Flat Towing with a Class B - TOAD Braking System

[engnrsrule]

So we do not see much about pulling a Toad with a Class B, but we got into it soon after getting our Roadtrek (Diesel Sprinter). We started with a Subaru Forester (manual), which did well but was just getting too old. We went to a Jeep Cherokee. The Trailhawk Series has a neutral position on the transfer case so you can flat tow with an automatic transmission. There are a few mods that the Jeep requires -specifically a couple of wiring harnesses to activate power steering while towing (Steering pump is electric).

For braking under tow we started out with a Brake Buddy in the Subaru, and moved it to the Jeep. I have had issues with BBs. There have been times when it just stopped working with no apparent cause. Also it must be installed each use and removed when you need to drive he TOAD. Also, it is only triggered by inertia, and is either all on or all off. We decided to go to a progressive braking system and chose the Demco Stay In Play System. This system uses vacuum assist, and relies on both inertia and braking signal from the towing vehicle to apply a degree of braking consistent with what the towing vehicle is doing. The system must have both a signal from the towing vehicle brake light wiring AND sense inertial deceleration to apply the TOAD’s brakes. A pneumatic cylinder on the brake pedal arm pulls the pedal downward when braking is triggered.

Stay in Play comes with a very bright led indicator that they suggest mounting on front of the TOAD’s rear-view mirror. However, it (or any other 12v light) can also be located in the towing vehicle cockpit, with the signal coming from one additional conductor. We reconfigured pre-existing towing brake controller wiring to deliver the monitor light signal. The monitor signal is pulled from the cold side of the brake light switch, and reaching this wire is a challenge for a DIYer. Overall installation is DIY capable but I would give it an 8 out of 10 for complexity/skill required.

Another feature I like is that the main control unit goes up under the hood. An adjustable inertial sensor is mounted on the driver side kick panel, and includes the On/Off switch for the system. This device determines how much braking is applied. Then there is the actuating cylinder on the brake pedal, with a cable that attaches to the firewall. Everything stays in place when you decouple, and is ready to go when you Toad Up. The actuator does not interfere with normal braking.

Installation took most of a day, but locating, and finding a way to connect to the brake light switch cold lead took more than half my time. In making the brake monitor connection through my TOAD’s 6-way connector, I found a few issues and had to rewire the entire connector.

[mumkin]

Many of us drive a B so that we don't need a toad. Actually with my last three, my B is my only vehicle.

[Bangorbob]

Originally Posted by engnrsrule

So we do not see much about pulling a Toad with a Class B, but we got into it soon after getting our Roadtrek (Diesel Sprinter). We started with a Subaru Forester (manual), which did well but was just getting too old. We went to a Jeep Cherokee. The Trailhawk Series has a neutral position on the transfer case so you can flat tow with an automatic transmission. There are a few mods that the Jeep requires -specifically a couple of wiring harnesses to activate power steering while towing (Steering pump is electric).

For braking under tow we started out with a Brake Buddy in the Subaru, and moved it to the Jeep. I have had issues with BBs. There have been times when it just stopped working with no apparent cause. Also it must be installed each use and removed when you need to drive he TOAD. Also, it is only triggered by inertia, and is either all on or all off. We decided to go to a progressive braking system and chose the Demco Stay In Play System. This system uses vacuum assist, and relies on both inertia and braking signal from the towing vehicle to apply a degree of braking consistent with what the towing vehicle is doing. The system must have both a signal from the towing vehicle brake light wiring AND sense inertial deceleration to apply the TOAD’s brakes. A pneumatic cylinder on the brake pedal arm pulls the pedal downward when braking is triggered.

Stay in Play comes with a very bright led indicator that they suggest mounting on front of the TOAD’s rear-view mirror. However, it (or any other 12v light) can also be located in the towing vehicle cockpit, with the signal coming from one additional conductor. We reconfigured pre-existing towing brake controller wiring to deliver the monitor light signal. The monitor signal is pulled from the cold side of the brake light switch, and reaching this wire is a challenge for a DIYer. Overall installation is DIY capable but I would give it an 8 out of 10 for complexity/skill required.

Another feature I like is that the main control unit goes up under the hood. An adjustable inertial sensor is mounted on the driver side kick panel, and includes the On/Off switch for the system. This device determines how much braking is applied. Then there is the actuating cylinder on the brake pedal, with a cable that attaches to the firewall. Everything stays in place when you decouple, and is ready to go when you Toad Up. The actuator does not interfere with normal braking.

Installation took most of a day, but locating, and finding a way to connect to the brake light switch cold lead took more than half my time. In making the brake monitor connection through my TOAD’s 6-way connector, I found a few issues and had to rewire the entire connector.

