Great West: The Rest of the Story (long)

[wincrasher]

For the nearest thing similar, you should oook at Coachmen Galleria. Shares many of the attributes and looks of i.e. A quality build.

[Roxy4x4]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Thanks for the rest of the story. Now we all have some insight on why GW folded. Proving once again that if it sounds too good to be true - it probably is.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

Isn’t that the truth!

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

For the nearest thing similar, you should oook at Coachmen Galleria. Shares many of the attributes and looks of i.e. A quality build.

A quality build? The Galleria delivers with flooded cell coach batteries that are not practically serviceable, it has no inverter and is standard equipped with an induction stove that requires either shore power or an Onan generator support to function. The nice cabinetry is supposed to make up for this?

[cshetl]

Avanti, ROK, and anyone else... I am looking at a 14 SE. I drove it today. It seemed like over bumps there was a bit of racket going on in back, more than I expected, but I am not experienced in driving RV's, this would be my first, maybe they are all like that. I like it for the reasons listed -- large restroom for a B, storage, screen door, etc... it's got 8K miles and ask is $92K. The interior has the "modern" scheme I believe, with gloss (and somehow the gloss is bubbled in areas but not terrible). Anything I should be worried about in particular? Appreciate any thoughts.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by cshetl

Avanti, ROK, and anyone else... I am looking at a 14 SE. I drove it today. It seemed like over bumps there was a bit of racket going on in back, more than I expected, but I am not experienced in driving RV's, this would be my first, maybe they are all like that. I like it for the reasons listed -- large restroom for a B, storage, screen door, etc... it's got 8K miles and ask is $92K. The interior has the "modern" scheme I believe, with gloss (and somehow the gloss is bubbled in areas but not terrible). Anything I should be worried about in particular? Appreciate any thoughts.

A "launching" of rear passengers on rolling bumps is a characteristic problem with Sprinters. "They all do it". This is not a GWV-specific problem. The only real fix is apparently the very expensive air suspension systems that are available. Installing them is a major project.

That "modern" finish was new in 2013 or 2014, and I doubt they made more than a few of them, so I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't gotten all the kinks out of using the material. I've never seen one, so I can't really comment.

The only other real issue that I am aware of concerned the installation of the Espar's fuel lines. At least in our van, they used generic flexible clear fuel hose with a larger diameter than the hard thin translucent plastic lines that Espar specifies. This led to finicky operation of the heater. These units are very sensitive to fuel-line setup and they should be done exactly to Espar specs. If your unit was done this way, I would budget a couple hundred dollars to get it fixed. Might be a good price-negogiation point. Many Thermo-King sites are good at Espar stuff.

Other than that, there is just the obvious risk of inconsistent work from an inexperienced workforce.

That said, if I were in the market for a B-van now, knowing all that I know, I would seek out a new or nearly-new Legend. IMO, short of a DIY build the only comparable option is twice the price.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

A quality build? The Galleria delivers with flooded cell coach batteries that are not practically serviceable, it has no inverter and is standard equipped with an induction stove that requires either shore power or an Onan generator support to function. The nice cabinetry is supposed to make up for this?

You pick two items that are easily corrected. Remember, these sell for $99k fully loaded, and you can probably do a little better. You can't spend a couple hundred on better batteries? Can't see $200 for the gas cooktop? Or have your dealer install an inverter?

The bones are there - large usuable bathroom, decent tank sizes, high quality all wood cabinetry, nice leathers, good floorplans (proven popular by Roadtrek), Truma heating system, large LP tank, generator, etc. If you don't want to spend an extra $50-70k for a tricked out Roadtrek Adventurous, it's a reasonable alternative for layout and basic equipment.

Just about every model out there on the Sprinter is significantly more money than the Galleria, some with more optional features at a price.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

The bones are there - large usuable bathroom, decent tank sizes, high quality all wood cabinetry, nice leathers, good floorplans (proven popular by Roadtrek), Truma heating system, large LP tank, generator, etc. If you don't want to spend an extra $50-70k for a tricked out Roadtrek Adventurous, it's a reasonable alternative for layout and basic equipment.

Just about every model out there on the Sprinter is significantly more money than the Galleria, some with more optional features at a price.

The Galleria has a driver's side galley. Maybe just me, but I would NEVER consider a unit with this floorpan. This has been discussed to death, and everyone has their own opinion. No point in re-litigating the merits, I am just pointing it out.

[wincrasher]

Then you would disregard about 3/4 of the van's out there. Just because you wouldn't consider this van for your personal use doesn't diminish the fact that it's a good value and reasonable option for many people, if not a majority of people.

fWIW, I like a drivers side galley. It gives you the option of having the full width of the doorway open.

[cshetl]

Thank you Avanti —*that feedback helps a lot.

[Rok]

Originally Posted by cshetl

Avanti, ROK, and anyone else... I am looking at a 14 SE. I drove it today. It seemed like over bumps there was a bit of racket going on in back, more than I expected, but I am not experienced in driving RV's, this would be my first, maybe they are all like that. I like it for the reasons listed -- large restroom for a B, storage, screen door, etc... it's got 8K miles and ask is $92K. The interior has the "modern" scheme I believe, with gloss (and somehow the gloss is bubbled in areas but not terrible). Anything I should be worried about in particular? Appreciate any thoughts.

The racket in "back" could be a lot of things--depending on what you mean by back. As Avanti mentioned, there is a lot of movement on the back seat when traveling. Anything back there that isn't tied down well will bounce. Riding back there is like riding a carnival ride. With ours, the main racket comes from the Keurig Coffeemaker. The parts jump around quite a bit. We stuff towels around it to quiet it down.

