GWV/Sterling RV shuttered...

[wjcreation]

Originally Posted by Bruceper

Sue them before the bankruptcy filing, that may place you higher up in line when it comes down to it.

They've filed....I don't which type of Chapter they filed for, but they've filed.

[wincrasher]

I figured they would. That will put all their disputes into the federal bankruptcy court and out of any local jurisdictions.

[wjcreation]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I figured they would. That will put all their disputes into the federal bankruptcy court and out of any local jurisdictions.

Just found out moments ago that Sterling RV has NOT filed for Bankruptcy - the attorney listed in the court documents confirmed this to us. Very interesting!!

[kohnd]

Has company offered to buy them out yet?

[Rok]

Wow, this is all news to me. I own a 2013 Great West Legend SE, so I'm very familiar with the product. I'm just posting on this thread in case anyone has any new information.

I plan to do some research to see if I can find out what is going on from some reputable sources. Let me clarify that: I'm not implying that the information here isn't reputable--quite the opposite, it seems damn good, but it also seems a bit incomplete.

If anyone knows anything more, please let me know.

Thanks.

......Rocky

[wincrasher]

The wheels of justice grind slowly. If they haven't filed bankruptcy, then there probably are separate litigations going on, if they've been filed. Sometimes parties will wait until approaching the statute of limitations if they think the ability to recover would be better. So it may take some time to play out.

[avanti]

I have been doing Google searches from time to time. There seems to be nary a peep on the Net, which kind of surprises me. One would think that at least hints of lawsuits, etc. would have shown up by now.

[Rok]

I have found out a few things about the situation, but a lot of people are keeping mum. Has anyone been able to talk with Dave DeBraga since this all started (6 months ago or so)? I would like to get his side of it.

I've seen his wife's Facebook post that was taken down. I think it appears somewhere earlier in this thread.

The current GW web site that is up appears to be an old one. All of the phone numbers on that site are defunct and give a "this number is no longer in service" message when called.

I have had Dave's personal cell phone number in the past, but I doubt that number is still working, and I don't know if I can find it in my records.

We have a few bills that were unpaid by the company plus some warranty work that was in process but incomplete, so we may have a small claim in the bankruptcy proceedings if we can find where to file. That is likely to be useless, but hey, I have a few hours to spend filling out some forms. Besides, it is more of a matter of curiosity to me.

If anyone knows about any bankruptcy proceedings and who to get in contact with about this, please let me know.

It sounds like this was a very messy thing and it may still take time to resolve.

I am sure glad this forum exists. Thanks Marko!

.........Rok

[markopolo]

There's a brief mention of it again in the Jan 6 edition of the Winfield Journal Record. Link: http://etypeservices.com/Journal%20R...7/default.aspx

[wincrasher]

Sounds like a foreclosure to me.

[avanti]

Best I can piece together, the city guarantee on the loan was about to expire and the bank didn't like how things were looking, so they pulled the plug before that happened, thus keeping the taxpayers on the hook. How real those concerns were is unknown, but they must have had enough to justify the foreclosure.

[wincrasher]

Reading the article, you'd think the company decided to fold up on it's own and left the bank holding the bag, including ducking out on a personal loan.

Might be some spin going on here. You'd think the "journalists" would be just spouting the bank's take on events.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Reading the article, you'd think the company decided to fold up on it's own and left the bank holding the bag, including ducking out on a personal loan.

Might be some spin going on here. You'd think the "journalists" would be just spouting the bank's take on events.

I was down there getting some minor warranty service only a few months before things fell apart. Spent a lot of time with Dave. From what I could see, I think it EXTREMELY unlikely that any of this was his idea. Whether he was meeting his obligations to the bank is a different question, about which I have no data.

[Davydd]

Anyone do the numbers? How much can a converter make on a Class B to pay off a loan? How many would they have to make? They listed eight dealers and that might have been optimistic. Their most successful dealer was probably Lake Region RVs in Minnesota and very few went through them based on my observation.

From the article it sounded like the bank made a visit and did some rudimentary numbers and realized something was amiss.

[avanti]

I don't disagree. But remember that B-van conversion wasn't their only business. They also made those little trailers (which was a much lower cost, higher volume and probably higher margin item) and also ran a fiberglass fabrication business. I know nothing about the health or profitability of those business activities, but it does complicate the analysis.

As others have suggested, I suspect that the fatal problem had more to do with workforce issues than with demand.

[wincrasher]

From what was printed, they had 20 employees over a year into the effort. At the opening, they said they'd have 80-90. Sounds like they never had enough people to have any significant output.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

From what was printed, they had 20 employees over a year into the effort. At the opening, they said they'd have 80-90. Sounds like they never had enough people to have any significant output.

...and to make matters worse, there appears to have been an extraordinary amount of turnover of the people they were able to hire. I don't want to speak out of school too much, but suffice it to say that recruiting in Alabama was a challenge for them.

[mumkin]

...a HUGE challenge...

[Rok]

Thanks for the info Marko & Wincrasher! That really helps flesh things out.

$1.5 million in a town of under 5,000 is more than $300 for every man, woman, and child. From what I've read, the area is a bit depressed. $300 is a lot of money for people used to living from paycheck to paycheck, on Social Security, etc.

It is not a wonder that the townfolk got a bit riled up. Unfortunately, it is also no wonder that some threats were hurled toward the DeBraga family as mentioned in Dave's wife's Facebook post. I don't think threats are proper, but it is almost to be expected, given the circumstances.

This whole thing would be a bit humorous if it weren't so serious.

.......Rocky

[Rok]

This is a very good point Davydd!

I've been trying to do the numbers in my head but I don't have a lot of solid data to work with. When I bought our GW Legend SE in 2013, I asked Dave what his production was and he didn't tell me directly. He said his capacity for production was about 50 to 60 units per year. When he told me that I got the impression that he might have been fudging a bit to make me feel comfortable with dealing with his company. I also got the definite impression that he was operating considerably under capacity. Since buying I've watched the units in stock at the limited dealership network he had. If I had to guess, with admittedly limited data, I would say he was producing between 20 & 30 units a year, if that.

I didn't get the chance to visit his operation in Winnipeg, or any of his other operations for that matter, but from what I've been told by others is that in his Canadian plant he had space set up for working on about 3 units simultaneously.

Does any of this jibe with your observations or knowledge?

Anyway, it would be difficult to pay off a $3.8 million debt IMHO with those types of sales levels. But then you have to factor the fiberglass biz into the equation. Do you know if he moved that business down to Winfield, too?

........Rocky

Originally Posted by Davydd

Anyone do the numbers? How much can a converter make on a Class B to pay off a loan? How many would they have to make? They listed eight dealers and that might have been optimistic. Their most successful dealer was probably Lake Region RVs in Minnesota and very few went through them based on my observation.

From the article it sounded like the bank made a visit and did some rudimentary numbers and realized something was amiss.