Fridge not cooling properly

[Doneworking]

I know a lot of people (especially those of us that live in "hot country" like Texas and Oklahoma experience a lot of problems with their refrig keeping stuff cool. I cannot understand why I don't have that problem. It may have to do with the fact that my 2007 Roadtrek 210 was built by the original owners of the company and it may be insulated better or something? Now, my refrig is 5 cubic feet. I believe that Dave's 190 has a 3 cubic foot refrig so mine may be very different i how it operates. I live in Oklahoma City so we are unfortunately familiar with high temps and sometimes high humidity to go along with it.

When we are going to be on a trip, I fire up the refrig on electric if it is in the garage and on propane if it is outside and I do that about 24 hours before we will be loading the refrig.

Also, we make sure to load cold stuff to begin with so the unit will not be initially trying to cool warm Cokes, water, etc.

I am very glad I don't have this problem because it would be miserable. I am very sorry for the folks that can't get the temp below 40 degrees from ambient. I would love to hear from someone else in our part of the country that has the five cubic foot RT on a 210P Roadtrek that was made a few years before or after our 2007.

Paul

[Gary Mn]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

I know a lot of people (especially those of us that live in "hot country" like Texas and Oklahoma experience a lot of problems with their refrig keeping stuff cool. I cannot understand why I don't have that problem. It may have to do with the fact that my 2007 Roadtrek 210 was built by the original owners of the company and it may be insulated better or something? Now, my refrig is 5 cubic feet. I believe that Dave's 190 has a 3 cubic foot refrig so mine may be very different i how it operates. I live in Oklahoma City so we are unfortunately familiar with high temps and sometimes high humidity to go along with it.

When we are going to be on a trip, I fire up the refrig on electric if it is in the garage and on propane if it is outside and I do that about 24 hours before we will be loading the refrig.

Also, we make sure to load cold stuff to begin with so the unit will not be initially trying to cool warm Cokes, water, etc.

I am very glad I don't have this problem because it would be miserable. I am very sorry for the folks that can't get the temp below 40 degrees from ambient. I would love to hear from someone else in our part of the country that has the five cubic foot RT on a 210P Roadtrek that was made a few years before or after our 2007.

Paul

Paul
My OEM Dometic was three cubic feet and the Novakool is about four. The five foot may be better insulated and becaus cit is larger it has larger absorption unit and you may get better internal circulation. Our big problem was that every time we opened the door the temp would go up several degrees and it might take over a half day to recover. It also tracked the outside air temp as has been suggested. To help I had a cooling fan kit on the outside coils and another fan on the upper vent to pull out hot air. Both did not help the above mentioned problems
Gary

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by DWorrell3

I have a 2012 RT Popular and I have never seen my refrigerator cool 40 degrees below ambient. In other words, if it's 104 in Lubbock, TX, the fridge is not going below 64 degrees, however it's hooked up. I took it out and put in a NovaCool compressor fridge, which fit perfectly in the available space. It will hold 36 degrees, no matter what. I can run it on coach batteries alone for three days, and it will run on shore power and the generator. I'ts my understanding that the expansion fridges are being gradually phased out. Dave W

Smart move

IMO, the only redeeming virtue of absorption fridges is that they can be run on propane for extended periods with little battery drain. When coaches were equipped with a 80ah group 24 battery, a propane powered fridge was a necessity. There was no other way to fly. But current class B builds provide at least 200ah of support and this target is rapidly increasing to 400ah and higher to the point that propane support for any appliance is less and less required. Additionally, solar assist is offered by every B upfitter which in many circumstances largely offsets the power demand of compressor fridges. Consequently, the necessity for absorption style fridges is rapidly becoming obsolete.

As you observed, unlike absorption units, compressor fridges are relatively indifferent to both ambient temperature and also are almost totally indifferent to off level conditions. Fortunately, there is a sufficient variation in the dimensions of compressor fridges that you can choose one that is pretty much a drop-in replacement.

All these compressor fridges work OK, but IMO the creme de la creme units are built by Nova Kool. They even offer a model with dual compressors, (not just dual evaporators), that gives you pin point control over the temperatures of the freezer and fresh compartments. That ain't too shabby!

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

I am very glad I don't have this problem because it would be miserable. I am very sorry for the folks that can't get the temp below 40 degrees from ambient. I would love to hear from someone else in our part of the country that has the five cubic foot RT on a 210P Roadtrek that was made a few years before or after our 2007.

