Ford v10 engines

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mike

The differences are not that great, the HP advantage is about 15% and the torque is less than 10% better between the Ace and the Axis. Probably roughly equal to the curb weight difference. It's all in the minutia, and my concerns about power were about hill climbing ability and both would do an admirable job. Not a show stopper at all for the shorter class A. BTW, the Ace is 3 feet longer than the Axis, but the Axis has a 10 inch advantage in wheelbase. Puzzling? Advantage Axis?

I would certainly agree that the 10" of wheelbase would be an advantage. More always seems to help. It would be interesting to see how the two units drive in the real world. The ACE is a heavier duty, bigger tired, unit, the Axis lighter and on smaller tires, so that would change things also.

The V10 engines have been the standard for towing and gas RVs for a long time, so we know none of them are "bad" at big loads. The only perspective I have is what the ACE owner told us. I would guess the extra power of the ACE would be close to what it takes to pull a toad around.

What is surprising is how inexpensive they both are compared to the escalating prices on other styles.

We saw another ACE yesterday in our current campground

[Mike]

10-4 on all of that.
It's good to see you're putting some miles on all those mods out there.
Heading home always causes mixed emotions for me after a long trip although making it home after the last one was welcomed. It's not snowing up here. Yet.
Got the fuel pump replaced and the new one is quieter than the OEM one. I guess they all hum a bit as the tank empties. Maybe fuel drain creates resonance in the tank? My tank and pump aren't part of a pressurized system like 2003 and after. Anyway I got the OEM pump after the swap, and the tech in Billings said it had good pressure so I'll keep it around as a spare.
Where in Texas are you? Any recommendations for touristy POI?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mike

10-4 on all of that.
It's good to see you're putting some miles on all those mods out there.
Heading home always causes mixed emotions for me after a long trip although making it home after the last one was welcomed. It's not snowing up here. Yet.
Got the fuel pump replaced and the new one is quieter than the OEM one. I guess they all hum a bit as the tank empties. Maybe fuel drain creates resonance in the tank? My tank and pump aren't part of a pressurized system like 2003 and after. Anyway I got the OEM pump after the swap, and the tech in Billings said it had good pressure so I'll keep it around as a spare.
Where in Texas are you? Any recommendations for touristy POI?

It has been very nice to get a chance to actually "live" in the van for an extended time and see what works well, and what doesn't work as well. This includes determining our traveling style,as in how much we move, stay etc. We have had very few downside issues to this point.

We haven't done a lot of touirsty stuff on this trip, unless you count hiking in nice parks, scenic drives, etc. We have over a week on the gulf coast, at the beaches, and it has been our favorite spot (especially Galveston Island State Park). We have lots of water in MN, but there is something special about gulf water and beaches.

POI? Lechworth State Park in NY (thanks Dick Tillinger for that tip), Smoky Mountain National Park, LL Bean Flagship store, touring the Lexington aircraft carrier in Corpus Christi was really interesting for me. Luray cave was very impressive, but we were pretty disappointed in Mammoth Cave (I think it mostly was do to very poorly designed lighting).

We did the "Parkway trifecta" of the Skyline Drive, Blueridge Parkway, and the Natchez Trace. Add in the Smokie Mountain Park parkway, and we had over 1000 miles of scenic parkways.

I have a list of things I want to tweak when we get home, and a lot of good information to go over, so at least the winter should go quickly.

[Davydd]

If I were going to buy a Class A, I would think I would go with all the power I could get and it would be one of the more important considerations. Mileage will not be a factor either way. Mountain pass ascending would be important. Most of all, towing a car would be a prime consideration going up over those mountains.

As for size, even with that F53 chassis a Class A after you add body, bumpers, etc. is most likely going to exceed 25 feet. Are there shorter? By design they end up taller than even the small Cs and consequently it would be foolish not to be wide as possible because height and length would make narrow penny wise and pound foolish. If anything, width is what gives small Cs and As an advantage over Bs in design layout such as a mid dry bath you can walk by as the main advantage. But once you go wide, over 10 feet and over 24 feet you really are no longer competing with Class Bs in any way that I can see or understand. They are too conceptually different. Marko mentioned 28 foot as comfortable. I think I would have to agree as I don't think short gains you much in a Class A. I went through the length exercise with Airstream trailers way back and length was a big factor in what you got in design, comfort and amenities. It made a big difference especially if you were going to live in one as a snow birder for any length of time. As cute, enticing and intriguing as the 16 foot Bambi Airstream was, if you had to pull and park you might as well pull as long as you could manage. I see Class As as a more drive and park it for a period of time much like trailers. One thing I would never accept in a Class A is the space either/or convertibility that you put up with in Class Bs and even a lot of small Cs.

