Ford Transit getting AWD

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by mrshowtime3

Theres give and takes to all the chassis. I built on a Promaster. Has to be the easiest to build on because its the most boxy cargo area and the supports are evenly spaced.

I can only speak for the Promaster. Despite all the spot welded sheet metal cargo interior with punched out, curved beams I am impressed with interior alignment.

For instance the horizontal beam with the hex holes in the rear section, ready for rivnuts, and interrupted by a protruding messy looking vertical support column, the entire horizontal support beam is in alignment ! Does not look like it due to the messy vertical column, but it is. This makes building front to back wall attachments much easier.

Another discovery was that the roof reinforcement indents are true the length of the van. I am now using these to align ceiling attachments. I have eight vertical steel tubes (1.5" square) attached from floor to ceiling across the width of the van. Squaring one side to the wall attachment horizontal beam also squares on opposite side. I did not expect that level of tolerance in a box this big. In an automobile yes.

Looking at what looks like a spot welded quilt was worrisome. I wondered if the robots or factory workers paid attention when it all came together. By design it's Fiats and that did not ease my concern yet it all aligns beautifully.

Santiago

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Extremely low volume options like true 4wd on a high volume vehicle like the Transit van just don’t make sense for Ford to do themselves, that is why they have approved 3rd party companies that get the vehicles drop shipped between manufacturing and the dealers who sell the option. How many customers per year would get the true 4wd? Not enough for Ford to do it themselves...

I disagree...and so does Mercedes apparently. Plenty of companies offer low volume configurations because they care about what their customers want. Even if it's a break even cost proposition, it's worth it just from a PR perspective.

Mazda is a perfect example of this kind of corporate thinking. They are the only car company that will still sell you a top spec compact car (Mazda3) with a manual transmission. Most brands have eliminated manuals altogether. Manuals only account for about 2% of Mazda3 sales, but they do it because they want to be known as the brand who cares just that much what every customer wants...and it has paid off. They are gaining market share every year among enthusiasts who prefer manual transmissions.

By the numbers, it doesn't appear to make much sense, but there is definitely a downstream payoff that will never show up in any up front analysis. This is why bean counters shouldn't be allowed to make all the decisions. Sometimes just giving the customer what they want actually improves your brand image...and your sales.

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Maybe not crazy off road but more off road than an Sprinter or Transit with factory 4wd/AWD...

There are also videos on YT showing 4x4 Sprinter vans traversing terrain just as challenging as this.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

I disagree...and so does Mercedes apparently. Plenty of companies offer low volume configurations because they care about what their customers want. Even if it's a break even cost proposition, it's worth it just from a PR perspective.

Mazda is a perfect example of this kind of corporate thinking. They are the only car company that will still sell you a top spec compact car (Mazda3) with a manual transmission. Most brands have eliminated manuals altogether. Manuals only account for about 2% of Mazda3 sales, but they do it because they want to be known as the brand who cares just that much what every customer wants...and it has paid off. They are gaining market share every year among enthusiasts who prefer manual transmissions.

By the numbers, it doesn't appear to make much sense, but there is definitely a downstream payoff that will never show up in any up front analysis. This is why bean counters shouldn't be allowed to make all the decisions. Sometimes just giving the customer what they want actually improves your brand image...and your sales.

So, in 2018, Ford sold 137,794 Transit vans in the US and Mercedes sold 27,564 Sprinter vans in the US.

Surprising, I guess, that Ford doesn’t know what to make to satisfy it’s customers but sells more than 5 times as many vans as the company that knows what to make to satisfy their customers...

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

So, in 2018, Ford sold 137,794 Transit vans in the US and Mercedes sold 27,564 Sprinter vans in the US.

Surprising, I guess, that Ford doesn’t know what to make to satisfy it’s customers but sells more than 5 times as many vans as the company that knows what to make to satisfy their customers...

You so missed my point and you also have no idea WHY Sprinter sales have been limited. It's because Sprinter vans have not been readily available in the US. Mercedes has deliberately only imported a very small number of them up until this year, due to the complicated nature of getting around the 'chicken tax.' I know several people personally who wanted to purchase a 4x4 Sprinter, but simply couldn't get one without special ordering it from Germany, which would take 6+ months. In any case, this is all about to change now that 2019 Sprinters are being built in South Carolina and will be readily available once production ramps up...and they will eat into Transit sales.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

You so missed my point and you also have no idea WHY Sprinter sales have been limited. It's because Sprinter vans have not been readily available in the US. Mercedes has deliberately only imported a very small number of them up until this year, due to the complicated nature of getting around the 'chicken tax.' I know several people personally who wanted to purchase a 4x4 Sprinter, but simply couldn't get one without special ordering it from Germany, which would take 6+ months. In any case, this is all about to change now that 2019 Sprinters are being built in South Carolina and will be readily available once production ramps up...and they will eat into Transit sales.

Mercedes will surely sell more if they lower the price to factor in manufacturing cost reduction but they will only take a small bite out of Transit sales. The new Sprinter plant was predicated on increasing sales to 60,000 per year. Let’s see how many years it takes to get there...

