themexicandoctor]

Now the only other option is Hyperion Sewage Plant, 1/2 mile away.

Every January 1st Dockweiler is closed for one month of repairs & everyone usually has to use Hyperion above.

Unfortunately for those still dumping black tanks, Dockweiler RV Park is NOW A CLOSED OFF ENVIRONMENT OF 128 CITY PURCHASED RVS to house & quarantine Covid Patients who are homeless.

Its been this way for 6 months.

And this is where you run into a more challenging dump situation if you have a Class B.


Los Angeles is a City of 11.8 million people & we have two Dump Stations, situated at the Beach, within 1/2 mile if each other. GO FIGURE.

Now my peers who are Physicians that meet up every year, there is 8 of us & we all have different rigs including my friend who just received his brand new, $800,000 Renegade with a 75 Gallon Black Tank, not all of us have sn isdue at Hyperion but two of us do.

Namely that because people (not mentioning any types from the Millionaires with their big rigs to the Homeless whose crippled rigs barely make it into the Facility or everyone in between), have been unable to control their rigs& have crashed into so many immovable objects that the City built a restrictive enclosure so no-one can park, OVER the hole, there is an Apron which is surrounded by a corrugated black top & sea of dirty water that never, ever drains.

So at any time, for anyone who dumps, one cannot help but park & work in this Salton Sea of Filth.

So I had to construct my extension (photo coming), and if I park within a half inch of my fiberglass ground effects I can attach the extension to the hose & install firmly in the hole.

Without being graphic, frequently unlucky individuals as I have mentioned in other threads will have catastrophic failures of their black tanks & hoses on the way to the facility, while waiting in line at the facility, as they approach the final few feet of the dump station or as they are parked next to it, and the failure occurs at the tank fitting, the hoses or a combination thereof.

Or they overshoot both the hole & the apron and their contents spill over and into the other road - this is the route I use to approach "The Hole" with my Porta Potti & let it flow from the apron edge which is easily washed down by the hose.

By the way, there is ABSOLUTE NO ACCESS TO THE POTABLE WATER SPIGOT AGAINST THE WEST WALL.

Not to be confused with the Western Wall pictured.

Any & all water for flushing is non potable water.

One never needs to ask twice if one can please use the Potable Water to refill the tanks as you are informed "Don't be a Troublemaker or you will be banned from using the Facility. That our tax dollars pay for. Documented many times, to the point we always ask Dr Renegade RV to ask for us twice instead.

So even if you have a long hose, you are still walking through it.

Many, many, many times over the 9 years there have been numerous medical professionals, sanitation engineers & the like have suggested how some simple & inexpensive changes SHOULD be made to the Dumping Arrangements only to fall on Deaf Ears or the recommendation of "Hey, its FREE, if you don't like it, drive 15 miles to the nearest Private Facility ..."

A faciliry with limited hours, frequent last minute Health Department closures & 15 miles travel in Los Angeles is usually 60 plus ninutes, one way.

And as I mentioned previously often I have used other dump stations around California but 9 out of 10 of them, when you need to dump, have a design issue or issues that make Class B Dumping not impossible but certainly with an increasing curve of difficulty.

And during the early Covid when I was at the Ranch in Mendocino, I discovered many Dump Stations either closed for business or not interedsted in Dump Only business.

Los Angeles City & County have made it clear, its not RV Friendly.

[themexicandoctor]

Here is a photo of the Hyperion Dump Station on August 4th 2020 at 2.48pm.

Even though we are 1/4th of a mile from the Beach that is not the Ocean you see underneath that Class C.

Its a dry day in Paradise.

You can see the latest yelllow bollards erected by the City that protrude out to the point thst even with the 10 foot hose & the Extension I made I only just reach "The Hole ..."

I had to remove the other guy's License Plate but that flood extends way beyond what you can see.

With my Porta Potti, if its not Flooded on the other street to the left where Red Curb is, I approach from that side, dump into the apron and wash all particulate down.

I have only used 3 times in the last 6 months, on one occasion it was so flooded with oversell of obvious sewage, on the other street also.

So I drove my rig up as close as I could, stayed in the truck & deposited my slurry from there Porta Potti into the apron from there & drove on the freeway for 30 minutes to nowhere & back.

Like I have mentioned before, there is nothimg like a Dump Station visit to make you feel like a Newbie ...

[InterBlog]

Boondockers, off-grinders, and van camping minimalists are very conscious of the ways in which a minority of actors ruin certain opportunities for the rest of us, by not being mindful of their impacts and the perceptions that they generate.

Another concurrent Class B Forum thread suggests that, with the increase in pandemic-related outdoor activities, there has been an increase in improper disposal of raw sewage in National Forests. That kind of behavior gets camping areas closed at breakneck speed, which impacts everyone, and impacts the careful campers disproportionately. It only takes a few idiots to trigger new restrictions.

That being said, I pray that there are successive improvements in the area of human waste management. I am interested in the topic from a personal perspective, because I need those improvements for my travel scenarios. But I am also interested because I see the handwriting on the larger wall. The triple whammy of shrinking government budgets (with park staff reductions), increased access pressures (due to newbies being driven to outdoor activities), and poor toileting technology (leading some people to dump), is going to bite all of us.

Any method that encourages illegal dumping due to the foulness of the method... well, let’s just say that I fervently hope its market share remains small. The more benign the process is on the waste delivery end, the more it encourages responsible management, and the better the direct and indirect outcomes for all of us.

Related to this, I’ve got a thread on Airforums titled “Buying your own boondocking land”. It goes into a bit of greater detail about human waste management strategies.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Boondockers, off-grinders, and van camping minimalists are very conscious of the ways in which a minority of actors ruin certain opportunities for the rest of us, by not being mindful of their impacts and the perceptions that they generate.

Another concurrent Class B Forum thread suggests that, with the increase in pandemic-related outdoor activities, there has been an increase in improper disposal of raw sewage in National Forests. That kind of behavior gets camping areas closed at breakneck speed, which impacts everyone, and impacts the careful campers disproportionately. It only takes a few idiots to trigger new restrictions.

That being said, I pray that there are successive improvements in the area of human waste management. I am interested in the topic from a personal perspective, because I need those improvements for my travel scenarios. But I am also interested because I see the handwriting on the larger wall. The triple whammy of shrinking government budgets (with park staff reductions), increased access pressures (due to newbies being driven to outdoor activities), and poor toileting technology (leading some people to dump), is going to bite all of us.

Any method that encourages illegal dumping due to the foulness of the method... well, let’s just say that I fervently hope its market share remains small. The more benign the process is on the waste delivery end, the more it encourages responsible management, and the better the direct and indirect outcomes for all of us.

Related to this, I’ve got a thread on Airforums titled “Buying your own boondocking land”. It goes into a bit of greater detail about human waste management strategies.

As I mentioned earlier, you alone could revolutionize the market.

In a better world for you but not the perfect one, what are you looking for, what imperfectly perfect change in your RV Effluent Experience, outside of the perfect world of zero waste produced, on the road while traveling ie;

1. Less frequent dumping?

2. Less dumping & a recycling or secondary capture & use of your effluent?

3. NO Dumping but a complete recycling & secondary capture & use of your effluent?

What would a reasonable future scenario for you as a traveler versus boondocking, etc.