Hey Interblog: Aqua Magic IV

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Xenophobic might be too harsh a term.

....

You will find that your forum experience is optimized when you stick to your own areas of expertise, rather than speculating about others. Speak from experience, as I am doing.

I have no intention of making political statements here - my point is to address the purely-logistical challenges that are arising in a world that is changing at breakneck speed.

Some of the bedrock travel assumptions that we vanners took for granted 6 months ago have flown out the window. If we want to travel in affected contexts and areas, then we have to develop logistical workarounds.

Toileting is one such context where changes will need to be made, and Canada is one such area. American citizens and Canadian U.S. residents used to be able to count on Canadian businesses selling us goods and services in the same manner that they do for local people. But now, anti-American sentiment is running so high that 88% of Atlantic Canadians "completely oppose" opening the U.S. - Canada border, and for those who do make it across, we cannot count on goods and services any longer.

Let that sink in: COMPLETELY oppose - passionately oppose - and they make no distinction between an American and a Canadian with an American license plate. Certainly not every one of those opposers will react with violence or vandalism or bullying or shaming or service denials at the sight of an American license plate, but 88% are reacting with repulsion at a minimum. And there is a precisely-defined word in the English language for that behavioral phenomenon: Xenophobia.

As a vanner, I did not get denied service in August when I was in Canada, but that was because I did not seek service as someone visibly associated with America. I simply did not bother because I knew what the outcome would likely be.

-- We did not attempt to camp at private or government facilities.
-- We did not attempt to dump our tanks or take on fresh water while in the province (we re-filled our fresh tank by filling MSR Dromedary bladders with water at my father's residence and squirting it into the tank's side portal).
-- We did not park in any public parking lots where our van could be targeted.
-- To respond to those situations where we were unavoidably visible, I created car signs similar to the Ontario family referenced in the image below.
--When I needed to buy groceries or other essentials, I borrowed my father's car with its Nova Scotia license plates.

Everything possible was done on the down-low to avoid outing and confrontations.

But my workarounds still have a lot of room for improvement, including the toileting workarounds. That's what I'm dealing with now, hence my comments above.

Some headlines and data in the composite image below, in case there are any remaining doubters out there as to the accuracy of the information that I am conveying. (For those not familiar with the Canadian political structure, Premier is roughly equivalent to Governor).

As Ferris Bueller famously said, "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." Some people have, indeed, missed this social transformation that is currently underway.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

You will find that your forum experience is optimized when you stick to your own areas of expertise, rather than speculating about others. Speak from experience, as I am doing.

I have no intention of making political statements here - my point is to address the purely-logistical challenges that are arising in a world that is changing at breakneck speed.

Some of the bedrock travel assumptions that we vanners took for granted 6 months ago have flown out the window. If we want to travel in affected contexts and areas, then we have to develop logistical workarounds.

Toileting is one such context where changes will need to be made, and Canada is one such area. American citizens and Canadian U.S. residents used to be able to count on Canadian businesses selling us goods and services in the same manner that they do for local people. But now, anti-American sentiment is running so high that 88% of Atlantic Canadians "completely oppose" opening the U.S. - Canada border, and for those who do make it across, we cannot count on goods and services any longer.

Let that sink in: COMPLETELY oppose - passionately oppose - and they make no distinction between an American and a Canadian with an American license plate. Certainly not every one of those opposers will react with violence or vandalism or bullying or shaming or service denials at the sight of an American license plate, but 88% are reacting with repulsion at a minimum. And there is a precisely-defined word in the English language for that behavioral phenomenon: Xenophobia.

As a vanner, I did not get denied service in August when I was in Canada, but that was because I did not seek service as someone visibly associated with America. I simply did not bother because I knew what the outcome would likely be.

-- We did not attempt to camp at private or government facilities.
-- We did not attempt to dump our tanks or take on fresh water while in the province (we re-filled our fresh tank by filling MSR Dromedary bladders with water at my father's residence and squirting it into the tank's side portal).
-- We did not park in any public parking lots where our van could be targeted.
-- To respond to those situations where we were unavoidably visible, I created car signs similar to the Ontario family referenced in the image below.
--When I needed to buy groceries or other essentials, I borrowed my father's car with its Nova Scotia license plates.