I guess I am just not understanding small As unless it is just the intrigue of the possibility.

[booster]

IMO, the intrique with small A is that there are no predetermined locations fot things like walls, ceilings, windows, slides, etc. You could make it as tall as you want, wide or narrow, long or short, etc witout being bound by the existing bodywork of van or cutaway. No needing to put a slde only where there is already a door, for instance. Theoretically, they could compete in just about any existing size range, if there there is enough market.

[Mike]

We've been down this road many times, but for those who might have missed it.......

What are the main advantages of a class B on the longest, tallest, Sprinter chassis (3500 High Roof 170" WB EXT), compared to a small class A RUV on the Ford F-350 chassis?
At 24' + in length, they compare to the Axis 24.1 at 25' 6".
At 10' + in height, they compare to the Axis 24.1 at 11' 3". (NB - I couldn't find the exact external height of the Sprinter, not even on the MBUSA website, so it's a guess)
At 94" wide, (7' 10") the Axis 24.1 is 10% wider than the aforementioned Sprinter, which we assume is what most full sized new class B vans will be built on. The Sprinter is measured 78.5" wide, not including the mirrors, which will probably add about another 12" which takes the Sprinter up to 90" with extended mirrors. This one is probably advantage Sprinter, depending on whether mirrors count, or not.
That said, overall external size is pretty much a push. The Sprinter has a slightly smaller footprint in all external directions, but not enough to matter except in some very rare cases, which have also been discussed in other threads. Going to the Sun road being one example. The Axis might even be a contender for passage after the upgrades to it are completed as part of their 10 year plan. If the tall Sprinter fits, the RUV might as well in future. Speculative, of course.

The only other advantages that class B purists always bring up are, arguably better fuel economy (as the newer 3500 Sprinters don't get the same mileage that the older 2500 5 bangers did), and the perception of "stealth", for what that's worth.
I believe everything else that can be compared (that's measurable) is pretty much moot. Fits and finishes are probably going to vary between the 2 types of motorhome, but that comes down to added costs. Pay more to get more, if that's an option and your choice.

For my money (if I actually had any) the new RUV types of motorhomes, as coined by Thor Industries for their new, lighter chassis, smaller class A offerings, are a viable alternative to the slightly smaller, slightly better fuel economy, and perhaps slightly less obvious class B vans, as offered by Advanced RV, et al, at about half the price of the newer top end class B vans, or even less.
I believe I can buy a lot of slightly more expensive gasoline, and hide more obviously in plain sight, and i may have to use my toad once in a while to get through an occasional narrow or short roadway, all with the money I'd save on the initial purchase price difference. The extra living/lounging space, and storage, and towing capacity, and the dry bath, and other amenities, are all reasons that these newer motorhomes have some nice benefits over the smaller, and in the opinion of some, less comfortable and less roomy, class B alternatives.
If it still doesn't make sense, I would recommend going to a Thor dealer and asking for a thorough demo of an Axis or Vegas. I think you'll be surprised at what these smaller class As can do and how comfortable and roomy they are, even at the reduced size compared to the more typical larger class A specs. All at a price point that's hard to beat in terms of value for the money. That's what they're all about, I think.

[AK49er]

We walked through a Thor Axis a couple of days ago and was surprised at the room of their so called RUV. No salesman was on site to answer questions, just as well I guess. It had the smaller v10 in it along with 16" rims, don't know if larger rims are available such as 19.5 (that I would prefer), but is was a nice rig. The windshield was enormous, something we liked very much. Impressive little rig to say the least, just wish I was in the market for a new rig.

