Forest River Warranty! (Coachmen Galleria)

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by Djette1

However, I am certain that we have a 3 year bumper to bumper on the camper van - and the extended warranty on all until 7 years.

Good for you...just so you know, the RV part(s) and the chassis part are 2 different warranties having nothing to do with each other.
The extended warranty is a whole nuther set of paperwork to deal with....

[Djette1]

United States Warranty. Since 1975

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Djette1

Also our warranty is through an RV extended warranty company - through the dealer – not MB. Sounds like maybe you got burned on an extended warranty?

It is approved by the Better Business Bureau. Our dealer stands behind this warranty as well. It is one of their special features that they offered to distinguish them from other dealers.

No, I have not been burned on an extended warranty. I ALMOST bought the MB one (due to the diesel DEF/emissions nightmare) until I actually read it.

However, I CAN do arithmetic, and I don't see how any third-party extended warranty can possibly be a good value. As far as I can see, they are by definition a zero-sum game. If (on average) customers win, then the warranter loses. And if (on average) the warranter loses, then they are out of business. (Yes, I know: "peace of mind". I get peace of mind from my bank account.)

OEM warrantes are NOT necessarily a bad deal--they are NOT a zero-sum game. It is just the the Mercedes' one is a pretty crappy product.


And, don't get me started on the Better Business Bureau.

[Djette1]

Well it is a personal preference, definitely a gamble, years ago it something that was a stupid thing to purchase/rip off for the average consumer. This is changing with all the electronics. If not for you, fine...I don't feel a need to justify it...just like to share my thoughts and experiences. I have about fallen out of my seat when dealers want to sell the ESP for $5,000-$10,000. Yes that is a rip off. You can buy third party warranties through Wholesale Warranties for about 1/2 the cost. However, I will also say, our dealer offered the warranty for way way way less than that/less than the whole sale warranties - shopped around and really could not believe how good a price it was. Yea...BBB is not perfect, but also a measure of some sort. For the price we paid, it was probably worth it, and we will like break even at worst.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Djette1

Well it is a personal preference, definitely a gamble, years ago it something that was a stupid thing to purchase/rip off for the average consumer. This is changing with all the electronics. If not for you, fine...I don't feel a need to justify it...just like to share my thoughts and experiences. I have about fallen out of my seat when dealers want to sell the ESP for $5,000-$10,000. Yes that is a rip off. You can buy third party warranties through Wholesale Warranties for about 1/2 the cost. However, I will also say, our dealer offered the warranty for way way way less than that/less than the whole sale warranties - shopped around and really could not believe how good a price it was. Yea...BBB is not perfect, but also a measure of some sort. For the price we paid, it was probably worth it, and we will like break even at worst.

Maybe I've missed it, where are the details for this 7 year warranty? Where can I go buy one............................................... .........?

Thanks.

Bud

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Djette1

United States Warranty. Since 1975

How does this company make money?

[Djette1]

Is that sarcasm? We bought a high-quality Brand new class B camper van. It comes with a three-year bumper-to-bumper warranty. Generally because there is already a good base warranty on it extended warranties are a really good price. The dealer sells this warranty - It is a special warranty that they sell that is one of their claims to fame as a dealer. They don’t have fancy sales or gimmicks but they have a really good warranty. I do not think You can get this warranty except through the their dealership. You can Google the company. There will be a website and a phone number – and you can call them and see if they will sell you a warranty. I hope this is a sincere question – and not challenging me because you don’t believe me.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Djette1

Is that sarcasm? We bought a high-quality Brand new class B camper van. It comes with a three-year bumper-to-bumper warranty. Generally because there is already a good base warranty on it extended warranties are a really good price. The dealer sells this warranty - It is a special warranty that they sell that is one of their claims to fame as a dealer. They don’t have fancy sales or gimmicks but they have a really good warranty. I do not think You can get this warranty except through the their dealership. You can Google the company. There will be a website and a phone number – and you can call them and see if they will sell you a warranty. I hope this is a sincere question – and not challenging me because you don’t believe me.

No sarcasm here. Question was simple. Please answer, what dealer, website, phone number.

I'm sorry if I missed it.

Bud

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Bud

No sarcasm here. Question was simple. Please answer, what dealer, website, phone number.

I'm sorry if I missed it.

Bud

Sorry, I went back and found it.

Bud

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Bud

No sarcasm here. Question was simple. Please answer, what dealer, website, phone number.

I think he or she meant me...

Originally Posted by Djette1

Is that sarcasm? We bought a high-quality Brand new class B camper van. It comes with a three-year bumper-to-bumper warranty. Generally because there is already a good base warranty on it extended warranties are a really good price. The dealer sells this warranty - It is a special warranty that they sell that is one of their claims to fame as a dealer. They don’t have fancy sales or gimmicks but they have a really good warranty. I do not think You can get this warranty except through the their dealership. You can Google the company. There will be a website and a phone number – and you can call them and see if they will sell you a warranty. I hope this is a sincere question – and not challenging me because you don’t believe me.

