Fit RV gives detail review of Travato 59K

[gerrym51]

seems like odd place for the gravity fill. roadtreks are usually in the door

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

seems like odd place for the gravity fill. roadtreks are usually in the door

Their water tanks have a spout and cap on their tops. The 59G is the same way. It's a really inexpensive way to have a fill I suppose.

So this tells us the water tank in the 59K is under the bed, against the wall, just rear of the side entry door.

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

No worries, I understand what you are saying. To me, quality is how well something holds up with use. Some may not like the finishes chosen, or the layout, but those are not quality issues. But everything comes at a price, as we all know.

As far as the sawdust goes, I consider that a dealer issue. They obviously weren't very thorough on the cleanup or PDI. It was a busy weekend there - they delivered a long list of RV's that weekend.

Sorry for being rude about WGO products. I think it is important to be critical about what the industry offers, to challenge it. As you are saying, stanw909, Winnebago is listening and it shows. They were the first to acknowledge the advantage of an "affordable" ProMaster based campervan and are testing the market with the unique and innovative 59K layout. They know that the design of a B van can always evolve because of the slow and low tech manufacturing process we have here in North America. It is not important to thourougly address all issues when the vehicle is launched. It evolves in a emerging incremental process. Wincrasher, you bought a new 59G just one year after your first 59G for obvious reasons.

And if nobody complaints, nothing changes, or it takes forever to do so. Just look at the poor design of the bathroom sink on the RT Agile that was finally ditched last year. When we tried to buy an Agile a year ago we asked if it could be modified, reading about all the complaints on blogs, but RT said no. We eventually cancelled our contract because we couldn't agree on many BTO requests. Luckily Safari Condo was designing their new ProMaster van.

We are witnessing important changes in the tiny B sector because of a growing B Boom market. No wonder the Hymer group is interested in finding new markets. The pressure is there to offer new products at all costs. Just look at Roadtrek and their rush to come up with their Zion in white painted particle board and are now back to their traditional merry-cherry ( I agree that the white interior finish was not very appealing ) Every manufacturer are now testing new layouts and vehicles. What is needed now is more scrupulous work, good design above all (whatever that means ) with efficient manufacturing industrial process to offer better quality at affordable costs. I believe Winnebago has the potential to get even better at what they do, but they still have a long road ahead. Hopefully you have high quality design work in very small companies like ARV, Outside Van and Safari Condo and they are booming. The major players in the industry have to be aware of these contemporary examples of well designed Bs, and address their conservative and sometimes poorly designed RVs. Just read what the Wynns are saying about the lack of a contemporary offer in the pathetic Class A sector.

OK I'm through with my long diatribe. Thanks for reading. I appreciate very much sharing my thoughts and reading yours on the wonderful world of Bs.

[wincrasher]

No worries George, your input is great!

My only complaint with the manufacturers is that things are moving so fast. They are constantly tweaking and making "running changes". On one hand, it's great they are responding to customers and the market by improving the product immediately and not waiting on the next model year update. On the other, it sucks if you buy and miss out on the changes.

If you look at it closely, there were actually 3 major revisions to the 59G model in 2015.

Early on you had 2015's that were identical to 2014's. Then you had a major revision to some interior pieces. Then you had exterior changes - the paint schemes - coupled with a couple interior tweaks.

My local dealer has all three versions on his lot right now, all labeled 2015 models. If you don't know what you are buying, what to look for, you could walk away feeling screwed.

I think most customers think buying an RV is similar to buying a car - each year the model features and options are set at the debut of the model year and are constant from there.

This is one reason I shied away from buying a 59K (among other reasons). I'm sure that with all the new stuff they are packing into this van, there will be some tweaks required.

[GeorgeB]

I agree, wincrasher, that was the major dispute when we bought our RT Agile. After visiting the plant and agreeing on several options, they made several revisions without informing the dealer. So much for RT. Anyway, I first wanted to order the van without any of the interior grandma's kitchen cabinets and finishes. So it was a culture clash from the beginning. The only thing that I liked was the layout. Apart from having NO storage for camping gear, it is a layout that challenges the short Sprinter. Haven't seen many functional layouts with enclosed bathroom for the short Sprinter.

I have a collection of examples and principles of layouts on this 144 Sprinter project FB album
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2388992&type=3
My project, to design a innovative camper built on the new 4x4 short Sprinter



The HRZ sprinter http://www.hrz-reisemobile.de/pages/bildergalerie.php



.