I have used RVI brake system and liked it. I could move it from one vehicle to another if need be. EZ set up. Good luck.

[jrobe]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Many of us drive a B so that we don't need a toad. Actually with my last three, my B is my only vehicle.

I can't really figure that out either. If I was willing to drive a long rig (RV + car), I would want to have a bigger living space than a Class B. Small is the whole point for us.

[engnrsrule]

Our decision to pull a TOAD goes back to a few trips where a second vehicle turned out to be advantageous. Examples are New Orleans...We stay at Bayou Segnette State Park which is lovely. Getting around the city in the RV is a pain - narrow streets, low hanging oak trees, lots of parking restrictions, and horrible roads. We tried going there once without a TOAD and rented a vehicle when we got there. That is an option, but a cost benefit comparison is a good idea.

We go to Music fests where the parking can be a challenge, and some days run late. Getting back to the rig and crashing without set up routine is well worth it. Other times we take side trips with the TOAD. We go without a TOAD when we won't have these challenges.

More space would be nice but 22 mpg without the TOAD and 17 mpg with the TOAD are reason enough for us not to go bigger.

[engnrsrule]

Some pictures of the principle components of the Stay-In-Play system.

Main Unit - Controller, vacuum pump and air pump, mounted on top of engine compartment fuse box.

G-Force Controller - provides adjustable inertia input to determine degree of braking applied. Also has stem On/Off switch. Mounted at driver side kick panel.

Actuating cylinder - pneumatic cylinder that pulls the brake pedal toward the floor by means of a cable.

Monitor light (not pictured) - this light is energized when the TOAD system is braking. I located it in the towing vehicle in a storage pocket next to steering wheel. It is VERY bright. I may change to a less blinding light more in direct view.

[jjrbus]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Many of us drive a B so that we don't need a toad. Actually with my last three, my B is my only vehicle.

Agreed, I pulled a toad with my 35 foot diesel pusher. If I were going to pull a toad it would be with something with more room in it. On the rare occasion when I might actually need a car, I will rent one.

[BillsPaseo]

Not all of us have the same use case for owning a Class B. I can totally understand the engnrsrule's scenario and wanting a TOAD. We tow a small enclosed trailer, with two dual sport motorcycles on board, and those are our primary transportation when we reach a destination.

Whenever anyone asks questions about towing on this forum, they always get a lot of "why would you want to do that" responses, instead of actual answers to the questions.

engnrsrule, you might find better information on a more general RV forum like iRV2 (where there is an entire section dedicated to TOADs and towing questions).

[Hatteras Jim]

On our 3 cross-country trips, the only places that we did not take our sprinter was San Fran, Key West and Boston (not because of driving; but, parking). We avoided NYC and New Orleans (just not for us). I think there were a few roads in the National Parks that were not suited for the B in CA and Utah (either 4x4 was required or our vehicle length was too great). In San Fran, we took public transportation outside of the campground to downtown and we also did the same in Key West (I think that was a 10 mile trip from the campground). The Senior bus rate was ridiculously cheap (~$1.50 each way). In Boston, we parked at an outlying train station, that had a parking lot that would accommodate RVs, and took the train downtown. In 48 states, they were the only challenges for our sprinter in places that we visited.

We were only spending 2 or 3 nights at each campground across the US, so we wanted mobility without the hassle of a towed vehicle. If we were visiting an area for a week or two, a smaller towed vehicle would have been nice for exploring. Since our sprinter had major malfunctions (10 starts left) on each trip, an extra vehicle would have been handy while it was in the garage for repairs. 5 Sprinter repair facilities in 3 trips. Not too bad.

Thanks for your information. Good point about the electric power steering, my Honda has that.

[engnrsrule]

We are in last 10 days of a 45 day cross country pulling the Jeep with the Demco brake system. This system is secure, predictable, dependable, and very effective. SOOOOOO much better than the brake buddy. Braking is progressive, so as they are applied and held in the RV, the Jeep brakes follow suit. All feels very natural.

Crossing the mountains did require some tweaking of the inertia sensor. This is an easy process of loosening a thumbscrew and moving a lever higher for less, or lower for more sensitivity. I found the brakes to be a bit too aggressive, and a small reduction in sensitivity made big improvement.

Also really like the ease of setting up jeep for towing. For brakes just flip a switch; for steering, there is a switch and a breaker to throw (the steering is a MOPAR harness kit that energizes power steering when flat towed...prevents death wobble); Lastly, complete the process to put transfer case in neutral.