No sarcasm all. I am genuinely curious how you believe that a non-oem warranty company can possibly both provide value and make money. By "provide value", I mean that the average customer would at least break even. Seems numerically impossible.

Or, are you saying that the dealer subsidizes these warranties by selling them below their cost? I guess that is a logical possibility.

[Djette1]

I did ask the dealer that several times. All I can say is that the risk is low because there is such a good bumper to bumper warranty for 3 years. I am sure they make money off of investing your money, advertising/dealers maybe pay to be in their network? I don’t know there’s lots of ways to make money even when you get a lower amount of money to begin with. We do have $100 to Dr. bull after the three years. The dealer also explain that it is their advertising/marketing technique. It’s a good one.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Djette1

I did ask the dealer that several times. All I can say is that the risk is low because there is such a good bumper to bumper warranty for 3 years. I am sure they make money off of investing your money, advertising/dealers maybe pay to be in their network? I don’t know there’s lots of ways to make money even when you get a lower amount of money to begin with. We do have $100 to Dr. bull after the three years. The dealer also explain that it is their advertising/marketing technique. It’s a good one.

First of all, please understand that I am not criticizing you or your decision in any way. But, such warranties have never made any sense to me, so talking it through is valuable to me.

If the dealer is is really selling it below cost due to its advertising value, that makes sense to me. I hadn't considered that possibility. The other way that they might make money is if the warranty is not transferrable (or if there is a significant transfer fee). That would save them significant money, statistically. But, that would only benefit those who kept their rigs for the duration.

However, all the dealer's other arguments seem bogus. The excellent 3-year warranty protects you just as much as it protects the warranty company, so that is a wash--if the risk is low to them, it is low to you, too. The same is true of the "they invest the money" argument. If you didn't buy the warranty, YOU would keep the investment money--again a wash. The $100 deductible simply lowers the value to you.

EDIT:
I just though of another possibility. Are you limited to having service done by the selling-dealer? If so, they may have agreed to do the work at a discount, which makes it more like an OEM contract, which as I said is NOT zero sum.

[Djette1]

I think you misunderstood. I am only speculating on how they make money. They are not selling it below cost, they are basically selling it at cost. The dealer did explain that it is their marketing/advertising/edge over other dealers. This dealer is a mom and pop. So I do believe that. I was shown the actual costs, so I am fairly certain it was not a scam (though anyone can scam anyone). I did go to a comparable dealer who wanted almost $6000 for the same plus a $200 deductible. (Note I also get roadside assistance with the warranty.) Honestly, we paid $2050. The dealer made $50. Most dealers add several thousand dollars of mark up. There are plenty of books, articles and websites on that. A warranty worth $4000 would be marked up to $8000 minimum by a dealer. Call Wholesale Warranties - not the one I have, but the reviews are favorable for them. There is all kinds of information about them online, and they are endorsed by several RV groups. For us it is an educated gamble with little to lose. It is NON transferrable, so there is that. My point about the 3 year warranty is that the extended warranty is less the longer you have your standard warranty. I looked at an American Coach with only 1 year warranty at another dealer and they wanted $7000. I was at one time of the mindset that ESP are a total rip off and never ever bought them. As I said previously, things change. Peace of mind for this price is worth it. I would not pay the $6000-$10,000 that some people pay. (Note: the $100 deductible is per visit, not item, so you can have many items fixed under that one visit.) The bottom line is if we never use it, they make money, but that would be wonderful if we never had to use it! No one can predict that scenario for sure. Hope this helps.

[TravelinDak]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, voiding and exclusions are two different things. Exclusions are allowed. Voiding isn't. But what, exactly, does it say is excluded?

Why don't you post the exact text?

Here is the copy of the warranty I received:
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/at...1&d=1535677998

[TravelinDak]

Originally Posted by mumkin

How would they know how many days you traveled in it... and what time period?

I was thinking about traveling with my son over the summer/breaks and he was interested in doing a daily log for youtube or such. So 30-90 days of travel would be documented.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by TravelinDak

Here is the copy of the warranty I received:
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/at...1&d=1535677998

First of all, I am not a lawyer, just someone with long experience negotiating contracts. So, as legal advice, this may be worth exactly what you are paying for it. But, here's my take:

This is a pretty crappy warranty, but may well be legal. It does indeed purport to exclude vehicles used as a "full time residence", and they attempt to define that as 30 consecutive days or (worse) 18 days for two consecutive months. This is defined as an exclusion from the warranty which, as far as I know, is legal. Seems extremely unreasonable to me, but likely within their rights.