Everything possible was done on the down-low to avoid outing and confrontations.

But my workarounds still have a lot of room for improvement, including the toileting workarounds. That's what I'm dealing with now, hence my comments above.

Some headlines and data in the composite image below, in case there are any remaining doubters out there as to the accuracy of the information that I am conveying. (For those not familiar with the Canadian political structure, Premier is roughly equivalent to Governor).

As Ferris Bueller famously said, "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." Some people have, indeed, missed this social transformation that is currently underway.

Xenophobic is a harsh term.

And 32 years with the State Dept as a first choice Contractor for the good guys entering & fixing pronlems in the 3rd & 4th World gives me perfect insight - effecting false flag assignments, head of the snake changes, motivating tribal warfare, etc qualifies my experience.

This is my expertise, Human Nature.

And this is a perfect example of Human Nature when something like Covid happens.

What you have been talking about is old news.

And it is how I expect people who have been living outside of a containment zone to react to strangers, even if they left said zone as healthy citizens a week or so before.

This the "In the Bubble, Outside of the Bubble" Mentality that has always been part of our psyche.

My first 23 years were spent in NZ, IF I wanted to go back, it would be a minimum 2 week Quarantine Period, no contact.

It's what I would expect.

I most certainly wouldn't be visiting Canada right now.

And there are many reasons why Canada should be leery of American travelers.

At times, they are leery of people within their own group.

Very soon if the Paper Tiger Virus is reconfigured for the 3rd time, we might see this same behaviour from our own towns & families.

But again, its our Human Nature ...

[themexicandoctor]

Interblog,

Had my Fortnightly Assistant read your entries, she is much nicer than I.

But having lived on the periphery of the Third World while fighting the good fight I tend to be a lot more grateful than most for what is required in front of me.

I am limited also by the Porta Potti's 5 gallons capacity (5.5 gallons is to the very top), & if needed, my 10 gallon black tank.

And I do not intend on purchasing a Class C in order to get a 15-30 gallon black tank.

I, like you do not believe Composting Toilets are a solution at all. Personally I think it was all about anpther revenue source for FitRV.

But I did consider removing my 23 gallon Gray Tank & 10 gallon Black Tank & have a company called INCA PLASTICS in Southern California custom manufacture for me a single large Black Tank of up to 30 Gallons with a singular 3-5 gallon Gray Tank that I would bleed off in legal manner.

I forgot all about this but my Assistant remembered.

30 galons would be a month between Dump Stations for me as a single person.

Or 15 days for a couple.

Yes there would be the cost of fabricating a one off tank design, but that could perhaps be offset in the future by commissions paid whenever any other Class B owners decide to follow suit.

There would be the cost of reconfiguring the dump valve system or maybe not.

And some labour & materials to install the new tank.

Has to be $750-1500 total.

If it increases my original dump station vsit from 10 days to 30 days, I think it would lessen the dump station frequency for others by a multiple of three.

Again its not the perfect solution but here in Los Angeles where my clients live & I park mostly in the Hollywood Hills, Bel Air, Santa Monica & Marina neighborhoods, there is only 4 Dump Stations.

2 of them, one in Burbank called Metro RV & Benchmark in Sun Valley (both 45-60 minutes in LA Traffic), charge $25 to dump & half the time they are closed by the Health Dept, especially the former as they are unsanitary to say the least.

They are so bad, I haven't visited them in 5 years.

And then the other two are within 1/2 mile of each other at Dockweiler Beach & LAX, one facility is only $15 & its clean, easy & almost impossible to screw up - its in a Country run RV Park and the hours are 8am-7pm 11 months per year.

The second is at the Hyperion Sewage Plant, run by the City. Open 3 hours per day to the Public, Monfmday to Friday.

Its Free but a horror story if you understand Hygiene. Used by people traveling & the Homeless Population.

There is a couple of other private locations but quite some distance, frequently closed and or out of order.

