Ducato/ProMaster news...

[mlts22]

Looks like the diesel model of the ProMaster won't be shipping until next year. However, gassers are orderable from dealers as of now.

As for upfits, I have been hearing Travatos should be hitting dealer lots late August/early September.

[mlts22]

Quick update... vans have hit production in the Mexican plant.

Another thing -- looks like there are rumors from multiple sources (lost link, it is on Google) that GM may be going to use Peugeot Boxers, which are essentially Fiat Ducatos with a rebadge. We may end up with two sources of these vans, if this is true.

Link:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#axzz2Z9HSyWkn

The main reason why I'm keeping an eye on this so closely is that most European class C motorhomes are on the Ducato chassis. In fact, there is even a website, ducatocamper.com just for these. I think that these vans/chassis models will be a complete game-changer here in the US.

[markopolo]

Here's a GM / Peugeot-Citroën commercial vans article http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/10/g...ot-vans-in-us/

Renault makes a panel van coincidentally named "Master" http://www.renault.co.uk/vans/model/...n/product.aspx



Why not bring that one over too?

[markopolo]

I moved all the photos and posts discussing the new Ram ProMaster based Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva to a new topic in the B+ Forum.

Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva on Ram ProMaster link:
http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=33&t=2677

It is a Class C but small enough that it will be of interest to anyone looking for a small motorhome.

[stanw909]

I don 't know about the gas version. I think I would feel like a sucker later on if I realized I could have gotten better mpg and torque for $3500 more if I would have waited.

[Mike]

Agreed. I think I'd like to at least see some specifications to compare the gas and diesel engines.
For me, it's all about the torque, for getting around in the places we like to go. Someone who wants a light to medium duty utility van for commercial use might be able to get away with a gas version, depending on where and for what it will be hauling.
What are the odds they produce one with a turbocharged 4 cylinder diesel to keep the numbers close and the decision difficult? Sort of a hindsight attempt to get people to buy either? A diesel would have to have a little more power, or people might choose the gas engine on lower fuel prices alone.

[stanw909]

They already show deisel option of $3550 on the build sheet pdf file. Go to Sportsmobile.com. The question is when will the U.S. get them.

[Mike]

From SMB website, Promaster drive train option specs

"Gas engine is standard. 3.6L V6, 260 HP at 6,400 RPM. Torque 258 lb/ft at 4,175 RPM. Transmission 6-speed automatic.

Diesel Engine is optional. 3.0L Turbo, 174 HP at 3,600 RPM. Torque 295 lb/ft at 1,400 RPM. Torque 295 lb/ft at 1,420 RPM. Transmission 6-speed manual."

37 more ft/lbs of torque, at almost 1/3 the RPMs (high engine idle speed?), appears to be the difference. Makes it a much easier decision if the converted RV is heavy. They even mentioned the diesel engine torque twice for effect, but that could be a website typo.....
Also, it looks like the diesel comes with a 220 amp alternator. Optional on the gasser.

Compare to MB Sprinter engine for the higher output V6 models
218 CDI
318 CDI
418 CDI
518 CDI OM 642 V6 24v DOHC 2,987 cc (182.3 cu in) 184 PS (135 kW; 181 hp) 400 N·m (295 lbf·ft)
Pretty comparable?
Does Sportsmobile mark up the chassis price on their "Pricing Your Sporstmobile" price sheets? Assuming they acquire the base unit for your conversion? I don't know the nuts and bolts of a Sportsmobile build.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mike

From SMB website, Promaster drive train option specs

"Gas engine is standard. 3.6L V6, 260 HP at 6,400 RPM. Torque 258 lb/ft at 4,175 RPM. Transmission 6-speed automatic.

Diesel Engine is optional. 3.0L Turbo, 174 HP at 3,600 RPM. Torque 295 lb/ft at 1,400 RPM. Torque 295 lb/ft at 1,420 RPM. Transmission 6-speed manual."

37 more ft/lbs of torque, at almost 1/3 the RPMs (high engine idle speed?), appears to be the difference. Makes it a much easier decision if the converted RV is heavy. They even mentioned the diesel engine torque twice for effect, but that could be a website typo.....
Also, it looks like the diesel comes with a 220 amp alternator. Optional on the gasser.

Compare to MB Sprinter engine for the higher output V6 models
218 CDI
318 CDI
418 CDI
518 CDI OM 642 V6 24v DOHC 2,987 cc (182.3 cu in) 184 PS (135 kW; 181 hp) 400 N·m (295 lbf·ft)
Pretty comparable?
Does Sportsmobile mark up the chassis price on their "Pricing Your Sporstmobile" price sheets? Assuming they acquire the base unit for your conversion? I don't know the nuts and bolts of a Sportsmobile build.

I know the talk of gas vs diesel torque, and how they actually move a van can get pretty "opinionated", but there are some basic laws of physics that apply and can't be ignored. The biggest issue is the rpm you get the torque. In the above example, the diesel gets its torque at 1400 rpm, while the gas engine gets it at 4175 rpm, about 3 times as high. For the van to be going the same speed in both cases, the gas engine would need to geared down to 1/3 that of the diesel. Gearing it down by 1/3 multiplies the torque by 3 times, so at the same speed and max torque, the gasser would be making the equivalent of 774 ft-# of torque. That is 2.6 times the amount of the diesel. This exercise is why I wish the always would measure torque at the wheels instead of the flywheel and at a specific speed of the wheels. The more speeds that are available, the better, for diesels.

Theory aside, the diesels do pull well, both in reality and perception. They operate at a reduced rpm range compared to gas, so they can be at torque peak without as much noticeable effort as a gas engine screaming at 5000 rpm. Most gas engine setups are also not setup to be able to run at peak torque or hp for long periods without overheating or other issues.

All I am saying is be sure to look at all the specs and torque and hp curves before making assumptions on how well and engine will move a b. Don't believe all you hear, or the age old perceptions and theories, without checking them out.

My favorite example is when I looked at the curves for the 2007 models when we got our Chevy. The I5 Mercedes owners were bragging about how much torque they had, at, I think about 1800 rpm, but the 6.0 Chevy had higher torque at about 4000rpm, which when geared down dwarfed the I5 numbers. Beyond that, the 6.0 had more torque at the max torque rpm of the I5, 1800rpm, than the I5 had when you looked at both full torque curves!

By the way, I would love to have quiet, non stinky, diesel like they are getting into now. With modern controls on them, and the better efficiency, they may well push much of the gasser market aside.

[gerrym51]

in north amereica most people want gas-me icluded

[mlts22]

I want gas for the simplicity of things. Plus, here in Texas, with the 100+ temperatures as highs, generator run time when not on hookups is important. So, having the ability to share the gas tank with the genny is a nice thing. You can with diesels, but only SMB offers this as an option for "B"s, and it means having the generator hang low in a fairly vulnerable spot.