Help me decide on a new class b

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

FYI-

The smog requirements in California are probably the most stringent in the nation.
Here's the emissions requirements below.....

I hope your vehicle is excluded .... otherwise, you're subject
By the time your vehicle is over 21 years old.... I'm guessing that you'll want a newer model?

Currently, smog inspections are required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs, electric, natural gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, motorcycles, trailers, or gasoline powered vehicles 1975 and older

If your vehicle fails to pass...you will not be able to get your vehicle registration.. effectively grounding you... without extensive repairs.... cost will be extremely expensive. Read what happens if your vehicle is identified as a "gross polluter"....

Of course if you don't live in California...you won't have to worry about these regulations.
One final thing many states are adopting new emissions requirements all the time... climate change is real and the newer vehicles are lower on the carbon footprint....


https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1...dmv/vr/smogfaq

What I think you are missing is that all states (including California) set their allowable level of emissions according to the model year of the vehicle being tested. So, a 2007 Sprinter (for example) is allowed to pollute more than a 2018 model. There is never a requirement for a vehicle to be cleaner than it was when it came from the factory, so Boxster will be fine for as long as he wishes to keep his vehicle on the road. This is why the pre-DEF NCV3s are so desirable..

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

What I think you are missing is that all states (including California) set their allowable level of emissions according to the model year of the vehicle being tested. So, a 2007 Sprinter (for example) is allowed to pollute more than a 2018 model. There is never a requirement for a vehicle to be cleaner than it was when it came from the factory, so Boxster will be fine for as long as he wishes to keep his vehicle on the road. This is why the pre-DEF NCV3s are so desirable..

YES.... that's correct..... I know that the standards are for the year of manufacture, but, if they cannot pass then they will be unable to be registered.....

Of course you don't need it to be like a 2018....

You can only keep a vehicle on the road as long as it can pass emissions..... older vehicles have difficulties with this....if you have ever kept one of your vehicles long enough you will find out. Every vehicle is different, I had a 12 year old domestic car that couldn't pass emissions and it required a lot work for it to pass.... it wasn't cheap.

Sure, you can always throw money at this........ I can only imagine how expensive it would be to bring a gross polluter diesel engine back into passing territory....

As for pre-DEF vehicles.... with an engine that has more NVH ( noise vibrations and harshness).... I'd rather have the smoother cleaner running engine.... sorry...my two cents.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

What I think you are missing is that all states (including California) set their allowable level of emissions according to the model year of the vehicle being tested. So, a 2007 Sprinter (for example) is allowed to pollute more than a 2018 model. There is never a requirement for a vehicle to be cleaner than it was when it came from the factory, so Boxster will be fine for as long as he wishes to keep his vehicle on the road. This is why the pre-DEF NCV3s are so desirable..

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1123716

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

YES.... that's correct..... I know that the standards are for the year of manufacture, but, if they cannot pass then they will be unable to be registered.....

Of course you don't need it to be like a 2018....

You can only keep a vehicle on the road as long as it can pass emissions..... older vehicles have difficulties with this....if you have ever kept one of your vehicles long enough you will find out. Every vehicle is different, I had a 12 year old domestic car that couldn't pass emissions and it required a lot work for it to pass.... it wasn't cheap.

Sure, you can always throw money at this........ I can only imagine how expensive it would be to bring a gross polluter diesel engine back into passing territory....

As for pre-DEF vehicles.... with an engine that has more NVH ( noise vibrations and harshness).... I'd rather have the smoother cleaner running engine.... sorry...my two cents.

Well, then I have no idea what your point is. Pre-DEF NCV3s are mechanically nearly identical to post-DEF models. They are not noisier or harsher. T1Ns are, but that is exactly the point that makes pre-DEF NCV3s so desirable. If you are suggesting that a well-maintained vehicle from that era is or will soon be prohibitively-expensive to keep emissions compliant, well I just don't believe you. Compared to the nightmare of DEF-equipped Sprinters, those engines are a dream.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, then I have no idea what your point is. Pre-DEF NCV3s are mechanically nearly identical to post-DEF models. They are not noisier or harsher. T1Ns are, but that is exactly the point that makes pre-DEF NCV3s so desirable. If you are suggesting that a well-maintained vehicle from that era is or will soon be prohibitively-expensive to keep emissions compliant, well I just don't believe you. Compared to the nightmare of DEF-equipped Sprinters, those engines are a dream.

OK... I see...the pre-Mercedes Dodge Sprinter has better quality control than Mercedes?? I'm NOT a fan of the Dodge vehicles... And, maybe you are correct about them being quieter... YES... I was thinking about the earlier TN1.

On the emissions.... here's the point I'm trying to convey...the older a vehicle gets with advanced age years and mileage...the more difficult it will be to pass emissions.
I generally don't like older vehicles; they are less safe.

If you or someone else you know has a pre-DEF version and are happy with that.. great!

When the day comes when it will NOT pass emissions... and this could happen to a DEF Sprinter as well... you'd better be prepared to have it brought into compliance with the emissions or it will NOT be allowed to be re-registered in the state of California....

That's all I can tell you...

Aside from that...no one can guarantee that a pre-DEF will be any better than a DEF Sprinter.... It's all about maintenance and keeping your vehicle in good condition.

Finally, DEF Sprinters are doing their part to clean up the air quality... Don't know how you could be against that??

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Aside from that...no one can guarantee that a pre-DEF will be any better than a DEF Sprinter.... It's all about maintenance and keeping your vehicle in good condition.