8K miles is good, but remember it is still 3 years old or so, so that is a lot of sitting time. Just because a rig has low miles doesn't mean it hasn't gone through a lot. You can camp and not put on miles. Also things deteriorate even when it isn't moving.

Our Espar didn't work right and started to leak, too. Also, I don't think they got the skylight over the bathroom right on any of them, but I could be wrong.

By the time a 2014 would be built, they were deep into the throws of capitulation, so your fit and finish might not be very good. On our rig we had a list of about 35 items that needed repair after our maiden voyage, 10-12 of which were user error.

We paid $107K for ours new, so I think $92 is a bit high, but you will be getting something that probably won't be available again.

Our turn screw for the bed eventually bent and we played hell getting a replacement even when GW was open. I don't know where you would get one now.

If I can find it, I'll see if I can post our original list of the items that needed addressed.

Good luck with it.

Oh, and I think I would prefer the EX. I think Avanti had his rig modified for extra sleeping length.

........Rocky

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Rok

With ours, the main racket comes from the Keurig Coffeemaker. The parts jump around quite a bit. We stuff towels around it to quiet it down.

Oh, yeah, the Keurig. Ours rattled too at first. We did three things to fix it:
1) Put some rubber tape or something on the edge of the removable drain tray thing. Either that or some velcro. You have to stop it vibrating.
2) The wood screws on the drawer slides weren't fully tightened. Fixing this made a HUGE difference.
3) I installed one of these on the sliding shelf:


You can get them at Home Depot. It was mostly to prevent the shelf from sliding out on a sharp turn, but it also got the last of the vibration

These three things completely silenced the Keurig.

Oh, and I think I would prefer the EX. I think Avanti had his rig modified for extra sleeping length.

Yes, we definitely did NOT want an EX for the sake of easier urban parking. But
I am 6'3" so we had GWV build us a custom kitchen cabinet that gave me an extra 4". I think the standard non-EX bed would be ok for anyone under 6'

[Rok]

I found some of my original letters to GW that outlined all the issues we had on our first "voyage". It is VERY VERY long, at 12 or so typewritten pages, then there is a two page follow-up letter.

I will post it under another heading. It might be humorous to some given that many of the items listed were "user error" (i.e. "our fault"), but the vast majority of the items are the type of things to look out for when buying a new rig. Like the lawyer on another thread said, the manufacturers know that you don't have much recourse once you take delivery, and they use it to their advantage.

Anyway some might like seeing what we went through, others will be bored to tears. You are forewarned....

..............Rocky

[peteco]

This comment could be made in many of the RV buying disaster threads, but I put it here since this is an active thread.

Would it be unreasonable for a buyer of an RV to request that payment will not be made until the buyer has "lived" in the RV for 2 nights? This could be on the dealers lot if possible, or at the nearest campground. That should incentivize the dealer to make sure everything is right before delivery.

[Rok]

Peteco:

But that would keep them from taking advantage of the "game". It is worse than buying a new car because the transaction is larger, so they get the best of the best to sell them to you, or the worst of the worst, depending on your perspective.

You can get any agreement you want. Most dealerships will take care of things for a short while--maybe a month.

First time buyers often expect it to be like a car where you have statutory protections under the lemon laws. I know I kind of expected that. Also, once you cross a state boundary, a lot of those protections go away or are hard to enforce.

When you cross an international border, I found out, the laws are very blurred and you need a VERY expensive attorney to be able to get any recourse, so pragmatism forces you to let it go.

I found it very frustrating.

.........Rocky

[cshetl]

So I am purchasing the 2014 SE, it looks to be in good shape —*I am getting 2 months of warranty to fix anything that goes awry. It's at RCD Sales, they seem to have a good reputation. It's got 8K miles. I am paying 88. I am probably not getting a great deal... but I don't think it's unfair either. I will post pics.

[avanti]

Congrats!
Welcome to an increasingly exclusive club.

[Rok]

Originally Posted by cshetl

So I am purchasing the 2014 SE, it looks to be in good shape —*I am getting 2 months of warranty to fix anything that goes awry. It's at RCD Sales, they seem to have a good reputation. It's got 8K miles. I am paying 88. I am probably not getting a great deal... but I don't think it's unfair either. I will post pics.

Yes, congratulations. I think you will enjoy your purchase. $88K seems O.K. You are getting something special.

I posted our initial list of items on another thread. That and what has been posted here are a good place to look for problems.

.......Rocky

[cshetl]

Thanks Avanti and Rok

The shower area in this is the only one in a B that I could use. And that was important to me. Speaking of the bathroom, I actually do not think the previous owners ever used the toilet.

I'd be interested in seeing the bed extension solution you came up with.

I like the screen door too. And the storage. I liked the LTV twin bed, but honestly, that shower, and it was in a C, was more claustrophobic than this.

I copied that list as soon as I saw it too. They are going to do a run through and fix anything before I take it, and then I'll run it around for a good bit and see what else I can see that needs attention within the 2 month window.

[avanti]

My bed-lengthening was done by the factory to my spec. Here's how I added 4" to the passenger side of the bed (at the expense of those narrow drawers):

IMG_09.JPG

IMG_10.JPG

I have done many other mods that you might find interesting. I have an extensive thread over at Sprinter Source. Here are a few samples:

Converted rear closet to a pantry (We have a front closet):
Pantry.jpg

Filled that empty space up behind the driver's head with a niche:
niche3.jpg

Built a pull-out shelf under the rear hanging closet:
shelf 3.jpg


Finally, I modified the dump system for dual-dump (macerator & gravity) capability:

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...html#post27871

[cshetl]

Those are all nice and look great. Did they install the larger bed then, once the space was made available? If so I don't think I'll be able to do that of course.