Just an idea, but for me at the moment, don't mind emptying the Porta Potti every 5 days or so.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Interblog,

Had my Fortnightly Assistant read your entries, she is much nicer than I.

But having lived on the periphery of the Third World while fighting the good fight I tend to be a lot more grateful than most for what is required in front of me.

I am limited also by the Porta Potti's 5 gallons capacity (5.5 gallons is to the very top), & if needed, my 10 gallon black tank.

And I do not intend on purchasing a Class C in order to get a 15-30 gallon black tank.

I, like you do not believe Composting Toilets are a solution at all. Personally I think it was all about anpther revenue source for FitRV.

But I did consider removing my 23 gallon Gray Tank & 10 gallon Black Tank & have a company called INCA PLASTICS in Southern California custom manufacture for me a single large Black Tank of up to 30 Gallons with a singular 3-5 gallon Gray Tank that I would bleed off in legal manner.

I forgot all about this but my Assistant remembered.

30 galons would be a month between Dump Stations for me as a single person.

Or 15 days for a couple.

Yes there would be the cost of fabricating a one off tank design, but that could perhaps be offset in the future by commissions paid whenever any other Class B owners decide to follow suit.

There would be the cost of reconfiguring the dump valve system or maybe not.

And some labour & materials to install the new tank.

Has to be $750-1500 total.

If it increases my original dump station vsit from 10 days to 30 days, I think it would lessen the dump station frequency for others by a multiple of three.

Again its not the perfect solution but here in Los Angeles where my clients live & I park mostly in the Hollywood Hills, Bel Air, Santa Monica & Marina neighborhoods, there is only 4 Dump Stations.

2 of them, one in Burbank called Metro RV & Benchmark in Sun Valley (both 45-60 minutes in LA Traffic), charge $25 to dump & half the time they are closed by the Health Dept, especially the former as they are unsanitary to say the least.

They are so bad, I haven't visited them in 5 years.

And then the other two are within 1/2 mile of each other at Dockweiler Beach & LAX, one facility is only $15 & its clean, easy & almost impossible to screw up - its in a Country run RV Park and the hours are 8am-7pm 11 months per year.

The second is at the Hyperion Sewage Plant, run by the City. Open 3 hours per day to the Public, Monfmday to Friday.

Its Free but a horror story if you understand Hygiene. Used by people traveling & the Homeless Population.

There is a couple of other private locations but quite some distance, frequently closed and or out of order.

Just an idea, but for me at the moment, don't mind emptying the Porta Potti every 5 days or so.

A simpler idea for more grey water storage might involve installing another drain valve down stream from the current ones. This way you could simply open both of the original valves and use the now unused black tank for extra grey water. This system would retain the original functions of the RT in case you or a subsequent owner would want that.

Curious, though. How do you get from 23 gallons dumping every 10 days to 30 gallons lasting a month?

[InterBlog]

On the thread's core subject of toileting...

In my opinion, the self-contained porta-potty described by themexicandoctor is *THE* single worst option on the market.

I own one of them, and used it at length at an earlier time in my life, when I was introducing a troop of Girl Scout Daisies (kindergarteners and first graders) to car camping. These were urban young ladies who were not raised to squat on the ground in the great outdoors, as I was as a child. It was a foreign concept to them, and to ease their transition to a scenario that involved a certain amount of roughing it, I bought what was, at the time, considered to be a portable sailboat toilet.

OMG, it was utterly way beyond horrible. It had none of the pros of a black tank system and all of the cons:

-- It cannot segregate waste.
-- It does not manage waste by covering solids with layer of water and by diluting liquids, as a black tank system does.
-- It cannot minimize the exposure of the mixed waste to odor-amplifying oxygen.

Years later when I saw FitRV's *scathing* review of cassette toilets, I laughed out loud, remembering the very same horror I felt at having to manage waste collected in a sailboat toilet, which is the same construct.

You can walk into Cracker Barrel with a segregated oxygen-deprived jug of almost-sterile urine discretely hidden in a shoulder tote bag, empty that in a toilet, and nobody will realize what you are doing - the odor generated by that action is surprisingly low. I speak from experience.