[Mike]

Did you notice or try the power forward lift bed? It's tucked up over the cab area (which might explain the size of the cockpit area) and drops down by activating a key locked switch on the passenger side wall by the door. I thought that was a nice sleeping option right next to the panoramic windshield. The whole motorhome felt just that much bigger than our little van, which was nice, considering the price. Roomy, but not tunnel - like, like a fuller sized class A. It might not be for everyone, but we were impressed.
So, where you at? Still in NV or moving east to Lone Star country?
Looks like we'll be traveling vicariously through all of you road warriors for a while. Got the dreaded jury duty call for middle of next month. No idea how that will play out, but it puts all plans on hold.

[AK49er]

Yep, noticed the bed, it was in the down position when we walked in. Found where the key goes to unlock, but no key available to raise the bed. My Queen really liked the bathroom layout and how big it opened up, the hinges to allow it to open that big makes me wonder if it would work if the rig was a little off camber? Just glad that no dealer was present to really show us around!

Camped last night on a little dirt road on the outskirts of Williams AZ, about 50 miles south of a big gully they have here in the state. Pulled out the coleman, had dinner and put everything away in case somebody said "leave!" in the middle of the night. After a week of no trees it is nice to have a little timber around us again. Seems like a lot to do around here so we may stay a couple days and check it out, I guess the gully is pretty big.

[Mike]

If your Queen liked the bathroom in the Axis, she and my copilot would get along just fine i think.

We know the area well. It's been one of our most used travel routes over the last 6 years. (I-40)
Did you do the Hoover Dam? It's a short backtrack to Kingman, then north on 95 ?
Are you on one of the USFS roads that exit to the west off of hwy 64 just north of I-40?

Were you thinking of taking the train up to the gully? We want to try that eventually, too. Next trip maybe.

FYI, there's one just off the east side of 64, just as you enter Tusayan, near a new roundabout they put there recently, if you decide to check out the big gully. We couldn't get a campsite at Mather in GCNP last April so the Ranger suggested we could park there if we wanted to. If you can't find it, the NPS campground registration booth Rangers can explain it better.
Or, you can drive to Flagstaff and boondock at one of the Walmarts there. Got GPS? There's one right at the I-17 exit just north of I-40, and another one a bit farther east along the same east west plane of latitude. We've boondocked at both but probably prefer the eastern one because it's newer and a bit further out of downtown. Less highway noise, too.
Have fun at the gully. They have free wifi but only out back of the Park Headquarters building near the campgrounds and Market Plaza. It's available M-F 8-5. It's just across the road from the cafeteria, general store and Chase bank at Market Plaza. The website says there may be other wifi sources but fees may be charged. I recall the library has free wifi but you have to ask for access.

[Fastpaddler1]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i looked at this. 25 foot Class A on e-350 chassis v10


http://axis-motorhomes.com/



the 24.1 model is the best

can be had for about 70,000

We looked at one here. Had a lot of good features. Great view out front. THen I opened the hood {??}and saw that the battery could not be removed without removing aircon condenser/plumbing and, how do you service this thing with the small open vent at front?? The V10 is fine. It has 305hp I think as it is like the engine I had in my Winnebago Aspect.

[Fastpaddler1]

Originally Posted by Mike

We've been down this road many times, but for those who might have missed it.......

What are the main advantages of a class B on the longest, tallest, Sprinter chassis (3500 High Roof 170" WB EXT), compared to a small class A RUV on the Ford F-350 chassis?
At 24' + in length, they compare to the Axis 24.1 at 25' 6".
At 10' + in height, they compare to the Axis 24.1 at 11' 3". (NB - I couldn't find the exact external height of the Sprinter, not even on the MBUSA website, so it's a guess)
At 94" wide, (7' 10") the Axis 24.1 is 10% wider than the aforementioned Sprinter, which we assume is what most full sized new class B vans will be built on. The Sprinter is measured 78.5" wide, not including the mirrors, which will probably add about another 12" which takes the Sprinter up to 90" with extended mirrors. This one is probably advantage Sprinter, depending on whether mirrors count, or not.
That said, overall external size is pretty much a push. The Sprinter has a slightly smaller footprint in all external directions, but not enough to matter except in some very rare cases, which have also been discussed in other threads. Going to the Sun road being one example. The Axis might even be a contender for passage after the upgrades to it are completed as part of their 10 year plan. If the tall Sprinter fits, the RUV might as well in future. Speculative, of course.

