Facebook

[KurtFranz]

I do not have a Facebook account and told myself I would never create one. However, it appears I may have to succumb if I want to keep in the loop so to speak, as the forums are dying a slow death it appears....

I tried creating an anonymous account but it is virtually impossible to accomplish that anymore with all of the algorithms and such that can be used to check on things.

[booster]

Originally Posted by KurtFranz

I do not have a Facebook account and told myself I would never create one. However, it appears I may have to succumb if I want to keep in the loop so to speak, as the forums are dying a slow death it appears....

I tried creating an anonymous account but it is virtually impossible to accomplish that anymore with all of the algorithms and such that can be used to check on things.

I do hope the forums stay around as the layout and ease of finding stuff is so much better than Facebook which is more like the old email lists like the old Yahoo ones were. Everything in chronological order so stuff disappears quickly and can be very hard to find on Facebook.

[jjrbus]

I avoided FB as long as I could then some of my favorite Guru's in various endeavors moved there so I had no choice but to follow or go it alone.

FB is good in some ways but no beating forums for finding info quickly or archived information.

[Ken Allan]

I too hate facebook, but, I have to refer to it to get some specific info from folks that have similar equipment. It was particularly irksome that SOK battery "Customer Service" is only on facebook.

I have gotten useful information from knowledgable people...but also answers from total idiots. As others here have noted, it's difficult at best to search facebook so the same questions get asked over and over. If I do actually see some good info, I will try to copy and paste it into a text file because I'll never be able to find it again.

According to the "rules" you can't have an alias... but I do. Might be because it was done years ago when I needed it for work? You might need a disposable email address??

[Davydd]

I like Facebook. I keep up with many friends I meet on the road and see their RV adventures. It is a great way to keep up with far flung family. There are specific groups for about every Class B so you can hone in for your specific interest. The manufacturers have Pages for support and interaction. You just have to know how to search. You can search Facebook generally or search just a specific group. You also have to know that search covers every word you enter so if you use generic words such as "RV" it will bring up more than you can handle. So, yes it would be difficult to search "Class B". You might get groups and pages but not specific comments. Searching for groups is easier then wnen in a group, searching just the group is a lot easier.

I created a group for a rare sandwich primarily sold in two Midwest states (IN & IA) and partially in two other states (IL & MO) and now have over 98,000 members and more posts and comments in a day than this forum gets in a week or more.

[Snowy]

Originally Posted by KurtFranz

I tried creating an anonymous account but it is virtually impossible to accomplish that anymore with all of the algorithms and such that can be used to check on things.

It is actually easy to get an anonymous account on facebook. Just set up an account at facebook with a fake name. For more anonymity, get a fake email using that fake name at google gmail (or any other free email service) and use that email to set up your anonymous facebook account. This level of anonymity means that people on facebook won't know who you really are, but i expect that some tracking methods used by goggle, facebook, et al can connect the dots to you. If you are concerned about that you can go to the effort of using a VPN to disguise your IP address, and use more privacy focused browsers like Firefox or even Tor.

I know people who have two facebook accounts, one real for old friends, and one fake for more public things like joining facebook groups.

[phantomjock]

FB posings tend to load photos. No pic = no interest.
Unfortunately all too many forums seem to be "light" on images. I don't know if it is it is a "generational" issue, laziness, or perceived idea that they add little. 1000 words in every one.

Plus, I have found it a bit easier to search and get quicker answers on FB. I only joined it to sell a race car and a sailboat. Then, buy a RT! Plus it gives me contact with old squadron mates, so, there is its own entrapment, if not just "family."

Fortunately, the RT, HAM, and similar focused member-only groups, tend to be clear of all the "crap" that it has on other sections.

Your mileage may vary.