Paul

The problem with gaining insight from anecdotal reports on 3-way fridges is this: Compressor fridges by and large either work to spec or they don't work at all. An absorption fridge undoubtedly works to spec the first day it's turned on but over time, typically from off-level operation, flu blockage etc, it may sustain damage and lose cooling efficiency. It can suffer this on a cumulative basis from repeated events like this, but it doesn't just quit. It just slowly deteriorates until it runs and runs but doesn't cool.

Depending on the vintage of the fridge, there are some units designed to shut down before sustaining significant damage. In any event, particularly if you not the original owner but a second or subsequent owner, you have no practical way of determining the prior conditions under which the fridge has operated.

[GallenH]

So, being an owner of a 1997 PW with one 24 battery, I have several questions about power. The Novakool site lists the draw of the 4500 at 4.4amps running on 12v. They say to calculate daily use you'd 4.4x24 or 105 amps. Does this mean that you'd need a battery of 105ah per day? True of batteries other than lithium (iow: how far down can you run a non-lithium battery)? Also, if I were to increase the number of batteries that I had, would the alternator, which currently runs the engine and charges cabin, have to be upgraded? True of solar as well? I have 100w solar which redeems the 24 in a day by itself. Obviously I know very little about this. But I'm currently dealing with a Dometic 2310 that's on the fritz but is.....remarkably....original equipment. Need to replace it with something before Glacier next month. Thx.

[Phoebe3]

The rule of thumb for the Nova Kools is that they cycle about 34% of the time - so a 4.5AH refrigerator would consume about 36 AH each day. However, in practice, it depends on how hot your rig is, how often you open the door and how much thermal mass you have in it. If the ambient is mild (under 95*), we have found that our 100W solar and 200AH flooded batteries will run the refrigerator fine. However, we tend to travel at least every other day and since the engine charges the batteries, I don't have any experience with how long you could boondock before the batteries were depleted.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by GallenH

So, being an owner of a 1997 PW with one 24 battery, I have several questions about power. The Novakool site lists the draw of the 4500 at 4.4amps running on 12v. They say to calculate daily use you'd 4.4x24 or 105 amps. Does this mean that you'd need a battery of 105ah per day? True of batteries other than lithium (iow: how far down can you run a non-lithium battery)? Also, if I were to increase the number of batteries that I had, would the alternator, which currently runs the engine and charges cabin, have to be upgraded? True of solar as well? I have 100w solar which redeems the 24 in a day by itself. Obviously I know very little about this. But I'm currently dealing with a Dometic 2310 that's on the fritz but is.....remarkably....original equipment. Need to replace it with something before Glacier next month. Thx.

The running draw is 4.4 amps but remember that the unit is not continuously on. After bringing the contents down to the thermostat determined freezer and fresh compartment temps, the subsequent on-off the duty cycle will vary depending upon the coach interior temperature and how often the fridge is accessed.

Based on our experience with the compressor fridge in our 210PC I think a reasonable guestimate of the fridge duty cycle would be 50% which would bring the 24 hour load to the whereabouts of 50 amp hours. Assuming no other appliances are in use, solar battery support would reduce net 24 hour battery dissipation to about, (and I'm guesstimating again) to about 35ah per 24 hour period.

A fridge on propane would result in less battery drain but not as much less as is conventionally assumed. The control board in the 3-way fridge pulls about 1 amp and some units that have a coil driven propane solenoid consume additional suds.

[Gary Mn]

Originally Posted by GallenH

So, being an owner of a 1997 PW with one 24 battery, I have several questions about power. The Novakool site lists the draw of the 4500 at 4.4amps running on 12v. They say to calculate daily use you'd 4.4x24 or 105 amps. Does this mean that you'd need a battery of 105ah per day? True of batteries other than lithium (iow: how far down can you run a non-lithium battery)? Also, if I were to increase the number of batteries that I had, would the alternator, which currently runs the engine and charges cabin, have to be upgraded? True of solar as well? I have 100w solar which redeems the 24 in a day by itself. Obviously I know very little about this. But I'm currently dealing with a Dometic 2310 that's on the fritz but is.....remarkably....original equipment. Need to replace it with something before Glacier next month. Thx.

I think you need some more information to figure this out.
What is the amp output of the alternator?
Do you drive every day or boondock?
What is the amp hour rating of your 24 battery?

If the solar panel refreshes the 24battery every day then adding another battery should not be an issue for the alternator. If you can get your battery capacity or about 200 amphrs as the other post suggested you should be okay.