If you tried to perform a similar emptying task with a 5-day-old mixed waste cassette, the restaurant might have to evacuate. Without question, patrons would flee. I am absolutely not joking.

Bottom line:

Successful human waste management requires that ALL steps in the process be achievable under the travel scenarios engaged. In our case, it would gain us nothing to install a toilet apparatus in our van that would leave us every bit as tied to RV dump stations as a blank tank system does, because the intrinsic foulness of the method would preclude any other disposal option.

If you haven't seen this hilarious presentation, it starts at the 7 minute mark. I absolutely concur with everything they present here, based on my own experience with the toilet in question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-Z8DdrtuVo

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by SteveJ

A simpler idea for more grey water storage might involve installing another drain valve down stream from the current ones. This way you could simply open both of the original valves and use the now unused black tank for extra grey water. This system would retain the original functions of the RT in case you or a subsequent owner would want that.

Curious, though. How do you get from 23 gallons dumping every 10 days to 30 gallons lasting a month?

You do not increase the Gray Tank.

You increase the Black Tank from 10 Gallons to one large 30 Gallon Black Tank.

[themexicandoctor]

The Fraud presented by FitRV in making this video has been covered by numerous posters ever since it first appeared.

We pointed out this fact earlier.

This presentation is a Complete & Utter Fraud.

Or as I pointed out months ago it could have been something in their diet that week as they were under a lot of financial stress around this time (before talking to others who know this couple well & do business with them).

The clip was so blatant that at I did some digging.

Surely you can see this for yourself?

[themexicandoctor]

Not going into their motivations here.

There are more Cassette/Magazine/Porta Potti units than Class B's in the World.

Have you ever seen another video that talks about emptying such devices, on any platform, anywhere in the World?

Of course not.

Because it isn't True.

This video is a complete fabrication.

Sometimes I use the Thetford Chemical, sometimes I do not & the difference is minimal.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Not going into their motivations here.

There are more Cassette/Magazine/Porta Potti units than Class B's in the World.

Have you ever seen another video that talks about emptying such devices, on any platform, anywhere in the World?

Of course not.

Because it isn't True.

This video is a complete fabrication.

Sometimes I use the Thetford Chemical, sometimes I do not & the difference is minimal.

"Not going into their motivations here."

You just did in the previous post.

I missed the 'evidence' in your previous post of "fraud", "This presentation is a Complete & Utter Fraud.". If you can post the evidence without rambling on and on, be specific, ........... I would like to read it.

Bud

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

The Fraud presented by FitRV in making this video has been covered by numerous posters ever since it first appeared.

We pointed out this fact earlier.

This presentation is a Complete & Utter Fraud.

Or as I pointed out months ago it could have been something in their diet that week as they were under a lot of financial stress around this time (before talking to others who know this couple well & do business with them).

The clip was so blatant that at I did some digging.

Surely you can see this for yourself?

I have no patience for these guys, but did see this video of ambassadorship of composting toilet by criticizing competing products such as in this case a Porta Patti. I have seen this video being posted many times, must have a lot of bottom screen clicks.

Recently someone posted a video on this forum about using small 120VAC refrigerator in his full-time van. This is the fellow who prepared salad with dressing for a week daily consumption. But the high light of this video was how he connected green, black and white wires to his battery system. A salad for a week could some digestion problems, but green/black/white battery wiring could cause fire. He was asking to click the bottom of the screen, I guess 21st Century way of life.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

The Fraud presented by FitRV in making this video has been covered by numerous posters ever since it first appeared.

We pointed out this fact earlier.

This presentation is a Complete & Utter Fraud.

Or as I pointed out months ago it could have been something in their diet that week as they were under a lot of financial stress around this time (before talking to others who know this couple well & do business with them).

The clip was so blatant that at I did some digging.

Surely you can see this for yourself?

Did you not read my post?

I OWN ONE OF THESE TOILETS MYSELF. I HAVE HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE MYSELF.