Finally, DEF Sprinters are doing their part to clean up the air quality... Don't know how you could be against that??

I am certainly NOT against that. I strongly oppose the folks who think it is OK to install emissions defeat devices. And, yes, I agree that newer vehicles are cleaner and better for the environment. You will recall that I own a DEF Sprinter and am glad for its cleanliness. But, running a unmodified pre-DEF Sprinter is within the law, so I would never criticize anyone for doing so as long as they like. The assumption that people will do so is baked into the regulations and so is fair game.

What I AM against is crappy engineering, and it is simply irrefutable that the Sprinter DEF system is a monumentally crappy piece of engineering. And, yes, I can most certainly guarantee that as a statistical matter, pre-DEF Sprinters will indeed be better (i.e., cost less to maintain) than DEF Sprinters.

I realize that you very much want to believe that your vehicle's DEF problems are behind you. I hope so too--on your vehicle as well as mine. But wishes don't catch fishes.

[Boxster1971]

Dodge Sprinters were made in the same factory in Düsseldorf, Germany with the Mercedes and Freightliner Sprinters.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

That's the Crossfit 22C layout on the Ford Transit. Plenty of room behind the driver's seat (which we fill up with the catbox) and compressor fridge, but no lithium at the moment - possibly in the fall. NO idea why the pic is sideways...

They are already offering a lithium battery option in their Galleria model so it doesn't seem like it would be hard to add this option to the Crossfit at some point.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

They are already offering a lithium battery option in their Galleria model so it doesn't seem like it would be hard to add this option to the Crossfit at some point.

The problem with fitting in the Crossfit is the size of that big Lithionics battery. It's pretty big and barely fits in the Sprinter. They would most likely have to go with a smaller battery, or a scheme with 2 batteries, but that is also problematic as it gobbles up alot of storage space inside the van.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

The problem with fitting in the Crossfit is the size of that big Lithionics battery. It's pretty big and barely fits in the Sprinter. They would most likely have to go with a smaller battery, or a scheme with 2 batteries, but that is also problematic as it gobbles up alot of storage space inside the van.

I imagine that Lithionics can dimension the battery container to make best use of any particular storage area and as you suggest, dropping the battery capacity to 400ah would both reduce the dimensions and the option cost.

And, if they eliminate the Onan generator and implement a GU, perhaps the battery can be located in the Onan's place. However, I don't know if a GU can be implemented on the Transit. But even if above chassis, the Galleria lithium battery, for example, is located under the power sofa and while it does consume cubic, IMO that space is of secondary value because even though it technically is interior storage, to access this area you have to exit the coach and get to it by opening the rear doors which can be a PITA. One version of the Crossfit has a power sofa similar to the Galleria.

[Jujupang]

You can find Winnebago Travatos or Hymer Aktivs used for about 60k, check out Best time RV in Las Vegas, they rent them. Good idea to rent one for a a weekend.

[bftownes]

We downsized from a 40' DP to a new Phoenix Cruiser. These are first class, well-made motorhomes. There are several nice used models on RVTrader and also at Phoenix USA in Elkhart, IN. Phoenix USA has been a pleasure to work with.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Camoman

A couple years ago they implemented retroactive emissions on ALL commercial trucks

Can you document this? I do not believe that there has EVER been a retroactive emissions standard imposed on on-road vehicles anywhere in the US. In 2009, there was some talk in California of a retroactive emissions on diesel off-road construction equipment, but I can find no evidence that anything ever came of it.

[Camoman]

No problem my man. Here's the docs from the state [moderator edit] Skip to Main Content.

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[avanti]

Thanks. You appear to be correct. I am both surprised and pleased. Big rig emissions are a nightmare.

Some notes:
--This applies to diesel vehicles with a GVWR of more than 14,000lbs.
--The target for completion of the program is January 1, 2023.
--The requirement at that time will be compliance to the standards of MY2010.

Seems pretty modest and sensible, IMO.

For anyone who wants to see the original website, here is the link:
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/onrdiesel.htm

[Boxster1971]

Not surprised that California is continuing to tighten emissions requirements. It's part of a global trend. Diesels in cars are pretty much dinasors now after VWs diesel scandal. They will stay in heavy trucks for now as there isn't any reasonable replacement yet. Here is a story about what's happening in Europe.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...el-Europe-cars

[Boxster1971]

I just read some of the additional pages on the California diesel emissions rules. Turns out motothomes and RVs are exempt.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/trucks...htm#hideexempt

[jgolden]

Simply stated...there is no better Class B manufacturer in the market place than Advanced RV. If you are coming down from a large DP, you need to take the time to look at what Advanced RV builds before you make your decision. Good luck in your searches and finally, good travels....

[Janet H]

Moderator hat on: Several posts have been removed from this thread as they run afoul of the site rules about political comment and political topics. Please keep your posts on the subject of the board. The grenades lobbed into topics that are politically loaded are not appropriate at this board.

Members here have widely varying political views. There are many good places on the internet to have those discussions however this site is dedicated to RV and camping topics. Please report problem posts when you see them and the site team will have a look.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I just read some of the additional pages on the California diesel emissions rules. Turns out motothomes and RVs are exempt.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/trucks...htm#hideexempt

Brings this into perspective.....lots of hysteria here about California.

Those of us who live here are very grateful for the emissions standards...it has been a huge improvement in air quality......

Please remember that California has over 55 million people and is the most populated state. It is the 5th largest economy in the world.

Just plain facts....