Cheers - Jim

[phantomjock]

Opps - I forgot Davydd's Chasing Pork Tenderloin... Nice exchanges of good opportunities for a great meal.
Cheers - Jim

[Punkinhead]

There's a user group on Facebook for our van manufacturer and it's incredibly frustrating. Facebook is a terrible way to share information. The search function must have been written by grade schooler - it often misses posts that contain the keyword and when it does return hits it doesn't prioritize them in any way so you may need to individually click through dozens of posts to try to find something relevant. And it doesn't return results linked to individual replies. Instead the results are by thread so you have to open each individual thread, sometimes having to expand it multiple times, and manually scroll through replies looking for the keyword.

My even bigger frustration is the way the algorithm hides or shows posts. I don't see every post to the group and neither does my wife and what we each get is different. I might see a post on some subject of interest and when I mention it to my wife it's not showing up in her feed, even when she goes to the group's page. And sometimes I'll see a post with a question or subject I'm interested in and when I go back it's gone. Sometimes it'll show up again later and sometimes not. Sometimes a search will find it and sometimes not.

In my mind Facebook can't die fast enough. It's a Boomer thing so will die with them. I know that forums like this one are dwindling too but even my Millennial children who tend to use Reddit admit that forums are a better way to transmit, archive, and retrieve information than Facebook and Reddit.

[mumkin]

Facebook is a truly 2nd rate replacement for the traditional forum format. That said, as someone who lived and worked overseas for many years, it is a great way to keep in touch with my acquaintances who are now spread all over the planet. Yes, we are a bunch of retired boomers for the most part. Guilty as charged... lol

There are a bunch of groups based on models which are truly useful for those shopping for their first rig, those with new rigs with the normal teething issues, and those dealing with the inevitable breakdowns. With a sharing of good and bad places to visit, boondock, and camp. They are especially useful for the Roadtreks with the overly complicated Ecotrek lithium system. The Zion/Simplicity Owners Group is probably the best of the lot... friendly, polite, patient owners and there is almost always someone online who can help... even if just to handhold until someone shows up with more knowledge... including a few Roadtrek current and past employees to explain things. There is another group of more techie types on the Ecotrek system.

That is what makes it worth joining, but as Punkinhead pointed out, it is such a garbage system. Search is pretty useless. Whereas Forums make it easy to find a thread or the threads on your topic, with FB stuff slides down the page and disappears into oblivion. That means that the common topics have to be answered over and over and over again. For instance, Norcold shipped out hundreds of fridges with the thermostats randomly miswired. An easy fix that only required a needle nosed pliers, but for 3 years the topic came up from every new owner - a few times a week. There is a section called "files" and someone added directions to fix along with photos. The daily "where can I find a replacement part... for lights, awning bits, cabinet latches...etc" was helped by a member building a list of where to find parts - updated regularly. Easier to just link them to the list.

FB keeps "updating" the process making it more and more frustrating and user unfriendly. I never use it on the phone because that is the worst. If you are on a computer, you can download a program like Social Fixer which lets you "fix" lots of issues related to FB algorithms. You can visit the group page, and change the list to new posts... rather than the odd and useless choices of the algorithms.

The positives are why I tend to refer people to FB to get help with obscure Roadtrek issues.

[Davydd]

In my Facebook group I had one post on September 27 and two weeks later this day I have 1,931 comment replies, 6,202 reactions, and 1,475,576 views. As long as someone comments it rises to the top of the queue. There is no independent forum with that kind of traffic. In four days I've had 800 more people join the group. I average about 30 new posts per day with reviews and photos, over 1,000 comment replies and over 6,000 reactions (likes). It's crazy just for a breaded pork tenderloin sandwich most of you never had.

[avanti]

IMO, the primary value of fora such as this one is as a self-correcting repository of reliable and reasonably organized information. In this regard, they are cousins of Wikipedia. They also serve a social-networking function, but this is strictly a secondary goal.

Facebook is exactly the opposite. It is first and foremost a social-networking platform. The accumulation of data is strictly a secondary goal. In this regard, it is a cousin of X/Twitter.

I will not here express an opinion of which function is "better" or "more important", but recognizing the distinction in basic goals explains many things.