If Mercedes is so focused on satisfying US customers why haven’t they updated their diesels to handle biofuels mandated in some states? Ford and GM and Cummins can do it, why not Mercedes?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

You so missed my point and you also have no idea WHY Sprinter sales have been limited. It's because Sprinter vans have not been readily available in the US. Mercedes has deliberately only imported a very small number of them up until this year, due to the complicated nature of getting around the 'chicken tax.' I know several people personally who wanted to purchase a 4x4 Sprinter, but simply couldn't get one without special ordering it from Germany, which would take 6+ months. In any case, this is all about to change now that 2019 Sprinters are being built in South Carolina and will be readily available once production ramps up...and they will eat into Transit sales.

The only Sprinter model that was limited was the 4wd option, all the other models have been easily available from Mercedes or Freightliner dealers. Maybe the lack of a widespread dealer and service network had something to do with their inability to increase sales in the US, they have been pretty flat. Or maybe the new model from the new plant will take off like gangbusters, we will see.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

You so missed my point and you also have no idea WHY Sprinter sales have been limited.

Very good, I am sure your ESP can easily determine what I know and what I don’t know...

How exactly did Mercedes go about limiting the number of Sprinter vans sold in the US?

Did they set price high enough to limit the demand?

Did they limit the number of Sprinter dealers to limit the sales?

Did they have a Diesel engine that couldn’t handle B20 diesel fuel?

Did they not update the design to let the Transit have features beyond what you could get in a Sprinter to limit the sales?

Any other methods to limit the number sold in the US?

Again, as far as I have seen, the only model of Sprinter that was scarce was the 4wd option which is a very low volume option in any case.

And, by the way, I have nothing against the Sprinter, I still own a 2008 RT Adventurous on a Freightliner badged chassis when Mercedes didn’t sell them in the US, it was Dodge or Freightliner. I also got great service from our local Freightliner dealer at prices that were much lower than the Mercedes dealers. No trouble at all with the Sprinter but it is a pre DEF engine without the NOX sensor issues of the newer models. Only failure was a $5 plastic connection between the vacuum line and the brake booster which happened in Prince George BC on the way to Alaska. Had to wait two days for the part to be sent to the local Dodge dealer who still services Sprinters from the days when they sold them. No Mercedes dealer anywhere near there and none in lots of places in the US and Canada. Ford dealers everywhere. Many people who have had both the Sprinter and the Transit find that they like the Transit better in terms of ride and handling and the EcoBoost engine to avoid all the issues with Diesel engines these days.

[Davydd]

I just ordered a new 144 WB 2WD Sprinter. Obviously I ordered to get the custom design I wanted and I have waited too long for that desiring a 2019. However, Sprinter has better design (I'm an architect and those things matter to me), vastly better safety features you can have now and not sometime in the future and I suspect more load capacity, especially compared to Promasters. I haven't analyzed the Transits. 4WD does not interest me because I can't imagine a fully loaded Class B going down roads like a Jeep. It's your home you have to protect both chassis wise and content wise. I decide based on my 90% rule and I can't imagine using a Class B even 5% of the time requiring 4WD would be my desire. I do desire more ground clearance than my current van.

I am going shorter to fit just about everywhere and a better turning radius to get just about everywhere. I have put in over 200,000 miles of Class B traveling and the only frontier I have not truly covered are the urban areas.

[ponti33602]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I just ordered a new 144 WB 2WD Sprinter. Obviously I ordered to get the custom design I wanted and I have waited too long for that desiring a 2019. However, Sprinter has better design (I'm an architect and those things matter to me), vastly better safety features you can have now and not sometime in the future and I suspect more load capacity, especially compared to Promasters. I haven't analyzed the Transits. 4WD does not interest me because I can't imagine a fully loaded Class B going down roads like a Jeep. It's your home you have to protect both chassis wise and content wise. I decide based on my 90% rule and I can't imagine using a Class B even 5% of the time requiring 4WD would be my desire. I do desire more ground clearance than my current van.

I am going shorter to fit just about everywhere and a better turning radius to get just about everywhere. I have put in over 200,000 miles of Class B traveling and the only frontier I have not truly covered are the urban areas.

When are you able to share the floor plan with us? This is very exciting. When I spoke to Mike a few years back he didn't want to do a 144 let alone a 2500. This is of great interest to me and expect others as well. I think you said somewhere smaller kitchen, larger bath....things that my wife would prefer. Also twin beds but not sure that is doable??

[Davydd]

I have posted several hints at what I am doing but want to wait until ARV can positively said they can do it. ARV did a video on it you can find on YouTube where we mocked it up at ARV. I thought I was doing it clandestinely after Advanced Fest ended last May in an unconverted 144 until Rob in the cabinet shop saw what I was doing and volunteered to expand my tape on the floor mockup with a third dimension build and then Mike Neundorfer brought out the video crew.

ARV has one RV built on a 144 2500 in Dugan which is along the lines of an action bike hauler van more for weekend use in my opinion. The other five I know about are 144 duallies and they are all different including Sue Valentine's Bucky, another one built on spec that looks similar to a Revel and one with a back sofa/bed design and one with twin beds. One thing they all have in common is a new 828ah lithium battery bank inside the van and not under the floor.