It may not matter a whole lot anyway, because there is something that is even worse: In the the second paragraph, you can see that this warranty is limited to "the body structure" of the rig. What, exactly, does that mean??? Seems to me, they are only warranting the structural integrity of body itself. This appears to exclude all systems (plumbing, cabinetry, windows, trim, etc. etc.). Since later on, it excludes the chassis, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot left that has any likelihood of failing during the 12 month (!) warranty period.

Now, if push came to shove, you MIGHT be able to argue that you have an "implied warranty of fitness for purpose". I.e., a product has to be useable for the purpose for which it was intended, which arguably includes traveling for two 18-day months in a row, and certainly includes things like the plumbing working. But, this contract doesn't give you a lot of support in these arguments.

By my eye, this warranty is all but worthless. If I were you, I would accept that I have no meaningful warranty from the upfitter and just enjoy my trip.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by avanti

. . .

By my eye, this warranty is all but worthless. If I were you, I would accept that I have no meaningful warranty from the upfitter and just enjoy my trip.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

First of all, I am not a lawyer, just someone with long experience negotiating contracts. So, as legal advice, this may be worth exactly what you are paying for it. But, here's my take:

This is a pretty crappy warranty, but may well be legal. It does indeed purport to exclude vehicles used as a "full time residence", and they attempt to define that as 30 consecutive days or (worse) 18 days for two consecutive months. This is defined as an exclusion from the warranty which, as far as I know, is legal. Seems extremely unreasonable to me, but likely within their rights.

It may not matter a whole lot anyway, because there is something that is even worse: In the the second paragraph, you can see that this warranty is limited to "the body structure" of the rig. What, exactly, does that mean??? Seems to me, they are only warranting the structural integrity of body itself. This appears to exclude all systems (plumbing, cabinetry, windows, trim, etc. etc.). Since later on, it excludes the chassis, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot left that has any likelihood of failing during the 12 month (!) warranty period.

Now, if push came to shove, you MIGHT be able to argue that you have an "implied warranty of fitness for purpose". I.e., a product has to be useable for the purpose for which it was intended, which arguably includes traveling for two 18-day months in a row, and certainly includes things like the plumbing working. But, this contract doesn't give you a lot of support in these arguments.

By my eye, this warranty is all but worthless. If I were you, I would accept that I have no meaningful warranty from the upfitter and just enjoy my trip.

After glancing through some of these ..... MAYBE... I was indeed better off purchasing "used" even with some of the nuisance issues and saving the money on the upfront depreciation... out of pocket costs.

Look, I don't know.. Roadtrek has a 6 year warranty... as far as I know, it's the longest warranty for all of these.. and also don't know if they have these crazy exclusions.

For all of the times I've contacted RT with questions they have bent over backwards to answer and help me, for example, I had the wrong statistics on the weight and axles information, they sent me a revised one..

Look, things go wrong with vehicles the moment you drive them off the lot... and if you paid "top dollar" for a brand new one... you'd better damn get your money's worth... you paid a lot for that.

The fact that you paid all of this money and got the aggravation too is pathetic. ...

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by avanti

First of all, I am not a lawyer, just someone with long experience negotiating contracts. So, as legal advice, this may be worth exactly what you are paying for it. But, here's my take:

This is a pretty crappy warranty, but may well be legal. It does indeed purport to exclude vehicles used as a "full time residence", and they attempt to define that as 30 consecutive days or (worse) 18 days for two consecutive months. This is defined as an exclusion from the warranty which, as far as I know, is legal. Seems extremely unreasonable to me, but likely within their rights.

It may not matter a whole lot anyway, because there is something that is even worse: In the the second paragraph, you can see that this warranty is limited to "the body structure" of the rig. What, exactly, does that mean??? Seems to me, they are only warranting the structural integrity of body itself. This appears to exclude all systems (plumbing, cabinetry, windows, trim, etc. etc.). Since later on, it excludes the chassis, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot left that has any likelihood of failing during the 12 month (!) warranty period.

Now, if push came to shove, you MIGHT be able to argue that you have an "implied warranty of fitness for purpose". I.e., a product has to be useable for the purpose for which it was intended, which arguably includes traveling for two 18-day months in a row, and certainly includes things like the plumbing working. But, this contract doesn't give you a lot of support in these arguments.

By my eye, this warranty is all but worthless. If I were you, I would accept that I have no meaningful warranty from the upfitter and just enjoy my trip.

I have to agree with your assessment. My actual experience was good, but if we had been forced to go to court, no doubt Coachmen would have prevailed. That said, I suspect this is the standard warranty thoughout FR and the "body" refers to the structural body that is attached to a cutaway chassis on a Class C, or on a trailer frame, which is mostly what Coachmen sells...