Europe vs. North America

[wincrasher]

Interesting - all diesel drivetrain, cooking, heating and water heating on this one. Don't think we've seen that in any of the European Ducato conversions.

[Nomad32]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Interesting - all diesel drivetrain, cooking, heating and water heating on this one. Don't think we've seen that in any of the European Ducato conversions.

All diesel is an intriguing concept for boondocking capabilities. I contacted Safari Condo and asked them about this. They replied that they've tried it in older models, but they had a few issues, so they went back to propane. However, they also said that they would be willing to build an all diesel model if I wanted one.

Advanced RV appears to also be moving away from propane toward diesel and solar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY7TzGIExl4

[Davydd]

Advanced RV moving away? Actually they have built but one RV with Onan propane generator I believe. They have always from day one had the Espar diesel-fired heat and instant hot water. They have pretty much built lithium ion battery powered RVs of 400ah or more since 2013. They have always had the 12V compressor refrigerator. Solar was on the first RV they built. I don't recall any without solar. The only time they provide propane is for customers desiring propane cooktops, otherwise the electric induction cooktop is their standard. I have no propane in my ARV.

You might want to pay more attention to what Advanced RV is doing than looking across the pond.

[Nomad32]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Advanced RV moving away? Actually they have built but one RV with Onan propane generator I believe. They have always from day one had the Espar diesel-fired heat and instant hot water. They have pretty much built lithium ion battery powered RVs of 400ah or more since 2013. They have always had the 12V compressor refrigerator. Solar was on the first RV they built. I don't recall any without solar. The only time they provide propane is for customers desiring propane cooktops, otherwise the electric induction cooktop is their standard. I have no propane in my ARV.

You might want to pay more attention to what Advanced RV is doing than looking across the pond.

What I meant to say is that Advanced RV is not following the industry standard of propane based rigs.

[Robert Ryan]

Lifting Beds are very common in Australian Class B's and to a much greater extent Class C's. Our practice, is European, with US influences( i. e. Slideouts) and other aspects that does not exist in either

[Robert Ryan]

Originally Posted by Nomad32

All diesel is an intriguing concept for boondocking capabilities. I contacted Safari Condo and asked them about this. They replied that they've tried it in older models, but they had a few issues, so they went back to propane. However, they also said that they would be willing to build an all diesel model if I wanted one.

Advanced RV appears to also be moving away from propane toward diesel and solar.

I posted on the Facebook page the new Ducato Class B, made by Trakka here, that only uses only the one fuel ,Diesel

[Nomad32]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Lifting Beds are very common in Australian Class B's and to a much greater extent Class C's. Our practice, is European, with US influences( i. e. Slideouts) and other aspects that does not exist in either

I wish more NA manufacturers would use the aluminum shutter doors on their rigs. They look good, they're lightweight and they make perfect sense for small enclosed spaces in Class B's because they don't protrude into the aisle when open.

The only Class B model that I'm aware of that is using an aluminum shutter door on the washroom is the Travato.

Travada-91.jpg

[avanti]

Back in 2015 when my wife and I were shopping for our first B-van, our Airstream dealer had both an Interstate and a Westy in inventory and would sell either at exactly the same price. My wife and I were perfectly balanced on the fence. We spent literally an entire afternoon going back and forth between the two rigs, trying to make up our mind, so we looked VERY carefully at both vans.

We ended up for various reasons buying the Interstate, but to this day we think back wistfully at the design, integration and quality of the euro-designed Westy. The Interstate (and ALL other american-made B-vans) felt like a van-conversion. The Westy felt like a PRODUCT. The tall, short Westy was a goofy-looking vehicle and handled like crap, but when it came to interior design and fit-and-finish, there was just no comparison. Compared to European standards, all North American van conversions look home-made and amateurish, and this includes ARV (which I have ALSO looked at very carefully). Don't get me wrong, ARV's quality is for the most part totally first rate. But its construction style (no matter how well-executed) is similar to other NA vans, and for this reason they all "read" the same. A Euro-van feels completely different, plain and simple.

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by avanti

Compared to European standards, all North American van conversions look home-made and amateurish, and this includes ARV (which I have ALSO looked at very carefully). Don't get me wrong, ARV's quality is for the most part totally first rate. But its construction style (no matter how well-executed) is similar to other NA vans, and for this reason they all "read" the same. A Euro-van feels completely different, plain and simple.