For one thing, it explains why "number of members" is a pretty irrelevant metric for comparison. If you are a social network, headcount is everything. It is the measure of success. But, if you are compiling an encyclopedia, the LAST thing you want is too many contributors. The measure of success is not how many people contribute, but how many people benefit from the effort as consumers of the resulting information. I dare say that most fora have a great many more consumers than contributors. These consumers mostly find information via organic search and never bother to join the lists in question, and so are "invisible". This may not be great for those trying to monetize a forum, but I think it is good for the world.

Of course, one can imagine a platform that does a good job at both of these goals. Quora comes to mind as a worthy effort in this regard.

[Davydd]

I don't get compensated on Facebook so don't care if I monetized my group. It is just a hobby and I have built a database no other has. I have been at this since 1988 when I was one of the first forum leaders at Apple Personal Link that evolved into America Online. I built the largest database of computer art and graphics at the time and had over 10% of the AOL minutes. I did get compensated but at a fixed rate. The dial up AOL, Compuserve and Genie were killed off by the Internet.

The consumers of my Facebook group do benefit from the contributors. I call the consumers the audience and the contributors are the actors on the stage. The actors too have their hobby incentives.

There are some influencers on Facebook that reach an audience way greater than any independent forum can achieve. Remember Mike Wendland? He came onto this forum as a beginning RVer. He has built a following of 237,000 members on Facebook. That's reaching more people than any independent Internet forum. He does monetize his efforts and he provides almost any RV subject there is, some good, some bad, some ridiculous.

Facebook has a group for almost anything and everything you desire to follow and several on any one subject. Most RV manufacturers have Pages to provde information and answer questions and control the posts. Some have groups so like owners can get together, post and answer and offer advice from their experiences on the RV or general topics like travel destinations. You can cut through the chaff and not weed through all the Roadtrek topics and questions in this forum for instance.

Facebook is popular with baby boomers doting and keeping up with children and grandchildren. But then many Class B RVers are baby boomers. Younger RVers and mostly have trailers. The really young have backpacks.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

That's reaching more people than any independent Internet forum.

How do you know?

Specifically, how do you determine how many non-members a given independent Internet forum reaches via organic search?

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Davydd

There are some influencers on Facebook that reach an audience way greater than any independent forum can achieve. Remember Mike Wendland? He came onto this forum as a beginning RVer. He has built a following of 237,000 members on Facebook. That's reaching more people than any independent Internet forum. He does monetize his efforts and he provides almost any RV subject there is, some good, some bad, some ridiculous.

Facebook has a group for almost anything and everything you desire to follow and several on any one subject. Most RV manufacturers have Pages to provde information and answer questions and control the posts. Some have groups so like owners can get together, post and answer and offer advice from their experiences on the RV or general topics like travel destinations. You can cut through the chaff and not weed through all the Roadtrek topics and questions in this forum for instance.

Without doubt the worst Facebook experience was the one run by Wendland and the old Roadtrek company. It was pure PR... only happy happy allowed. I was a member in 2015 when I bought probably the very first Ecotek off the line... and it died in 6 days with no clue provided for how one restarts it. I came on the page looking for help... quickly got 58 responses who, of course, knew nothing about it either. Eventually, the RT CEO showed up and basically told me to shut up and take my questions to the factory tomorrow. I was banned from the page by the next morning by Wendland's crew. (and the factory didn't know how to restart it either... in another two weeks, I had the system pulled and replaced it with a couple AGMs. All of the first ones out had this problem and it took them a few months to figure it all out and make a few changes to the system.)

Those of us who got tossed off Wendlands page formed our own groups where we are allowed to criticize the product and get help to get things working... and can stay as long as we are polite about it. I would only join owners groups, not company run groups.

