Dometic fridge quit cooling

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GallenH

Well, for starters, many of us don't experience the problems that you were having with your unit, including, as I recall, burnt wiring. Altitude and leveling haven't been issues as many in the past have said in their comments. LP fridges are subject to ambient outside temps which may be their greatest issue. But that isn't the OP's complaint. His is too cold at times and shutting off completely at others. Those suggest that it is not functioning as designed. Rather, some component is failing.

In addition, a change to comp fridge requires for most alterations in the electrical system. Those can be costly and for many it's not a question of IF you can afford it but if you can justify it based on how you use your RV and the frequency of use.

It's still a 12 volt system, no change required.
Let me ask you this, how much can you afford if your entire RV burns up or worse catches fire while you are sleeping in it.

What price do you put on your personal safety??

I know it's extremely expensive, but, after all the FAILED camping trips with losing all my food and the aggravation of dealing with this, it was either fix the damn thing or sell the RV and stay home!!!!!

I don't have any desire to go out and be frustrated with nonsense like that.... I can stay home and relax or just go to a hotel... Did I make this perfectly clear enough for you?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Again, when I looked at a possible replacement for my old Dometic propane refrigerator.... they don't make my model.. ONLY manufacturer larger ones. I don't know what I would have done if I had not sourced the Nova Kool...

Your 2351 is only a 3 cubic foot model...prey much the same size as my unit.... I was NOT going to have any retrofitting with my cabinets in the RV... I don't think you want that either....

My Nova Kool is a 3.5 cubic foot refrigerator/freezer.. only 1/2 cubic feet of freezer... it's small, but only takes 2.4 watts per hour.... very low power requirements.

Good luck...

By the way, the literature at Dometic says that it is a 2 way, gas and electric... you do need a 12 volt connection, but, it doesn't work on 12 volt battery power by itself..the 12 volt is for the controls on the panel.... just wanted to let you know...

The R3800 is a battery/electric compressor refrigerator...no propane gas. Ultra quiet. No leveling, no altitude issues, will work anywhere in any temperature.

C'mon, if you are going to make a technical post to justify a compressor frig at least get the technical terms correct. What exactly is 2.4 watts per hour? Even if you assume you messed up the units it doesn't make sense. A 3cf compressor frig with a good install is going to use in the range of 20-40 AMP HOURS of battery capacity at 12v in 24 hours. That is what folks need to know.



Also be aware that some users don't want to have to put solar on, or more batteries, and have never had issues with a propane frig before the failure.


I am a huge proponent of compressor frigs, but they aren't for everyone's desires.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

4.4 Gas operation (Liquid gas)

The refrigerator must be operated using
liquid gas (propane, butane) (no natural
gas or town gas).
When using LPG gas, please consider that
the burner needs cleaning at shorter inter-
vals due to the gas combustion method (2
- 3 times per year recommended.
In Europe, gas operation is permitted while
travelling only on the condition that the gas
system of the vehicle is equipped with a
hose rupture protection. The national regu-
lations of the respective country must be
observed.
For physical reasons, gas ignition faults
could occur starting from an altitude above
sea level of approx. 3280 ft. / 1000 m (No
malfunction!)

Well this explains alot about the discrepancy that we're having in this and other previous discussions. If your fridge cycles by igniting then turning off when temp is achieved and then re-igniting when temp drops, then going thru the cycle again (common in newer, circuit board controlled fridges), it has to constantly relight which "could" be a problem at high altitudes.

The type of fridge that I, the OP and others have is older. It cycles by going from high flame to low flame or pilot mode. IOW, once lit, it remains lit and doesn't have to re-ignite.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

That was it for me, and when I saw the electrical wires that all burned up right next to the active propane flame...I was extremely lucky to have dodged that bullet... good riddance. Someone pointed out to me that you can have an electrical fire with an all electric model, but, I certainly don't want to have an electric fire and a live propane flame burning together... that's a really bad combination..

On average there are approximately 4000 RV fires per year. It is reported that the number two cause of a fire is the RV refrigerator. The number one cause of fire is reported to be within the RV engine compartment, often in the electrical system.

From the internet,

https://www.arprv.com/rv-fires.php

Again, it is not just poor performance. It's safety.....

If you need more battery power, go solar....it will power an ultra efficient RV refrigerator....

A few remarks regarding the above.

The number one cause is electrical but no where is it confined to the engine compartment as claimed. It is simply listed as "12-volt wiring" which certainly applies to both the engine compartment AND the coach wiring. This is obviously born out by your own experience where you found burned wiring. Thus the irony is that if one were really going by a safety concern, the number one issue that should be addressed would be to eliminate the electrical within the RV.

The number two cause is the propane system and includes the fridge. It also relates to the much debated issue of turning off your propane when driving. And it also includes other LP appliances such as the stove,furnace and water heater. Leaks can occur with those appliances as well. And if I remember correctly, you retained all of those propane devices.

It might also be mentioned that the link that you provided is a commercial website that sells cooling fans for LP fridges. They point to the overheating of the boiler which could cause rupture. The site is not advocating replacing your LP fridge, rather keeping it and adding their fans.

With ANY RV it remains a responsibility of the owner to inspect and make sure that all systems....propane and electrical....are functioning properly

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GallenH

Well this explains alot about the discrepancy that we're having in this and other previous discussions. If your fridge cycles by igniting then turning off when temp is achieved and then re-igniting when temp drops, then going thru the cycle again (common in newer, circuit board controlled fridges), it has to constantly relight which "could" be a problem at high altitudes.