There is no fraud here, and trust me, it was nothing my little Girl Scout Daisies ate. This is just the nature of uncontrolled human waste. This is why we spend trillions of dollars on intricate fixed waste processing systems in our societies. Because it's worth it.

Did I miss something? Are you a product ambassador for these portable toilets?

I am not an ambassador for any product - in fact, I am dissatisfied with all of them, to the extent that I am trying to develop my own improvements. I need to, given the travel restrictions I face.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Not going into their motivations here."

You just did in the previous post.

I missed the 'evidence' in your previous post of "fraud", "This presentation is a Complete & Utter Fraud.". If you can post the evidence without rambling on and on, be specific, ........... I would like to read it.

Bud

We do not need to put too fine a point on it here, the shared consensus was unanimous.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Did you not read my post?

I OWN ONE OF THESE TOILETS MYSELF. I HAVE HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE MYSELF.

There is no fraud here, and trust me, it was nothing my little Girl Scout Daisies ate. This is just the nature of uncontrolled human waste. This is why we spend trillions of dollars on intricate fixed waste processing systems in our societies. Because it's worth it.

Did I miss something? Are you a product ambassador for these portable toilets?

I am not an ambassador for any product - in fact, I am dissatisfied with all of them, to the extent that I am trying to develop my own improvements. I need to, given the travel restrictions I face.

As I mentioned in another post, we are not here to dictate with strong language what others should do, even if we feel we were in a similar* position & were looking for a work around & wanted to share a solution, we found.

ie; using precise language when talking about amps OR amp hours, volts OR watts is critical as they are mathematical measurements.

But when it comes to using words, especially with those that appear to be in high stress over a particular Class B issue but don't seem to be getting any traction, its important to point to ideas like signposts & let the other person, looking for a solution, follow up with their own detailed due diligence.

Otherwise you bring your stress into the forum, into posts like yours is being presented. Then people do not want to help you & don't feel like participating.

And we all miss out.

I don't mind offering my 2 cents worth.

The Porta Potti is a vast improvement over using Dump Stations & Black Tanks for me personally.

And it allows other Class B pwners who are traveling to use Public Toilets - I use those of my Client's & Patient's, never had a complaint.

But its imperfect.

Adding a 30 gallon tank is also imperfect but if I was stuck, its an idea worth exploring.

*the concept of similar works for some who are open & grateful but it doesn't work for those who are looking to split hairs & pass on their stress.

We are here to help each other, to work around the Class B negatives & positives.

As we have on other threads, God knows how hard I tried to make the same Vitrifrigo you recommended fit into my RV but it would have required to much movement of fixtures like the Hot Water Heater, the Sink, etc just because of 1/2 an inch.

The consensus amongst my peers, sent it to 42 Internists & Gastroentrologists months ago looking for a possible answer to the previously thought Unicorn Scenario of FitRV

35* have replied including 8 from our San Francisco Group who we meet each year, in the RV's we own, in Big Sur that some individuals, especially high strung types, with a constellation of other stresses, should avoid using the Porta Potti idea.

*Covid gives even the MD's to comment where'as in the USA I am only a Physiologist.

Bottom line; the Porta Potti is not for you InterBlog.

Or the FitRV Folks.

At this time in your lives.

There is 350 million other Americans alone that it should work for.

Or the millions of Europeans for whom the choice is made for them.

Time to press the NEXT BUTTON ...

[Bud]

"But when it comes to using words, especially with those that appear to be in high stress over a particular Class B issue but don't seem to be getting any traction, its important to point to ideas like signposts & let the other person, looking for a solution, follow up with their own detailed due diligence.

Otherwise you bring your stress into the forum, into posts like yours is being presented. Then people do not want to help you & don't feel like participating.

And we all miss out."


I can't imagine that you were speaking about, lecturing the InterBlog girl - must have been a mirror near by.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

You do not increase the Gray Tank.

You increase the Black Tank from 10 Gallons to one large 30 Gallon Black Tank.

Well nevermind then. That's what happens when I wake up at 3am and can't get back to sleep.