[GeorgeRa]

I use Facebook Messenger very often to communicate with friends, less erratic than other video systems like Skype. For voice calls Skype is great. To share or discuss specific topics dedicated forums are unbeatable.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Without doubt the worst Facebook experience was the one run by Wendland and the old Roadtrek company. It was pure PR... only happy happy allowed. I was a member in 2015 when I bought probably the very first Ecotek off the line... and it died in 6 days with no clue provided for how one restarts it. I came on the page looking for help... quickly got 58 responses who, of course, knew nothing about it either. Eventually, the RT CEO showed up and basically told me to shut up and take my questions to the factory tomorrow. I was banned from the page by the next morning by Wendland's crew. (and the factory didn't know how to restart it either... in another two weeks, I had the system pulled and replaced it with a couple AGMs. All of the first ones out had this problem and it took them a few months to figure it all out and make a few changes to the system.)

Those of us who got tossed off Wendlands page formed our own groups where we are allowed to criticize the product and get help to get things working... and can stay as long as we are polite about it. I would only join owners groups, not company run groups.

Mumkin,

I have to agree in part with you. I don't bother to go to their discussion group. They have always been motivated monetarily. That is what most all influencers and YouTubers are. Consequently they have to scramble for content. So some bad, some ridiculous but some good and worth reading. He's a news man and investigative reporter prior. I've met the Wendlands. They are nice people. I've gone to his Winter Freezeout they organize a few times in the Upper Peninsula at Tahquamenon Falls SP a few times in January. They have one this coming January but we're not going. We will be rounding Cape Horn this year. The Freezeout is a challenge when it gets down to -15 degrees F. and a couple of feet of snow. Electrical hookups and plowed sites helped but the vault toilets were a challenge for a few. BTW, there is a Facebook group just for the Winter Freezeout. Good group of people, mostly Roadtrek in the past, but I think it is changing to all types of RVs.

My Facebook group, I have a specific mission and don't allow any questions. Just contributions and every post is that. They can criticize a sandwich or restaurant but not a fellow member's choices. Consequently, I've built a group despite a half dozen groups with the same content where mine is more than 10 times the membership. The Wendlands, if what you say, are protecting the manufacturers, and not the members.

[mumkin]

Wendland was "owned" by Roadtrek, given a free rig to control the FB page was part of the job and the eventually fired CEO monitored it for "good behavior." lol Wendland kept the page when RT imploded, and the name changed to match his website... pretty much the only way to monetize a FB page.

But seriously a good FB page, like a good forum, depends on good admin... who sets the parameters and rules, and enforces them. That can be a thankless job.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

IMO, the primary value of fora such as this one is as a self-correcting repository of reliable and reasonably organized information. In this regard, they are cousins of Wikipedia. They also serve a social-networking function, but this is strictly a secondary goal.

Facebook is exactly the opposite. It is first and foremost a social-networking platform. The accumulation of data is strictly a secondary goal. In this regard, it is a cousin of X/Twitter.

…..

This hits the nail on the head. The worst conflicts I’ve had on other forums (not this one) began with me imploring people who wish for forums to become PURELY SOCIAL exchanges to please stay off my threads and make their own danged threads, because I am looking for ideas, experiences, and information. If I want chit-chat, I’ll go over to Facebook.

But no - every time I’m trying to solve a problem, there are attempts to hijack my threads with judgments, editorializing, and what-are-you-doing-this-weekending. At one point, I lamented that all forums do not at least have the kind of “upvoting lite” option that we see on Sprinter Source, because that makes coping with the s***-posting problem a bit easier, and of course, that suggestion was a calamity in itself… sigh.

Quality over quantity, every day, every time!! I do not care how many users or posts appear in the Airstream Interstate Facebook group. It will never be as valuable as Class B Forum or the Airforums B-van child forum (if one knows how to navigate it).

But… back to the OP’s opener: Why the concern that forums will be displaced? I haven’t seen any indications of their demise.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

But… back to the OP’s opener: Why the concern that forums will be displaced? I haven’t seen any indications of their demise.

How about the complete collapse of RV Net? Is it even online anymore? I finally stopped even opening the site because of the lack of posts. So, I just checked and the B section has had 1 relevant thread start with 3 responses this month. (plus 2 threads in the wrong group)

Another professional forum that I visited daily and posted on regularly for many years got the final nail in its coffin with covid and disappeared completely.