GWV/Sterling RV shuttered... - Page 2

booster · 06-29-2015, 12:20 AM

Or they could be hoping for a bargain hunting "white knight". With a newer facility, a good reputation, and mostly designed product line, they should be relatively attractive unless they have prohibitive debt.

This is the kind of facility that the owners of Roadtrek might buy, although they are pretty small, to turn around and resell.

wincrasher · 06-29-2015, 12:44 AM

Usually you see these things bought out of bankruptcy proceedings. That way you don't get the debt. You also get out of any labor agreements, contracts, etc. Or you just buy any patents and ditch the rest.

Interesting if creditor's "seized" the facility. That is more like a foreclosure after a default. Normally a business will file bankruptcy to prevent that from occurring. So I suspect there is more going on here than appears.

booster · 06-29-2015, 01:10 AM

Or perhaps is the building owner or loan holder that locked the doors and tied up the assets. Lots of possibilities, so it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Davydd · 06-29-2015, 01:49 AM

Sterling basically rescued Great West Vans as a brand buying it from the founder/owner who I believe was mid 70s at the time with health issues. Facilities seem to be pretty easy to replicate. They moved production once to Winnipeg after buying. They, I understand kept key people with experience. However, the first immediate casualty was the demise of the technically Class C Ford Titan which I thought was a really good design very similar to the Pleasure-way Excel but much better being built on a cutaway. I assume their Ford and Chevy brands weren't selling much to rescue.

It was said key people moved to Alabama as well but we really don't know to what level and how deep. They took over that existing small trailer line I knew nothing about beforehand. And they started developing the Promaster. I have no idea what their original fiberglass production is doing. It was a bigger operation when I visited the Winnipeg facility. They list 8 dealerships but I doubt all were real serious dealerships. Just three had any long history with Great West Vans that I could recognize. Lake Region RVs was probably the most serious one and I know they always had trouble it seems getting one in to show or sell off the floor. So most had to buy on faith by ordering. Even so, most everyone I know has been happy with their Great West Van Legends.

The cabinetry and finishes haven't changed in years. They are good quality but dated. They have changed out some idiosyncrasies of the original owner like the bathroom doors and slide out sink. The electrical/heating/hot water improvements came under the original ownership from the now owner of Advanced RV before there was an Advanced RV. I was envious that he got that done. It came almost immediately right after I got mine. Advanced RV's Mike Neundorfer at the time felt as I did that it was the best B on the market.

The new Great West Van ownership was smart enough to recognize some customization for buyers was a niche way to sell. I suspect it put a little pressure on dealerships because that took some back door negotiations most dealers were incapable of doing with little final say in decisions. I know when I bought mine I had other improvement desires but felt under the gun to take it or leave it as I had to negotiate with the dealer before they made the changes I felt I could get in. To me it was the compromise best on the market that could meet most of my desires. I imagine Neundorfer felt similar frustration despite getting much more which spurred him to do his own. He had the clout, production expertise and staff, business acumen, and existing facilities to do so.

Too much change? No traction? Too many distractions in overextending? Just bad luck and market timing? Maybe lots of other financial things we know nothing about and probably never will? If they don't survive what is really left? Since I bought my Great West Van Legend; Pleasure-way, Winnebago, Airstream and Roadtrek have made many more improvements from their comparable 2011 base. LTV had as well but seem to be out of the B business right now. Advanced RV has considerably more expertise in the small volume market than Sterling from what I can tell and a great deal more flexibility, providing things no others offer, and creativity working with customers.

That's my take on the situation for what it's worth having had a Great West Van, some little knowledge, and a following interest. It is a grain of salt opinion on my part. I have no inside knowledge other than what I said here. I suspect if they survive it will be to preserve jobs as the catalyst to help financially if that is the issue. The brand has become inconsequential I think. We saw the news video and it was pretty straight forward. The other side of the story may very well be more positive. Current Great West Van owners should hope so. Stay tuned.

avanti · 06-29-2015, 02:31 AM

My wife and I visited the Winfield factory a few months ago to get some minor warranty work done. I'm a little sensitive about speaking out of school, but here are some things that I picked up:
--The core of the Canadian staff did indeed relocate to Winfield. Some of them have worked for Great West for many years.
--I got the impression that recruiting in Alabama was much more of a challenge than they anticipated. Having said that, I did not get the impression that they regretted the move.
--The factory was pretty nice. Spacious and they did significant remodeling. There was quite a bit of activity when we were there.
--My understanding is that the building was originally owned by the local government and provided to them on favorable terms as part of the incentive package that attracted them to Alabama (it was not the only location that they looked at). I THINK that they had (or were in the process of) taking ownership of the facility, but don't quote me on that.

