Drink the Kool-Aid, or Else!

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I think forums and blogs are 100 times better than Facebook for sharing detailed information. Forums and blogs are categorized, you can place photos or attachments inline in relevant places etc. and they're easy to search through later - even years later.

Posts on Facebook get buried (and lost) too quickly - it's a shame that all that effort is effectively wasted as a resource for information.

Marko,

You do an outstanding job with bringing up detailed information in this forum but you do so because the average person doesn't really know how to search. I can search my Pursuing Pork Tenderloin Sandwich group on Facebook and dredge up old threads and posts very easy with the search mechanism. In a group you can share detailed information more concisely with the Files section in a group. Here is an example:

Pork Tenderloin Tutorial

Facebook can be frustrating, but it has one thing no independent forum has - people and lots and lots of people. Pursuing Pork Tenderloin Sandwiches is a group I created for fun. There is absolutely no other venue that could have attracted 2,500 people for that sandwich. There are easily a dozen photos of sandwiches posted every day.

Roadtreking:The Group is probably getting more postings by more people than all of RV.net's forums now. Independent forums like this one are a dying breed. Also, what you don't see on Facebook are the many secret groups. You have Public groups where you can read messages but not post without joining. You have Closed groups where you can search them, read their purpose, see who the members are but not read the messages and you have Secret groups not searchable and you can only join if invited by members. Kind of like a restricted area here only you don't even know that. One example: Families use Secret groups to organize things like family reunions or events.

I could easily abandon everything but Facebook Groups because when I travel I generally only use the extremely easy to use iPhone Facebook Groups app with any frequency which is different than the Facebook app itself.

In some ways it is really all in what you get used to. My wife can't handle independent forums since there are so many ways the are set up and are so different. Some are good and some are simply atrocious. RV.net is an example of a primitive system, IMO. Another dying one I have been a member of for over a dozen years is Roadfood.com and I get extremely frustrated using their system.

[booster]

I have to agree with Marko, the forums are a much better method of giving, or learning information. The Yahoo Roadtrek group is more Facebookish, and it also is very hard to use, scattered and hard to follow.

It is my understanding that Facebook started out as a social networking site, and that is what is does well. It is conversational in form and function like a social situation. As has been said by others, it is great for posting pictures of your dog, or to tell everyone how many Roadtreks did, or didn't, wave back at you. It is very poor for having a valid back and forth "learning" discussion between multiple folks, with all the information in the discussion and not linked to a bunch of other sites and utube.

The hypersocial social types love Facebook because that is where it is focused. It is much less useful for folks that are looking more for information, than chatter. The markedly less social of us find Facebook like being in the middle of party that we didn't want to go to, listening to folks chatter away about not much of anything.

[eric1514]

Can I "like" that post?

[Davydd]

The secret of any discussion forum including this one is sociability. That's what brings people in. The content will follow. I learned long ago a discussion forum is a live interactive play. There are "actors" (posters) and "audience" (often called in a somewhat derogatory term as lurkers). They are really like talk show radio listeners. The actors will draw people out. There are a much greater number of lurkers than actors. I would be the first to admit I would be one to say something just to draw people in. Once a longtime lurker becomes a first time poster they often become hooked and join the cast. Wincrasher is doing a bang up job with the Class B Camper Van group on Facebook drawing people in. Roadtreking:The Group is employing a tactic of rubbing shoulders with "celebrity." That's a known and workable ploy. Yes, Hammill, Campskunk, Wendland and Seiner are rub shoulder celebrities to most of those Roadtrek owners. It makes them feel good about their vans.

Booster and Marko have been your mainstay "celebrities" in this Class B Forum play. Others have come and gone. RV.net Class B Forum doesn't seem to have that draw right now.

Joke about the Like button on Facebook. That tactic identifies the lurkers. It is also an algorithm that tracks your interest. Inadvertently you create what you see on Facebook in what you like, what groups your subscribe to, who you comment to, who you follow and who you choose as friends. At the same time you have a lot of control in what you see. You can ignore people or block people as Campskunk evidently has. Even with your friends you can ignore their comments from showing in your news feed. I have blocked seeing every game people play on Facebook which seems to be a prime use of Facebook by some of my friends. You can edit who can see anything about you or what you post.