The only other advantages that class B purists always bring up are, arguably better fuel economy (as the newer 3500 Sprinters don't get the same mileage that the older 2500 5 bangers did), and the perception of "stealth", for what that's worth.
I believe everything else that can be compared (that's measurable) is pretty much moot. Fits and finishes are probably going to vary between the 2 types of motorhome, but that comes down to added costs. Pay more to get more, if that's an option and your choice.

For my money (if I actually had any) the new RUV types of motorhomes, as coined by Thor Industries for their new, lighter chassis, smaller class A offerings, are a viable alternative to the slightly smaller, slightly better fuel economy, and perhaps slightly less obvious class B vans, as offered by Advanced RV, et al, at about half the price of the newer top end class B vans, or even less.
I believe I can buy a lot of slightly more expensive gasoline, and hide more obviously in plain sight, and i may have to use my toad once in a while to get through an occasional narrow or short roadway, all with the money I'd save on the initial purchase price difference. The extra living/lounging space, and storage, and towing capacity, and the dry bath, and other amenities, are all reasons that these newer motorhomes have some nice benefits over the smaller, and in the opinion of some, less comfortable and less roomy, class B alternatives.
If it still doesn't make sense, I would recommend going to a Thor dealer and asking for a thorough demo of an Axis or Vegas. I think you'll be surprised at what these smaller class As can do and how comfortable and roomy they are, even at the reduced size compared to the more typical larger class A specs. All at a price point that's hard to beat in terms of value for the money. That's what they're all about, I think.

I have to agree with you., I found the Axis wasn't appreciably wider than my Sprinter but, as I questioned on this thread, I am concerned about the battery location under the tiny hood opening and serviceability and the dealer did not have an answer to that. My wife like it a lot.

AL

[Fastpaddler1]

Originally Posted by Mike

We've been down this road many times, but for those who might have missed it.......

What are the main advantages of a class B on the longest, tallest, Sprinter chassis (3500 High Roof 170" WB EXT), compared to a small class A RUV on the Ford F-350 chassis?
At 24' + in length, they compare to the Axis 24.1 at 25' 6".
At 10' + in height, they compare to the Axis 24.1 at 11' 3". (NB - I couldn't find the exact external height of the Sprinter, not even on the MBUSA website, so it's a guess)
At 94" wide, (7' 10") the Axis 24.1 is 10% wider than the aforementioned Sprinter, which we assume is what most full sized new class B vans will be built on. The Sprinter is measured 78.5" wide, not including the mirrors, which will probably add about another 12" which takes the Sprinter up to 90" with extended mirrors. This one is probably advantage Sprinter, depending on whether mirrors count, or not.
That said, overall external size is pretty much a push. The Sprinter has a slightly smaller footprint in all external directions, but not enough to matter except in some very rare cases, which have also been discussed in other threads. Going to the Sun road being one example. The Axis might even be a contender for passage after the upgrades to it are completed as part of their 10 year plan. If the tall Sprinter fits, the RUV might as well in future. Speculative, of course.

The only other advantages that class B purists always bring up are, arguably better fuel economy (as the newer 3500 Sprinters don't get the same mileage that the older 2500 5 bangers did), and the perception of "stealth", for what that's worth.
I believe everything else that can be compared (that's measurable) is pretty much moot. Fits and finishes are probably going to vary between the 2 types of motorhome, but that comes down to added costs. Pay more to get more, if that's an option and your choice.

For my money (if I actually had any) the new RUV types of motorhomes, as coined by Thor Industries for their new, lighter chassis, smaller class A offerings, are a viable alternative to the slightly smaller, slightly better fuel economy, and perhaps slightly less obvious class B vans, as offered by Advanced RV, et al, at about half the price of the newer top end class B vans, or even less.
I believe I can buy a lot of slightly more expensive gasoline, and hide more obviously in plain sight, and i may have to use my toad once in a while to get through an occasional narrow or short roadway, all with the money I'd save on the initial purchase price difference. The extra living/lounging space, and storage, and towing capacity, and the dry bath, and other amenities, are all reasons that these newer motorhomes have some nice benefits over the smaller, and in the opinion of some, less comfortable and less roomy, class B alternatives.
If it still doesn't make sense, I would recommend going to a Thor dealer and asking for a thorough demo of an Axis or Vegas. I think you'll be surprised at what these smaller class As can do and how comfortable and roomy they are, even at the reduced size compared to the more typical larger class A specs. All at a price point that's hard to beat in terms of value for the money. That's what they're all about, I think.