[Davydd]

I went through a desire to build on the 144" wb Sprinter for a while. Finally decided it was not up to the task I wanted for long range trips like driving to Alaska and back over 2-3 months. The German CS Reisemobile DUO was my favorite plan that I felt could be adapted. Once I got over the desire to have a short Sprinter I concentrated on designing one on the 170" wb and eventually went to the extended body to achieve my goals. Advanced RV has only built on the 170" wb and the vast majority of their customers opt for the extended body 24 ft. over the regular body 22'-9". If anyone could build a 19'-4" Sprinter I bet they could. They take on challenges such as our articulated beds and the most recent one with this upper fold back bunk for small children over the top of a trip-fold sofa.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

So far they have been very open to ideas in the bed area in the back, the front area forward of the refrigerator in the front, the kitchen galley layout and have modified the bathroom in some ways, including a composting toilet in one. But also so far they've only worked from their one basic plan which I thought was a solid plan base to start with.

[bobojay]

wincrasher's comment about the quick changes in the same model year hit a cord with me. It's not the same model year, but if we'd have waited 2 more weeks to order our ERA 70A, we'd have gotten a '14 instead of a '13. The '14 & 15's have a much better exterior graphics setup, (if any at all), than the '13 does.
Also we'd have gotten a multistage converter and multiple enhancements to the drain valve handles and setup, metal instead of cheap plastics.
We ended up getting the last '13 ERA that our dealer got in with '14's coming in the following week, 2 of which were already sold.

Seems WGO is taking the quick updates road with their ProMaster class B's and letting the Sprinter units stagnate with the same old stuff inside.

Hopefully when their new Transit units appear, (yes they have a few on the property in Iowa), they'll do the fast update route on them also....
And the comment about the sawdust issue. That is a dealer miscue

[MarionSSS]

WGO has Transits? Did you take any pictures?

[wincrasher]

It wouldn't really surprise me if WGO became the first manufacturer to abandon the Sprinter completely. Think about the markets they go after - they position themselves to be a value line for the most part. If they have Transits in house right now, then expect to see some grand reveal at Hershey in September!

[MarionSSS]

I agree, although I'd like to see Ford boost the GVWR for their Transits. The V6 Ecoboost certainly has enough power and torque for it.

[GeorgeB]

A WGO Transit! The van has good credentials in Europe concerning the versatility of drivetrain options (FWD and RWD depending on size)
Unfortunately the high roof Transit has weird top-heavy proportions, and the medium roof is unusable as an rv if you're north of 5'6".
I know, it's always a question of personal (and acquired!) taste!






Curious to see if GM will also go eurovan and bring it's Opel Movano / Renault master in North america.

[avanti]

That roof treatment is weird. Looks like a botched Photoshop job.

[wincrasher]

I expect the long body van, with that tremendous rear overhang, to have less than desirable handling characteristics.

Where this van will shine, though, is the cut-away chassis.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by avanti

That roof treatment is weird. Looks like a botched Photoshop job.

It is a botched Photoshop image. Look at the actual photos of the Transit not nearly as bad at roof line.

[Davydd]

I've seen a few Transits on the road now. Their sides are more straight up than a Sprinter and that is what gives them the top heavy proportions. I suppose you'd get used to it. Of course that straight up side will be a great benefit in inside outfitting and design I think. What did strike me odd was in that side view of the hood snout the way it projected out. Reminds me of a porpoise.

[skagitstan]

The nose reminds me of a malamute puppy.


Guess that's a good thing, since I've lived with Mals for many years, and have a tall long Transit on order!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

It is a botched Photoshop image. x

Ah. That explains it.

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Where this van will shine, though, is the cut-away chassis.

I agree wincrasher. My personal opinion is that WGO will maybe?? abandon the ProMaster class C's they are building right now, and change over to the Transit diesel & EcoBoost.
The reason I feel this way mostly is because the Trend/Viva PM's have been out for about 18 months now with virtually no changes to the 2 floorplans that I've seen. Also I think that rear single wheel setup is scaring people away from them. It sure does me....
The Transit van will be converted also eventually, but maybe not till later. Shoot, Ford is still behind on their Transit orders, so the RV market will be waiting a bit for product to convert

[eurovanman]

They are showing the three different heights.

Originally Posted by avanti

That roof treatment is weird. Looks like a botched Photoshop job.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by bobojay

I agree wincrasher. My personal opinion is that WGO will maybe?? abandon the ProMaster class C's they are building right now, and change over to the Transit diesel & EcoBoost.
The reason I feel this way mostly is because the Trend/Viva PM's have been out for about 18 months now with virtually no changes to the 2 floorplans that I've seen. Also I think that rear single wheel setup is scaring people away from them. It sure does me....
The Transit van will be converted also eventually, but maybe not till later. Shoot, Ford is still behind on their Transit orders, so the RV market will be waiting a bit for product to convert

My dealer told me that the Trend/Viva is not selling well and needs a dually rear setup. Payload is low and handling is poor I suppose. They aren't really heavy, so power is not really an issue.