Help us decide

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Li batteries have some limitation for storage and charging in low temperature which could impact your off-season storage requirements or winter camping.

Please define “some”. The only limitation for long term outside storage is you will need a 15 amp 120v AC plug to add a heat source or store in a climate controlled garage (heated) for the batteries in climates that get down to -4 deg. F. By code all homes have an outside electrical source. Those living in condos, apartments, or remote storage may have more of an inconvenience but that can be handled with advanced planning. That simple electrical hookup (not CG standard 30amp)will then take care of charging if you maintain above freezing temperatures. Without an external source if the batteries are inside the coach Winnebago says in the Revel in storage without electrical hookup you might have about a two hour inconvenience before coach temperatures bring up the batteries above freezing before you can charge again. I don’t think they address the -4F limitation of battery freezing. As for the efficacy of winter camping I have have 10 amps of electric heating pads to keep my batteries always above 41F and with 800ah of lithium ion battery power the heating pads don’t take up much battery power when on the road. As for winter limitations I have boondocked off-grid for a week straight in temperatures below freezing 24/7 and have endured an overnight boondock as low as minus 15 degrees F. I doubt many of done that. If you invest in lithium batteries you can have greater electrical convenience than any AGM equipped van. Common sense means you will want to protect your investment with “some” fore thought.

[booster]

I admit I haven't been following this discussion closely or read all the posts, but I think that you need to very carefully evaluate the amount of power you will use, and what it will be used for before jumping in and either buying too much capacity or not enough. Doing the power balance calculations is not horrible to do and can give a decent, but not perfect, estimate of what you would need to have for battery capacity, charging capacity, solar or not, generator or not. Also be sure to carefully look at the upsides and downsides of AGM vs lithium as there are lots of ways each is better or not as good. There is a lot of information on the forum about the both types and the benefits and downsides.



Not very many people really need even as much as 600ah of batteries unless they are going to try to run air conditioning off the batteries, IMO. Most can pretty easily get along very well with 400ah range bank sizes. Again this is where your power balance analysis comes in. It is very typical for a not power conserving van with a compressor frig to use 50-75ah per day unless they are cooking with an induction hot plate also. We have 440ah of AGM batteries, compressor frig, run the microwave and other stuff pretty much at will and almost never even approach being 50% discharged staying of grid for days at a time without driving. We have 300 watts of solar and currently running switchable 120 or 180 amps of alternator charging. We removed the generator several years ago as we never used it once we got the power sorted out and tested.


The idea of big and small inverters is a very good one, and it is what we do also. Our primary inverter is a 2000 watt PSW Magnum MS2000 which is off almost all the time. It is wired to all the regular 110v outlets. It uses 1.4 amps idling, which is typical of most of the better quality larger inverters from what I have seen. We also have two 120 watt Samlex inverters that can be turned on and off and power stuff directly when used so not through the normal outlets. One is used for the audio and tv area, and the other runs a "charging station" for charging the laptop etc. They use in the range of .3 amps idling so much more efficient for small loads and most of the time they are off anyway. It all works very well for us.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Please define “some”. The only limitation for long term outside storage is you will need a 15 amp 120v AC plug to add a heat source or store in a climate controlled garage (heated) for the batteries in climates that get down to -4 deg. F. By code all homes have an outside electrical source. Those living in condos, apartments, or remote storage may have more of an inconvenience but that can be handled with advanced planning. That simple electrical hookup (not CG standard 30amp)will then take care of charging if you maintain above freezing temperatures. Without an external source if the batteries are inside the coach Winnebago says in the Revel in storage without electrical hookup you might have about a two hour inconvenience before coach temperatures bring up the batteries above freezing before you can charge again. I don’t think they address the -4F limitation of battery freezing. As for the efficacy of winter camping I have have 10 amps of electric heating pads to keep my batteries always above 41F and with 800ah of lithium ion battery power the heating pads don’t take up much battery power when on the road. As for winter limitations I have boondocked off-grid for a week straight in temperatures below freezing 24/7 and have endured an overnight boondock as low as minus 15 degrees F. I doubt many of done that. If you invest in lithium batteries you can have greater electrical convenience than any AGM equipped van. Common sense means you will want to protect your investment with “some” fore thought.