[GallenH]

I believe my 24 is 80ah. I don't recall seeing one on the market that's higher. Perspective: my Dometic is old. There is no control board sapping power. 12v or 120v get's simply directed to the respective heating element when on those sources. We don't boondock. But when we're at a place like Bryce, where you don't drive within the park, we do remain stationary. Camped on BLM land near the Colorado in AZ close to friends who had a large rig and jeep. We didn't drive the RV. Without solar the battery depleted after 2 days to the point that the alarms were going off at night due to lack of power. Had to start up van during the night to get by. Second trip to same location months later with the solar: no problem. But, am I correct in assuming that if I add a 2nd battery that the panel would not be capable of topping off both batteries in the same period of time?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by GallenH

I believe my 24 is 80ah. I don't recall seeing one on the market that's higher. Perspective: my Dometic is old. There is no control board sapping power. 12v or 120v get's simply directed to the respective heating element when on those sources. We don't boondock. But when we're at a place like Bryce, where you don't drive within the park, we do remain stationary. Camped on BLM land near the Colorado in AZ close to friends who had a large rig and jeep. We didn't drive the RV. Without solar the battery depleted after 2 days to the point that the alarms were going off at night due to lack of power. Had to start up van during the night to get by. Second trip to same location months later with the solar: no problem. But, am I correct in assuming that if I add a 2nd battery that the panel would not be capable of topping off both batteries in the same period of time?

You say your fridge is old but if it is the original equipment in a 1997 PW, it isn't all that old. I'm surprised that there is no control board. How do you execute ignition for the propane burner? What's the model number of your fridge?

Re adding a battery: it doesn't affect your solar recharging capability or charge pattern. Yes, doubling battery capacity could double the period required for solar recharge if the coach load doubles, but if the load level remains the same, both batteries only require 1/2 the amount of recharge that a single battery would. And a plus for doubling capacity is that it is more likely that you will keep the depth of discharge of both batteries to less than 50%.

BTW, if space permits, when you replace your coach battery or batteries, going to a group 27 or 31 would increase your ah capacity by 25%.

[Gary Mn]

Originally Posted by GallenH

I believe my 24 is 80ah. I don't recall seeing one on the market that's higher. Perspective: my Dometic is old. There is no control board sapping power. 12v or 120v get's simply directed to the respective heating element when on those sources. We don't boondock. But when we're at a place like Bryce, where you don't drive within the park, we do remain stationary. Camped on BLM land near the Colorado in AZ close to friends who had a large rig and jeep. We didn't drive the RV. Without solar the battery depleted after 2 days to the point that the alarms were going off at night due to lack of power. Had to start up van during the night to get by. Second trip to same location months later with the solar: no problem. But, am I correct in assuming that if I add a 2nd battery that the panel would not be capable of topping off both batteries in the same period of time?

As has been suggested if you have room for more batteries you could upgrade to two six volt deep cycle batteries in series and easily get to over 200 amphrs capacity. With your solar you would easily be able to sit for several days as you do with a Novakool fridge. My Fullriver 224 six volt AGM batteries would work well in your situation as would others I am certain.

[GallenH]

I thought 20 years was old! It's a Dometic 2310 3-way and the gas is ignited via a push button piezo on the front while you hold a momentary gas button down. It appears to me that once it's lit, it remains so until you turn it off. Sort of a moot point, I guess. If I were to replace it, the current model, I'm sure, has the control board that you're describing. I'll look into 6v batteries as well. There is a vented compartment for the battery....but it will only hold one. It barely measures 13" in length so a 27 might be possible but a squeeze. There is an adjacent compartment which holds the jack, etc. that's quite large but not vented. I also have a spot for the Onan (which the original buyer didn't opt for). Not sure if that can carry battery weight. From what I've read, I'd be buying 2 batteries anyways. Not good to pair an old with a new, correct?

[Doneworking]

Gallen I had a 96 Roadtrek at one time and it had about the same kind of refrigerator. One thing about it, they are simple and not much to go wrong.

Ours was mounted at floor level under the kitchen cabinet and you could barely see the gas lighting when it through a little window at the bottom of the fridge. Result: I would have to lay in the floor sometimes to light it and if it hadn't been used in a while it was hard to get lighted. I would push that button over and over and finally it would light. Once lit, I never had a problem with it on a trip.

Maybe it was just our ages and the sweet spot we were in our lives at that time, but I don't think we ever owned a rig that was more fun. It never saw an rv dealer again after I drove it off the lot.

Correct on using two batteries: they need to match. As I recall, the old Microlite 2800 genset used in most Bs back then weighed about 110 pounds, so a guy could probably use that area to rig up some angle iron and sheet metal and support a couple of batteries.