There is one major difference in these private boards and Facebook, at least the half dozen or so private boards I visit, and that is gender. Facebook has a lot more female participants. Is that sociability?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

There is one major difference in these private boards and Facebook, at least the half dozen or so private boards I visit, and that is gender. Facebook has a lot more female participants. Is that sociability?

I would say so, based on the number of females I see clutching their phones constantly, even while doing other things like hiking, bike riding, driving, shopping, etc. No so many of the males doing it.

[booster]

Although I don't know how it all works, it does seem that Facebook collects, and sells, everything they can about you. I had signed up, and pretty soon every website I was on was getting "you might be interested in" popups and links all over them. Cancelled, and it went away for the most part.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

I would say so, based on the number of females I see clutching their phones constantly, even while doing other things like hiking, bike riding, driving, shopping, etc. No so many of the males doing it.

I don't know if my wife agrees with that.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

Although I don't know how it all works, it does seem that Facebook collects, and sells, everything they can about you. I had signed up, and pretty soon every website I was on was getting "you might be interested in" popups and links all over them. Cancelled, and it went away for the most part.

Facebook is just one player. All social services have deals including this board. The advertising headline on this topic is specifically aimed at you. We don't all see the same. It is Google that controls most of the advertising on the Internet through its search engine and similar services as Facebook. Amazon.com is a major player as well. If you want free Internet and not pay gates everywhere this is what you have to deal with. It will probably soon be both. Try reading many news sites now. Not only will you get socked with targeted advertising like the intro to videos but you have to pay for content as well after a complimentary number of views.

[gerrym51]

i am addicted to Bubble Safari on facebook!

i am at level 1212. what can i say

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Facebook is just one player. All social services have deals including this board. The advertising headline on this topic is specifically aimed at you. We don't all see the same. It is Google that controls most of the advertising on the Internet through its search engine and similar services as Facebook. Amazon.com is a major player as well. If you want free Internet and not pay gates everywhere this is what you have to deal with. It will probably soon be both. Try reading many news sites now. Not only will you get socked with targeted advertising like the intro to videos but you have to pay for content as well after a complimentary number of views.

I don't have an issue with the targeted advertising, but the Facebook stuff was constantly putting popup type stuff opening over what I was looking at, so it was extremely irritating.

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I don't know if my wife agrees with that.

This is not an exaggeration! I've seen it....

[Davydd]

I don't have any popup advertising that doesn't belong to the hosting website. I'm using Safari on a Mac, iPad or iPhone. I don't get any popup advertising on Facebook. Must be a setting somewhere to control it.

Hmm, I just checked the ad banner on this page rolling the cursor over it. I got a message. "Safari power saver. Click to start Flash plug-in." Flash is the %&*# culprit I bet. Adobe Flash is an evil tool by advertisers and a memory eater. The late Steve Jobs hated it.

[booster]

The blockers I am running now with Pale Moon browser even block almost all of the Facebook, Twitter, etc icons that are becoming a fixture, and all over, lots of websites. Roll over them and who knows what you will get.

With those blockers, I don't seem to have to block (start with permission) flash anymore. I might also be better off than I was with the Facebook issues in the past.

[avanti]

Marko, Mumkin & Booster: That's exactly right. Facebook is a medium for ephemera and chit-chat. It is the World-Wide Watercooler. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't interest me at all. Fora like this one, certain Yahoo! groups, and Sprinter-source are important because, as Marco suggests, they are a medium for the accumulation of reasonably browsable (or at least searchable) information and wisdom. This is very different and in the long run much more important than Facebook. When a Facebook group goes away, it is barely noticed. When a successful Forum-style group is lost (as, for example, happened a few years ago to a highly-popular Toyota Sienna group that I belonged to), it is a minor tragedy. I don't think that the forum format is waning at all. A successful list increasingly has financial value, and this has led to consolidation--with better-run lists eating the lunch of less successful ones. But, the good ones are prospering, which is a good thing.

I totally disagree that "people and lots and lots of people" should be a goal. Google meets that need just fine. It is obvious that the depth of a discussion is inversely proportional to the number of participants. The great virtue of the forum format is that it tends to convene a relatively small number of active participants who have expertise and/or commitment to a topic. The large flat structure that is Facebook's bread and butter is great for for the broad, shallow interactions that have prove so profitable to advertisers. I repeat: nothing wrong with that. But at the end of the day, formats that lead to an accumulating body of self-correcting, referencable information is much more significant, and will not go away.