Although we already happily own our Legend, I am really rooting for them. I do not agree that they have become inconsequential. It is true that the competition has caught up on a lot of the design advances that Great West pioneered. But there is, IMO, absolutely no other B-van upfitter on the market the combines (a) a great design; (b) leading-edge technology; (c) excellent build quality; and (d) good value for the money. You can find three of the four elsewhere, but not all four.

(Edit: I guess i should have added the willingness to customize to that list, as Davydd mentioned.)

mumkin · 06-29-2015, 08:30 PM

I bought my GWV in 2004, just when they had done the switch to Ford after the demise of the Dodge van. Although my dealer, Dale Borstad before he opened his own business, had one in stock, he suggested that I go up and tour the factory as it was closer to me. So, I worked closely with Marty and some of the staff that did made the move to AL. They had actually just finished their first Sprinter - which didn't appeal to me because of its lack of interior and exterior storage in comparison. I could be wrong, but I thought the owner was about my age then... 50ish... but he did need to get out when he did because of his sadly serious health issues. Sterling has been the company that did the fiberglass for them... like the Titan... which sadly didn't sell well. I had actually spoken to Marty about whether they would be offering different floor plans like they did on their Class Bs and that was their plan.

Hopefully Sterling will manage to pull out of this. I like the idea of being able to make more changes in floorplan and options.

skiMore · 07-01-2015, 04:49 PM

On Monday there was a very odd post on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...35579206695811

*Posted by Carrie-Anne DeBraga with Karen DeBraga
I don’t usually post all of the happenings of my personal life on social media but I feel the need to draw attention to what has been happening to us lately. As many of you know my husband, Dave and I made the decision to move our business from Canada to northwest Alabama early last year. It wasn’t a decision that was taken lightly as we are very close to our family and friends, but sometimes life gives you opportunities and we have always said throughout our marriage that ‘everything happens for a reason’. I was very hesitant on leaving the only home I had ever known, especially due to fact that my mom had been battling cancer for the past 3 years and I really felt the need to stay close to her. But in the end we decided to take the leap, we thought that life in a small town would be good for us as a family to spend more time with each other and our children as well as growing our family business that we have worked hard at for over 16 years. The move was made a bit easier when Dave’s brother Dan and his wife Karen decided to make the move with us. Dan, Karen and their kids headed down first and Dave spent the majority of 2014 setting up the business in Alabama while the kids and I remained in Canada as I closed out the large portion of the business here and the kids finished the first term of school in preparation to make the permanent move to our ‘Sweet Home Alabama’ as we called it. (The kids and I spent a lot of time listening to this song in the car!). It was difficult to be away from each other for such long periods of time, I think moreso for Dave because he missed the kids (and me I hope!) a lot. But we pressed on because we knew it was temporary and we would all be settled into our new Alabama life by the new year. Christmastime was bittersweet as we said goodbye to family and friends and packed the last of our belongings and hit the road to our new home in the south. After a while the kids became settled into their new schools and after school activities and we all settled into our new ‘norm’. We met some great families who took us in as their own and who our kids referred to as their ‘southern families’, you know who you are and it is those friendships that I will be forever grateful as you all made a difficult move much easier. Don’t get me wrong, it hasn’t been all sunshine and rainbows, and lately what we have been dealing with has been one of the most disturbing situations that I have ever personally encountered. Karen and I brought our kids back to Canada to visit family on their summer vacation and we are now being ‘advised’ not to return to our homes, OUR OWN HOMES. Our friends are being threatened, our husbands are being accused of the most ridiculous things we have ever heard. Why? Because of what went down there last Monday & Tuesday. I’m sure you can see it splashed all over the local newspaper and a local tv station. There have been a lot of things that have happened over the last year, nothing of which I’m going to divulge right now. A lot of it we never really paid much mind to or we would have never brought our kids into it. All I know now is that we cannot even bring our children home. We now feel the need to seek federal help, when you fear for the safety of your family this feels like the only option. I would like to personally apologize to the people of Winfield, Alabama. It was never our intent to bring such a negative situation into your community.