Indeed, no access to 120V AC plug during storage in frigid winter areas qualifies well as some. “Common sense means you will want to protect your investment with “some” fore thought” – exactly, and fore thoughts will vary in results for different use patterns, for us it was not spend (invest as you call it) in Li.

Cheers,

[Sensfan]

Originally Posted by RAA357

We have a Onan 2800 on our RT210 Versatile.
I installed two lawn mower style mufflers (tubular type) in line. One 2ft from the generator and the other 2ft from the exhaust end and it is just ad quiet as a Honda generator.

Thanks RAA357. Could you post a photo of your Onan double exhaust system? Did the modification affect performance?

[Belzar]

Cooking outside, pop top, outdoor shower... great things in ideal weather. But when it’s freezing outside and raining/snowing a nice well heated place to cook, bathe, and lounge is nice. For us, that is the difference between having a van vs a tent.
Lack of AC could make resale difficult.

[W9TR]

Originally Posted by Belzar

Cooking outside, pop top, outdoor shower... great things in ideal weather. But when it’s freezing outside and raining/snowing a nice well heated place to cook, bathe, and lounge is nice. For us, that is the difference between having a van vs a tent.
Lack of AC could make resale difficult.

Thanks - this is a great perspective. I tend to think of the optimum use cases and forget about maybe needing to use the shower when it is 39 degrees and raining it. Which it will be.

We have weighed all these comments and have eliminated the Tofino, our previous #1 pick, from consideration.

[Belzar]

39 degrees? Heck, we camp when it’s below zero. ��

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by RAA357

We have a Onan 2800 on our RT210 Versatile.
I installed two lawn mower style mufflers (tubular type) in line. One 2ft from the generator and the other 2ft from the exhaust end and it is just ad quiet as a Honda generator.

Originally Posted by Sensfan

Thanks RAA357. Could you post a photo of your Onan double exhaust system? Did the modification affect performance?

I installed a single Onan Resonator https://www.amazon.com/Cummins-Onan-...s%2C212&sr=8-2 as several others have.

By my old ears, it had a slight effect on sound volume, but mostly deepened the tone a bit and suppressed some the valve noise making the sound more pleasant. A significant upgrade, but no where near a Honda 2200i generator's level of quiet. And it's only my faint recollection that Onan disapproved of adding their resonator under the warranty period. Back-pressure concern perhaps? But now several RV makes include it as standard on new models, so go figure.

I too would like to see a picture of RAA357's mods. Here is what mine looks like and also a pic of someone elses Roadtrek.

[W9TR]

Thanks for the info on the Onan muffler mods - looks like we are going to need them!

Of the three vans on our list, we chose the Thor Tellaro 20AT.

Pros

* It has a very functional pop top that will sleep us comfortably. Kelly and I are 5'4" and 5'9" respectively and will fit up top very comfortably.

* It has the smallest indoor bath we could find. It is not a one piece enclosure but the panels fit tightly and are well caulked. It has a Thetford cassette toilet that rotates to give you more room for your feet. It has a power vent to the outside.

* It has a large platform bed in the back. The bed support slides out from the drivers side. We have room to sleep lengthwise or crosswise. The bed is easy to assemble. We can store bikes and a lot of other camping stuff in the aisle when we are on the road and the bed is not made up.

* It has 2 100AH Series 31 AGM coach batteries, 220 W of solar, and a 1000W pure sine inverter. We'll see if the inverter can handle most of our loads - I think it can. If not it is a separate component that can be replaced if needed.

* It has the Truma combi DHW and space heater.

* It uses the Thule awning - we can get a screen room for this awning that will be very nice to have in mosquito country.

* It has a large roof vent up front that lets in a lot of light and air.

* It has an 11,000 btu rooftop A/C. While not on our list of requirements, this may come in handy when we are camping in the South.


Cons
* It uses the noisy Onan genset. I decided this is the lesser of two evils. I do not like any of the Lithium/UHG setups for the Promaster van. The second alternator is very low on the chassis and right upfront, kind of like an Aztec sacrifice waiting to get sheared off by a passing rock. We are going to try the genset out for awhile to see what happens. I an add more AGM's or a Lithium package at a later date.

* It does not have awning style windows so we'll see how it all works in the rain. The big vent up top will help here.

* The cabinets do not have positive locking hardware. I can add cabinet locks if we find we need to. (I think we will need to.)


That's about it. Thanks again for all your well considered comments.