Have fun, I am.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by Bud

"But when it comes to using words, especially with those that appear to be in high stress over a particular Class B issue but don't seem to be getting any traction, its important to point to ideas like signposts & let the other person, looking for a solution, follow up with their own detailed due diligence.

Otherwise you bring your stress into the forum, into posts like yours is being presented. Then people do not want to help you & don't feel like participating.

And we all miss out."


I can't imagine that you were speaking about, lecturing the InterBlog girl - must have been a mirror near by.

Excuse my background in Human Sciences.

Or the fact that we have a shared opinion between Interblog & FitRV that is underpinned by stress.

There was a tag line on the bottom stating press the NEXT BUTTON.

It applies to all of us even those whose posts historically cause a lot of contention and I am talking about you Bud.

Whenever you get into it with some of the more technically knowledgeable posters like Booster, etc my comments are always "I see Nothing, I hear Nothing ..."

On the subject at hand, in this thread, Interblog disagrees with my workaround as she should because of her own individual experiences.

But on another thread, I listened to whst she presented & tried to effect the same workaround to the point of ordering the fridge she discussed only to find out the Sakesman wasn't knowledgeable about his own product.

50% or one out of two is a good ratio I think, considering the vagaries of Human Nature.

I agree to disagree with her in this matter.

But its not a shared consensus or there would be zero market for cassette/magazine toilets, in fact its quite the opposite.

And being an Open & Engaging person as a Civilian, I woukd be the first to share if I had a Porta Potti experience like FitRV or Interblog.

Time to move along Bud ...

[themexicandoctor]

As in, is there anyone amongst us, who have any first hand experience or knowledge of this alternative;

https://www.google.com/search?q=rv+i...obile&ie=UTF-8

[Bud]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Excuse my background in Human Sciences.

Or the fact that we have a shared opinion between Interblog & FitRV that is underpinned by stress.

There was a tag line on the bottom stating press the NEXT BUTTON.

It applies to all of us even those whose posts historically cause a lot of contention and I am talking about you Bud.

Whenever you get into it with some of the more technically knowledgeable posters like Booster, etc my comments are always "I see Nothing, I hear Nothing ..."

On the subject at hand, in this thread, Interblog disagrees with my workaround as she should because of her own individual experiences.

But on another thread, I listened to whst she presented & tried to effect the same workaround to the point of ordering the fridge she discussed only to find out the Sakesman wasn't knowledgeable about his own product.

50% or one out of two is a good ratio I think, considering the vagaries of Human Nature.

I agree to disagree with her in this matter.

But its not a shared consensus or there would be zero market for cassette/magazine toilets, in fact its quite the opposite.

And being an Open & Engaging person as a Civilian, I woukd be the first to share if I had a Porta Potti experience like FitRV or Interblog.

Time to move along Bud ...

No thanks. You might want to quote me, rather than making claims.

Why should InterBlog or me move on after the words you spoke and I quoted. Because you ended with "Time to press the NEXT BUTTON ..." That is nothing like "I agree to disagree with her in this matter."

"It applies to all of us even those whose posts historically cause a lot of contention and I am talking about you Bud."

Again, present some evidence. When someone arrives and spouts stuff, I may speak up like many here. If I get it wrong, I want to know. I sometimes say "please correct my thinking here".

I'll sign off with "Time to press the NEXT BUTTON ..." , "Time to move along........"

[avanti]

From your Site Team:
If the bickering continues, this thread will be cleaned up and closed. Please, folks, stay on topic and avoid ad hominem comments.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

As in, is there anyone amongst us, who have any first hand experience or knowledge of this alternative;

https://www.google.com/search?q=rv+i...obile&ie=UTF-8

The take a lot of energy to turn shtuff to ashes, unfortunately. Regarding your Porta Potti and cassette style, the main differences are:

1. Toilet is mounted so removal of the cassette doesn’t require moving the water tank, open the door and slide out the cassette.

2. Cassettes have wheels, in my age it is important.

3. My 402C has built in outlet for ventilation, the cassette itself is vented.
If you would find these attributes beneficial you could consider replacing you Porta Potti with a cassette style toilet.

I have a spare cassette so my actual volume is 10 gal.