Duramax 4cyl to go into Express/Sananna

[bobojay]

Looks like starting next year the 6.6 Duramax 6 spd will be replaced by the new 2.8 4cyl w/8spd in the vans. I wonder if this will also apply to the chassis cab/cutaway versions? The 4cyl surely doesn't have enough power for the 35/4500 chassis that so many public safety units are using now....Hummm...

General Motors Fits 2.8L Duramax to Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana

[avanti]

Originally Posted by bobojay

The 4cyl surely doesn't have enough power for the 35/4500 chassis that so many public safety units are using now....Hummm...

Don't be so sure. The Sprinter 4cyl/7-speed drivetrain is a dream.

[bobojay]

Good point...

[Bruceper]

in the Colorado, the engine produces 181 hp and 369 lb-ft, down significantly from the 6.6’s 260 hp and 525 lb-ft.

That's not too shabby to be honest. With eight gears in the automatic this will feel like a lot more due to the gear ratios.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Bruceper

That's not too shabby to be honest. With eight gears in the automatic this will feel like a lot more due to the gear ratios.

That will be plenty of power. The Sprinter 4Cyl is only 2.1L only has 265 lb-ft of torque and a 7-speed transmission. This is power statement on the MB web site:

4-Cylinder BlueTEC Turbocharged Diesel Engine

Effortlessly combining the benefits of two-stage turbocharged power, 265 lb-ft of torque, diesel fuel economy and durability in one compact package, the impressive 4-cylinder powertrain with 7-speed 7G-TRONIC transmission offers you up to 18%2 greater fuel efficiency, standard on all Sprinter Van models.

[Boxster1971]

So rather than bring in their Euro van line GM is going to repower the existing vans with small diesel to compete better with the Sprinter, Promaster and Transit vans

[booster]

Without seeing the torque curves for the MB diesel and the Duramax, it is really not possible to tell how they will compare. It the torque curve of one or the other is higher in rpm it will get you up a mountain a lot faster. If running at max torque and 1800rpm vs the same torque at 3600rpm, the 3600 will get you up the same hill nearly twice as fast (there is a wind resistance correction needed do to the added speed). A single point on a torque curve makes it tough to know.

As they say, torque tells you if it will move, horsepower says how fast the torque will move it, and rpm gives the horsepower to torque.

[bobojay]

Here's the 2016 specs in the Colorado/Canyon w/6spd
2.8L Duramax Specs | Colorado & Canyon Diesels

[wincrasher]

It's just an MPG play, and a good one at that. Not for towing. In the Colorado/Canyon, the tow rating only increased 600 lbs over the V6 gas engine.

The old engine must have been de-tuned for the van application. This same engine in my Silverado is 425 horsepower and 795 ft lbs of torque - it's a beast!

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

It's just an MPG play, and a good one at that. Not for towing. In the Colorado/Canyon, the tow rating only increased 600 lbs over the V6 gas engine.

The old engine must have been de-tuned for the van application. This same engine in my Silverado is 425 horsepower and 795 ft lbs of torque - it's a beast!

Your assumption is correct. Detuned, less power with the 6.6 in the van application. Partly because the van chassis doesn't have the Allison 1000 in it like the pickups do, (won't fit). It's got a HD Turbo Hydramatic 6L90, I believe is the model number. The vans don't need all that power anyway like the pickups

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by booster

Without seeing the torque curves for the MB diesel and the Duramax, it is really not possible to tell how they will compare. It the torque curve of one or the other is higher in rpm it will get you up a mountain a lot faster. If running at max torque and 1800rpm vs the same torque at 3600rpm, the 3600 will get you up the same hill nearly twice as fast (there is a wind resistance correction needed do to the added speed). A single point on a torque curve makes it tough to know.

As they say, torque tells you if it will move, horsepower says how fast the torque will move it, and rpm gives the horsepower to torque.