Tom

[GeorgeRa]

Congratulation, I am sure you will enjoy your new RV.

I have 2 group size 31 115 Ah each by Fullriver. Perhaps you could persuade Thor to use them, additional 30 Ah margin. https://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/dc115-12/

[Paul Craven]

We decided on a Thor Sequence 20A, as seemed to be the best layout I could find anywhere. The model is of course based on the Aktiv 2.0 Loft. As always there are trade offs but for a family of 4 with 2 small children it appeared to be the best option for us. As I am new to this forum I assume you can find my prior post on it.

Great input on this thread good luck.

[NFRicaS]

Originally Posted by RAA357

We have a Onan 2800 on our RT210 Versatile.
I installed two lawn mower style mufflers (tubular type) in line. One 2ft from the generator and the other 2ft from the exhaust end and it is just ad quiet as a Honda generator.

Can you post pics and links, please?? I want to try to do something like this...TIA

[Paul Craven]

Oops just saw this post after posting to your other post. This was the model that I also was looking for but the dealer I spoke with wasn’t a Tellaro dealer so we bought the Sequence 20A and the pros and cons list is almost identical adding however to the pros list is what I mentioned earlier for kids and the biggest point I forgot to mention is the 3 point seat belts. No way my son would have allowed his kids in it without it!

[Paul Craven]

I posted them in an earlier feed but I am not sure yet on how to find my old posts again either so I will attach them here for you. If you want one you have to find a dealer who is authorized to sell Sequence. At the same time post on the Thor site that you are interested. The director of sales for Thor called me back the next day and was very helpful but I had already selected a dealer.

Good Luck

[NFRicaS]

Originally Posted by Paul Craven

I posted them in an earlier feed but I am not sure yet on how to find my old posts again either so I will attach them here for you. If you want one you have to find a dealer who is authorized to sell Sequence. At the same time post on the Thor site that you are interested. The director of sales for Thor called me back the next day and was very helpful but I had already selected a dealer.

Good Luck

Was looking for info on the Onan generator mufflers, but thanks!!

[MsNomer]

W9TR, I don’t see where you need the generator at all. Even the 180A alternator on the PM can easily charge those batteries and the solar can, too.

[Dogman]

I READ your post and some of the replies you received. Some clarifications and RV terminology. You seem to be in search of a camper that will give you a home away, with the abilities to enjoy and not worry so much about Monthly Bills. The RV bath is known as wet and dry. The dry is very much like what you have in your home bath. I'm not into sales, just an old man trying to help you. Coachmen this year has come out with what they call a Cross Trek with a dry bath and about 60 to 80 thousand. Its 24-foot long and will park in a normal parking space some call it a Class B+, meaning the van unit with larger sides and top. Here is a Coachmen link https://coachmenrv.com/class-c-motorhomes/cross-trek and here is a walk through

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gM6pq9ucuE

Enjoy hope you find what you're looking for and some folks call this year's new this Cross Trek a Class C.

[W9TR]

We are several weeks and about 2000 miles into our Thor Tellaro 20AT. We've camped in it for 9 nights so far. We have boon docked for 4 days - needed to run the engine for a few hours to charge the batteries as we were parked in the shade.

Drivability and road comfort are excellent.
Love the SkyBunk and the overall layout.
Build quality is very good with no issues so far.
Bed is very firm - which we like.
Bath is tight but totally useable - it was a good tradeoff with the big rear bed.

The only con on my original list that came true is the noisy genset. No issues with the windows (don't need them) and the cabinets stay closed, no problem.

We're very happy with our purchase and look forward to the many awesome trips to come.

[W9TR]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

W9TR, I don’t see where you need the generator at all. Even the 180A alternator on the PM can easily charge those batteries and the solar can, too.

Yep, it appears that the engine alternator charges the batteries at the same rate as the genset.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Yep, it appears that the engine alternator charges the batteries at the same rate as the genset.

That seems surprising. How did you determine that?

If Thor is using their own inverter/charger, it appears to be 35 charging amps whether it is a 1, 2 or 3000 watt inverter/charger. If so, I would not use a LOUD onan to charge, rather the Promaster, Transit or whatever van. It appears that the microwave is covered so that leaves THE reason for a Loud onan or a quiet generator is the classic application, a/c.

Most wonderful to have no issues with a new B, always good to hear. Thanks for posting.

Bud