I agree completely.

[Nomad32]

Originally Posted by avanti

Back in 2015 when my wife and I were shopping for our first B-van, our Airstream dealer had both an Interstate and a Westy in inventory and would sell either at exactly the same price. My wife and I were perfectly balanced on the fence. We spent literally an entire afternoon going back and forth between the two rigs, trying to make up our mind, so we looked VERY carefully at both vans.

We ended up for various reasons buying the Interstate, but to this day we think back wistfully at the design, integration and quality of the euro-designed Westy. The Interstate (and ALL other american-made B-vans) felt like a van-conversion. The Westy felt like a PRODUCT. The tall, short Westy was a goofy-looking vehicle and handled like crap, but when it came to interior design and fit-and-finish, there was just no comparison. Compared to European standards, all North American van conversions look home-made and amateurish, and this includes ARV (which I have ALSO looked at very carefully). Don't get me wrong, ARV's quality is for the most part totally first rate. But its construction style (no matter how well-executed) is similar to other NA vans, and for this reason they all "read" the same. A Euro-van feels completely different, plain and simple.

Yeah, Advanced RV definitely has premium quality interiors, but their layouts are nothing special and they lack the design aesthetics of the Europeans. I'd expect more with the prices they charge.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Compared to European standards, all North American van conversions look home-made and amateurish, and this includes ARV (which I have ALSO looked at very carefully). Don't get me wrong, ARV's quality is for the most part totally first rate. But its construction style (no matter how well-executed) is similar to other NA vans, and for this reason they all "read" the same. A Euro-van feels completely different, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Jostalli

I agree completely.

I also agree completely. Some of the older models of North American class B's did quite a bit better, I think, in space use and utility. Now they all look the same, with a huge floor to ceiling "wall" down one side, and empty "openness" on the other.

[Nomad32]

Here's a video of the Adria Twin Gt that is obviously designed and marketed for a younger, hipper crowd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHyDGREydXs

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Nomad32

Here's a video of the Adria Twin Gt that is obviously designed and marketed for a younger, hipper crowd:

Nice, but surely they could have squeezed in a few more video screens.

[AK49er]

I really like the 2 armrests they have there, wish more upfitters would do the same.

[Nomad32]

Originally Posted by avanti

Nice, but surely they could have squeezed in a few more video screens.

LOL! One more in the washroom would be good!

[wincrasher]

LOL. Some of these comments are hilarious!

First time I heard someone call the ARV interior amateurish. Remember, with those, the customer chooses the finishes, so it reflects those tastes.

When I saw several in May, I thought the curvature of the cabinetry and the tight gaps between panels to be quite impressive. The only Euro rig I've seen that I thought had a higher interior finish was the Hymer (and not the one offered in NA), and probably I was swayed by all the glossy finishes.

Actually, I think the quality of the NA rigs is on par with the Europeans. The proof is in the track record. You see very few complaints about them falling apart. I just think that the North American manufacturers could be a bit more creative in space utilization. Lots of current customers like the traditional look that is in current models, and are leery of alot of new, expensive, tech.

[avanti]

I wish to repeat: I think that the quality of ARV (with only a few exceptions) is totally awesome. My comments (including the "amateurish" word) was not a critique of quality, but of the overall impression produced by the style of design and construction. The European stuff feels engineered. None of the NA models have that feel--they feel like handicraft. Sometimes very good handicraft, but handicraft none the less.

[Robert Ryan]

Originally Posted by avanti

I wish to repeat: I think that the quality of ARV (with only a few exceptions) is totally awesome. My comments (including the "amateurish" word) was not a critique of quality, but of the overall impression produced by the style of design and construction. The European stuff feels engineered. None of the NA models have that feel--they feel like handicraft. Sometimes very good handicraft, but handicraft none the less.

Adria is from Slovenia, that tiny Country, that was part of Yugoslavia. Of all the European manufacturers, that have tried to get a foothold in Australia, it has the best record for durability as far as it's lightweight Travel Trailers go. They sell in about 10 European Countries. Recently they have tried to " Australianize" their Travel Trailers by adding a tiny Slideout and making another model "dirt road friendly" European Trailers really work on smooth paved roads