Good point booster. It took a little looking to find the 2.8L Duramax torque curve. The Sprinter 2.1L was easy because it's in the online brochure. As you can see in the attached torque curves the Sprinter torque is rather flat compared to the Duramax torque peak curve.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Good point booster. It took a little looking to find the 2.8L Duramax torque curve. The Sprinter 2.1L was easy because it's in the online brochure. As you can see in the attached torque curves the Sprinter torque is rather flat compared to the Duramax torque peak curve.

Good find, Boxster. Very interesting curves, also. The extra 33% of displacement definitely shows up as a performance advantage for the Duramax, as even with peaky torque curve, it is still higher than the MB at 3500rpm.

The flat torque curve of the MB would not benefit nearly as much from the extra gears as the narrower max torque band of the Duramax, but even with the same tranny and gears, the Duramax would outperform the MB up to 3500rpm.

We have a 6.0 Chevy 190 Roadtrek that has similar torque at 360ft-lbs, but it will carry that torque to a much higher rpm than the Duramax and gets much higher hp because of it at 360hp. It moves the 9600# just fine, with just the 4 speed auto.

Looks like the Duramax would be a bit of a step down in power, but the 8 speed will probably get a lot of it back, at least in feel.

I don't think it will be as bad as it first appeared, if it performs like the numbers would indicate. Should be faster up hills than a Sprinter 3500, and even more faster off the line.

[Robert Ryan]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Good point booster. It took a little looking to find the 2.8L Duramax torque curve. The Sprinter 2.1L was easy because it's in the online brochure. As you can see in the attached torque curves the Sprinter torque is rather flat compared to the Duramax torque peak curve.

It is interesting that the US Vans are becoming more like the European ones. VM Motori 2.8 is not the most refined of diesels running around, will it be in the Cab Chassis model?

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

It is interesting that the US Vans are becoming more like the European ones. VM Motori 2.8 is not the most refined of diesels running around, will it be in the Cab Chassis model?

This is not the VM engine. It's manufactured in Germany and is a brand new design.....

[Robert Ryan]

Originally Posted by bobojay

This is not the VM engine. It's manufactured in Germany and is a brand new design.....

You will find it is exactly the same engine as used in the Global Colorado

Duramax
Duramax may refer to:

Duramax V8 engine, a turbocharged V-8 Diesel engine designed and built by General Motors
Isuzu 6H Engine, a 6-cylinder commercial Diesel engine, re-branded "Duramax" for GM trucks
VM Motori A 428 DOHC, a 4-cylinder engine used in Chevrolet Colorado/Chevrolet S10/Holden Colorado/GMC Canyon.
DuraMax Building Products, a supplier of vinyl fencing, sheds, etc.
Duramax is also the name of an easel sold by Quartet

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

You will find it is exactly the same engine as used in the Global Colorado

You are correct about the applications. I stated made in Germany. That was wrong. Designed and engineered in Europe & USA, manufactured in Rayong, Thailand for the world.....It's a second generation design

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by booster

Good find, Boxster. Very interesting curves, also. The extra 33% of displacement definitely shows up as a performance advantage for the Duramax, as even with peaky torque curve, it is still higher than the MB at 3500rpm.... .... I don't think it will be as bad as it first appeared, if it performs like the numbers would indicate. Should be faster up hills than a Sprinter 3500, and even more faster off the line.

Actually it's probably fair to compare the performance of the 2.8L Duramax to the Sprinter V-6 at 2.987L. Here is the torque and HP curve of the Sprinter V-6.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Actually it's probably fair to compare the performance of the 2.8L Duramax to the Sprinter V-6 at 2.987L. Here is the torque and HP curve of the Sprinter V-6.

I agree, and in that case I would take the V6 with the flatter curve, plus good numbers.

[mlts22]

I'd go for the Sprinter V6, because it has been out for almost a decade and most of the kinks are worked out. I just don't trust new engine designs until they earn their bones on the roads for a few years.

[sheral]

Originally Posted by mlts22

I'd go for the Sprinter V6, because it has been out for almost a decade and most of the kinks are worked out. I just don't trust new engine designs until they earn their bones on the roads for a few years.

I totally agree, however, people who love their Chevys will take the leap of faith, (and it will likely turn out to be a great engine)...