Shacktee15 · 07-09-2015, 10:11 PM

I'm still on hold waiting for a proposal from Lake Region RVs on coming up with twin beds. Pictures of both, the Froli/Travato setup and Davydd's ARV power beds were offered as acceptable alternatives.

mumkin · 07-10-2015, 03:06 PM

An interesting read is both the Great West Van and Sterling RV facebook pages - both the posts and the comments. It sounds like my prediction when I first heard about their move, that they would be unable to find enough skilled workers was the issue... and the mayor of Winfield sounds to be... ummm... not totally honest... to put it mildly.

wincrasher · 07-10-2015, 04:24 PM

It's a real mess, and for those thinking it will be quickly resolved, they will be disappointed. If you were looking to buy a GWV, I'd recommend you just look elsewhere - their production is likely done for 2015 while they sort it out.

avanti · 07-15-2015, 02:21 PM

So the Facebook link I posted above no longer works and I am unable to find any references to this issue there or elsewhere. I am guessing that somebody lawyered-up.

I've been off-line for the past week. Did I miss anything before it all disappeared?

Davydd · 07-15-2015, 02:33 PM

I saw one vitriolic message on Facebook from I assume a Sterling employee in response to a Sterling message. It was a no sympathy response with a threat of action if he did not get his paycheck coming due. So I suspect Sterling got smart and closed it down before more torches and pitchforks came out.

The Great West Vans website is still up as I type this.

mumkin · 07-15-2015, 05:09 PM

Both of their facebook pages are gone. Good idea to not use social media in situations like this. There was only the one employee complaint post that I saw and there had been plenty of time for many more that. One of the posts was a nasty from someone that wasn't hired who whinged about the fact there they weren't providing training. Which certainly demonstrated their quandary. First you need to have a functioning factory floor and eventually one would hope to be able to take on trainees.

wincrasher · 07-15-2015, 05:55 PM

Well, they had it out there long enough to play the victim card.

I think that they were somewhat surprised that people would be angry about not getting their pay, or pending orders not being fullfilled (and deposits kept) and so on.

I'm amazed they haven't filed Chapter 11 or 7 yet. Usually to do that to pre-empt the lawsuits. Maybe they have hopes of working something out.

obgraham · 07-15-2015, 06:08 PM

Safe to assume they are toast. Who will buy one now?

booster · 07-15-2015, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obgraham

Safe to assume they are toast. Who will buy one now?

Or ripe for acquisition.

Shacktee15 · 07-15-2015, 09:54 PM

GWV, at this point, leave dealers and warranty customers out on a limb. As well as anyone wih pending deals in the works. The owners/employees and other stakeholders will likely feel the brunt of the impact.

obgraham · 07-15-2015, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

Or ripe for acquisition.

Perhaps. But I still wouldn't buy there -- there's other builders. A reputation is difficult to regain.

mumkin · 07-16-2015, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I think that they were somewhat surprised that people would be angry about not getting their pay, or pending orders not being fullfilled (and deposits kept) and so on.

Why would they be surprised? Of course they knew that they would be, all I saw of surprise was that the city government seemed to have little interest in making any attempt to help... to the point of lying. Because there was only one post about paychecks... and it was an older post, I suspect that they were paid.

I dodged a bullet because I was discussing a short Promaster unit with Dave. The long wait on getting pricing... along with the newness of the platform... pushed me to a known product.

avanti · 07-16-2015, 05:22 PM

We were lucky, too. Just a few months ago we were at the factory to have a bunch of minor adjustments done (primarily tweaking the rather complex trifold seat/bed). They lavished attention on our vehicle for the better part of a day and got everything into tip-top shape, and didn't charge for anything--including some "special requests". Glad we didn't wait any longer.

Mumkin: What is the reference to the government "lying"? Missed that part.

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