[Davydd]

Nothing on the Internet is forever. As a frequent poster here with over 2,500 messages and hundreds of photos embedded in posts, that database could be wrecked or rendered senseless anytime if I were to for any reason my Photobucket account closed out. Every referenced link is tenuous. On the other hand, I still have several dead friends on Facebook whose data lives on and will live on as long as Facebook is an entity. The only way that could change is for an owner of an account to have had the foresight to make provisions. No one does. I've lived through Usenet, CompuServe, Genie, Applelink, AOL, Yahoo Groups, blogs and several others I have forgotten to know nothing is forever. Millions of blogs went kaput overnight when the world's largest valuation company, Apple, decided to no longer support its web app and server. I've had two long running blogs go poof! Google routinely drops accumulated data. I don't know what contingency MarkoPolo had before this forum was sold off. Independent forums are losing and I would have to believe a small company is more vulnerable if they started losing money. I've lived through the demise of several independent forums where I had been an active member.

As for a database, it doesn't keep new people coming on and asking the same questions over and over. There is only a core number that can remember and mostly that is Marko.

Facebook is more entrepreneur for members as anyone can establish a group. Participation wise Roadtreking:The Group has far more active members, more messages, more photos, and valuable Roadtrek information than here. And to think, the creator of that group initially started on here asking rookie questions everyone dutifully answered and he took those answers as his own to start his blog. One frequent member here just posted valuable Zion information and evaluation there that hasn't shown up here.

I'm knowledgable enough not to put my eggs all in one basket or believe I can control what I don't own and have over 31 years experience in the forum business as an active user and as an insider in the business. I'm not a real fan of Facebook but it is clearly the most successful and where it is at today. Could it become a MySpace? Who knows. It bested Google+. It bested Yahoo Groups. It is besting most independent message board forums. I wouldn't be so smug especially with something you have no control over. I recommend you read the book, Who Moved My Cheese because it will be moved.

[mumkin]

I've never had a pop-up ad on Facebook. There are ads along the side that I ignore successfully.

I had been increasingly upset with Flash and all its problems with crashing browsers regularly. I use Firefox and a couple weeks ago they blocked them totally... it was a wonderful two days... and when they allowed it again, I was directed to a plug-in that now blocks all Flash unless I allow it... and it is only allowed for the video I watch on that particular site that time.

Surfing the net has become pleasant again and not a browser crash since I installed it. (I do tend to open 20 tabs at a time very often)

[avanti]

Not to get TOO far off topic, but:

Originally Posted by Davydd

Nothing on the Internet is forever.

This statement isn't quite true. Every movie and music recording ever made is (literally) forever on the Internet. Why? Because of peer-to-peer networking and massive replication--much to the chagrin of the RIAA. You could no more get rid of the last Internet copy of "Hey, Jude" than you could get rid of the last paper copy of "Tom Sawyer". New P2P technologies like BittorrentSync are laying the foundation for a new generation of Forum-like services that will be literally immortal. Not quite ready for prime-time yet, but they are very close. This will be the ultimate solution to the problems you cite. Facebook is a flash in the pan. Just watch.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by mumkin

I was directed to a plug-in that now blocks all Flash unless I allow it

Yes, indeed. I have been using such a plug-in in Safari for a couple of years now. Anyone who isn't doesn't know what they are missing.

[booster]

Participation wise Roadtreking:The Group has far more active members, more messages, more photos, and valuable Roadtrek information than here. And to think, the creator of that group initially started on here asking rookie questions everyone dutifully answered and he took those answers as his own to start his blog. One frequent member here just posted valuable Zion information and evaluation there that hasn't shown up here.

More photos, yep, more posts, yep, more members, yep. More information---NOT EVEN CLOSE--unless you count Hammil ranting about people who question Roadtrek, or count pics of random things and animals as information.

If you want foo-foo social stuff go to the Roadtreking site--if you want Roadtrek propaganda go to the Roadtreking site. If you want (mostly) unbiased, actually tested, non-sales influenced, information, this is the place to be, as well as some other sites.

Having 10K+, or more, posts means very little if 9,990 of them don't say anything, same with pix.

[avanti]

Booster: Just so.