When your rig has not been used for a while, it takes a bit of time to get the LP gas up to the piezo lighter to ignite. You may be able to accelerate that a bit by lighting the stove first and getting the gas that far up the pipe.

I love the stuff on older Bs because it is simpler and more fool proof IMO. I have no desire to take advantage of all the tech on a rv available today because that is what I am trying to get away from when we travel.

Besides that, if you have every convenience of a home, why leave home? We think of our Roadtrek as an adventure, not just a tech laden mini house on wheels. That is the reason I don't but a new rig. Just my personal preference and I am in a significant minority, at least on this forum.

Paul

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by GallenH

.....................

How does the thermostat factor into this? This model uses a wire going into the cabinet to measure/sense heat. How do I know if it's at fault?........................

I just copied a part of one of your posts from page 1 of this topic. I think that you need to confirm that the thermostat is actually working. The cooling problem you described occurs in all 3 modes so that eliminates problems that are unique to particular modes.

I have the same vintage fridge (different model #).

For a quick test in either electrical mode, I'd use a clamp on ammeter to check that increased power consumption occurs when the thermostat dial is advanced. The electrical current will either be on or off (it won't vary based on selected temperature). If checking for basic thermostat function when using LPG mode then a similar on / bypass type behavior would be seen when observing the flame. The flame will either be in normal mode or bypass mode. Bypass mode would look like a pilot light sized flame. The flame should be larger when cooling is called for by the thermostat. The flame reverts to pilot light size when cooling is not called for.

The probe that is in the cabinet is likely a thermistor. You test part that by checking resistance. You need to research that particular part's specifications so that you can compare the ohm reading of your part with known specified resistance reading for a new replacement thermistor. Moving a thermistor up or down in a fridge can affect the temperature.

[GallenH]

Yes. That's the one. I removed it from the RV and am currently trying a burp before buying anything. When it was laying on it's side I looked at the bottom. There is a clear plastic rod (it's square) that goes from the sight hole in the front to a small (1") cutout in the box with the burner. Mine was warped enough so that the rod was above the hole. No wonder I could never see the light. Actually.....I often don't see the light. Must be age.

[GallenH]

Good thought. My thermostat has a wire/slender metal tube? that simply goes to the cabinet. I don't see - either on the fridge interior or on the parts list/diagram any type of clip on the fins. Testing it, however, is a good idea. I did test the fridge also by connecting the AC heating element directly to 120v power supply. That was my last test and it did not improve performance. So I did do a thermostat bypass. What I DIDN'T do....and will have to tomorrow morning (it's 115 in Phoenix) is an ohm test on the 120v heating element. So much fun. Have campground reservations in Glacier on Aug 10. Need to resolve soon!

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by GallenH

I thought 20 years was old! It's a Dometic 2310 3-way and the gas is ignited via a push button piezo on the front while you hold a momentary gas button down. It appears to me that once it's lit, it remains so until you turn it off. Sort of a moot point, I guess. If I were to replace it, the current model, I'm sure, has the control board that you're describing. I'll look into 6v batteries as well. There is a vented compartment for the battery....but it will only hold one. It barely measures 13" in length so a 27 might be possible but a squeeze. There is an adjacent compartment which holds the jack, etc. that's quite large but not vented. I also have a spot for the Onan (which the original buyer didn't opt for). Not sure if that can carry battery weight. From what I've read, I'd be buying 2 batteries anyways. Not good to pair an old with a new, correct?

If you are space restricted to just one battery, I suggest looking at the Lifeline series group 31. The group 27 has a length of 13.09 inches with 80ah but the group 31 is a little shorter, 12.9 inches with a very small increase in width and provides 100ah capacity. Even better is the group 31XT which has length and width dimensions the same as the 31 with just a fractional increase in height and provides 125ah which is over 50% more suds than the group 24 will provide..

These batteries aren't cheap but their usable life is much longer than any other battery I have ever used and seem very tolerant to discharge levels well over 50%. You'll spend more money initially, but over the long term, I think you are actually saving money.


Products Archive - Lifeline Batteries

[Nic7320]

Years ago, I had a cab-over camper which I used a lot, and then put it in storage for a few months. The propane fridge always worked great and did so surprisingly well in very windy conditions.

Later that year, I got it out of storage and discovered the fridge wouldn't get cold. It seemed odd, since it previously worked so well, so I checked the pilot light. The pilot light seemed to be burning fine, but then I noticed some debris in the bottom of the refrigerator cavity, more than one would expect.

It turns out a bird had built a nest right above my cooling coils. Removing the nest quickly solved my problem.

I can't say what happened when the bird it returned to an empty storage lot.