Yes,I agree and feel the same. I am still looking for an update for my PW but as I have posted, I am concerned about access for battery and servicing on this body over chassis unit. Looks great.

[timp410]

Originally Posted by Fastpaddler1

We looked at one here. Had a lot of good features. Great view out front. THen I opened the hood {??}and saw that the battery could not be removed without removing aircon condenser/plumbing and, how do you service this thing with the small open vent at front?? The V10 is fine. It has 305hp I think as it is like the engine I had in my Winnebago Aspect.

I have an Axis 24.1. The battery is removed from the inside by removing the fold out computer table on the passenger side. You have to remove two screws. The axis drives very well and is very stable on the road.

[Mike]

Do you hit the Rocky Mountains or any other steep uphill grades often? I've always wondered about how that chassis and drive train would handle some of those grades. Could you add some of the standout pros and cons you've noticed during your experience?
I must say I'm a little envious.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Mike

Do you hit the Rocky Mountains or any other steep uphill grades often? I've always wondered about how that chassis and drive train would handle some of those grades. Could you add some of the standout pros and cons you've noticed during your experience?
I must say I'm a little envious.

Mike if you really want one rvdirect-65000

[timp410]

Originally Posted by Mike

Do you hit the Rocky Mountains or any other steep uphill grades often? I've always wondered about how that chassis and drive train would handle some of those grades. Could you add some of the standout pros and cons you've noticed during your experience?
I must say I'm a little envious.

I've taken it up Montegle in Tennessee twice towing a 1000 pound motorcyicle on a 1200 pound trailer at 60 mph in second gear without any problems. The Standouts are the large front window, the sofa, awning and the external TV.
The Cons, I Wish the shower was a little bigger. The Slide wall prevents the drivers seat from sliding back to its furthest setting so if you are a tall person, you may feel crapped. I Had to add a Xantrex 1000 watt inverter because there was no option from the factory.

[stanw909]

Yeah. Looks just like a B too me.Not!. I'm only kidding around but wouldn't a Class A forum be the place to ask questions about the A.C.E ? I had 1990 Fleetwood Flair 26' with the rear corner bed /corner bath set up and probably would have kept it except for the fact that even with airbags , that Ford chassis rode like an old buckboard. I think Fleetwood should bring black that floor plan and add a slideout. Market it like it's a big SUV , put a solar panel on it,call it green and rake it in. I'm sure the new chassis are much improved and would ride real nice compared to that old delivery van chassis.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by stanw909

Yeah. Looks just like a B too me.Not!. I'm only kidding around but wouldn't a Class A forum be the place to ask questions about the A.C.E ? I had 1990 Fleetwood Flair 26' with the rear corner bed /corner bath set up and probably would have kept it except for the fact that even with airbags , that Ford chassis rode like an old buckboard. I think Fleetwood should bring black that floor plan and add a slideout. Market it like it's a big SUV , put a solar panel on it,call it green and rake it in. I'm sure the new chassis are much improved and would ride real nice compared to that old delivery van chassis.

Might not look like one, but you could almost hide one behind a full sized 3500 Sprinter class B conversion. They're that close in size. And I was asking about the Axis, not the ACE. Get your wallowing, lane hogging, 6 wheeled road mansion, class A nomenclature right, dude.
timp410 - thanks for the insight. Apparently, my forays outside the class B box are getting you and me some flak. I'l take the heat for it. My bad.
p.s. Stan has had all the cool toys.

[timp410]

Originally Posted by Mike

Might not look like one, but you could almost hide one behind a full sized 3500 Sprinter class B conversion. They're that close in size. And I was asking about the Axis, not the ACE. Get your wallowing, lane hogging, 6 wheeled road mansion, class A nomenclature right, dude.
timp410 - thanks for the insight. Apparently, my forays outside the class B box are getting you and me some flak. I'l take the heat for it. My bad.
p.s. Stan has had all the cool toys.

You are very welcome Mike. I just ignore post from the previous user. I have a class B motorhome as well so I often visit this forum.