The type of fridge that I, the OP and others have is older. It cycles by going from high flame to low flame or pilot mode. IOW, once lit, it remains lit and doesn't have to re-ignite.

I understand that you might have an older refrigerator.. and the 8501 had the 3,280 foot limit, but newer ones are at 5,500 feet....

Question, when you wrote,

IOW, once lit, it remains lit and doesn't have to re-ignite.[/QUO

What are you saying??? That it stayed lit continuously??

I'm asking because in my particular case, it tried to relight and could never do that.... hence, had to run around find ice chests and ice..... spent my entire time fighting fires.....

Definitely not fun, what a pain...

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

I understand that you might have an older refrigerator.. and the 8501 had the 3,280 foot limit, but newer ones are at 5,500 feet....

Question, when you wrote,

IOW, once lit, it remains lit and doesn't have to re-ignite.[/QUO

What are you saying??? That it stayed lit continuously??

I'm asking because in my particular case, it tried to relight and could never do that.... hence, had to run around find ice chests and ice..... spent my entire time fighting fires.....

Definitely not fun, what a pain...

Many users have stated using there propane frigs at higher elevations. We went to compressor to other reasons than that, but before changing we used ours at 6K ft without any issue compared to lower. The specs are CYA, I think, for the manufacturers as real world would indicate much better performance at altitude.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Question, when you wrote,

IOW, once lit, it remains lit and doesn't have to re-ignite.[/QUO

What are you saying??? That it stayed lit continuously??

Yes. Here's a quote from Dometic service manual on the NEWER ones:

"The last feature that we need to discuss is the operation of the thermostat on the LP gas mode. Unlike the manually controlled models, A.E.S. refrigerators do not have a high and low flame to regulate the interior cabinet temperatures. The high flame, that is present after the lighting sequence, will shut off completely when the thermostat reaches the preset temperature. The automatic controls will then relight the burner when the thermostat calls for cooling. This allows the refrigerator to utilize the LP gas mode in a much more efficient manner, very similar to the pilot-less gas stoves that are now becoming quite popular."

So note from this description the older "manually controlled models" refers to the ones like mine. They are lit at the start via a piezo ignitor and then remain lit. The thermostat controls a valve that constricts the gas flow into the "low flame" or pilot mode once cabinet temp is reached. Then opens it when cabinet temp rises.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

C'mon, if you are going to make a technical post to justify a compressor frig at least get the technical terms correct. What exactly is 2.4 watts per hour? Even if you assume you messed up the units it doesn't make sense. A 3cf compressor frig with a good install is going to use in the range of 20-40 AMP HOURS of battery capacity at 12v in 24 hours. That is what folks need to know.

Also be aware that some users don't want to have to put solar on, or more batteries, and have never had issues with a propane frig before the failure.


I am a huge proponent of compressor frigs, but they aren't for everyone's desires.

Booster, I have to say that I'm grateful to you for informing me of the Victron BMV battery monitoring system...I actually have that installed.... and I like it...

As per the 2.2 watts per hour for the R3800 Nova Kool refrigerator.. that's exactly what it draws....as specified.... that is 52.8 watts in 24 hours....that is remarkably low...

No way is it anywhere close to what you are saying here....so, I would be interested in knowing how you figured 20 to 40 Amps....

Again, maybe you were speaking generally?? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this....

https://www.suremarineservice.com/Galley/Single-Door-Refrigerators-Over-25/R3800ACDC.html

R3800ACDC. Capacity: 3.5 Cu Ft. 100 Liter. Freezer Volume: 0.45 Cu Ft. / 12.7 Liter. Voltage DC: 12-24 VDC. Amperage @ 12 VDC: 2.2/1.1 Amps Running*.

Happy Thanksgiving...... -- Mark

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Ok, it's actually Amps.... but, I have a 224 amp deep cycle battery bank and am getting 30 amps of solar per day... So, my net loss is about 20 amps... assuming it's going 24/7 which it is not doing....

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Ok, it's actually Amps.... but, I have a 224 amp deep cycle battery bank and am getting 30 amps of solar per day... So, my net loss is about 20 amps... assuming it's going 24/7 which it is not doing....

No, it is actually amp hours per hour. You are (maybe) getting 30 amp hours per day out of your solar. You are going by the running spec on the frig in test, not real world, unless you have tested what it actually takes. Have you done that??

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by booster

No, it is actually amp hours per hour. You are (maybe) getting 30 amp hours per day out of your solar. You are going by the running spec on the frig in test, not real world, unless you have tested what it actually takes. Have you done that??

This is an ultra low energy compressor refrigerator.... that's why I purchased it..... only problem was it was VERY EXPENSIVE for what it was.... No question about that.

And, the Victron BMV 712 battery monitoring system with the temperature sensor is remarkably good...

Here's a couple of screenshots of the state of charge...

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

This is an ultra low energy compressor refrigerator.... that's why I purchased it..... only problem was it was VERY EXPENSIVE for what it was.... No question about that.

And, the Victron BMV 712 battery monitoring system with the temperature sensor is remarkably good...

Here's a couple of screenshots of the state of charge...

It really doesn't matter what it cost or how great the monitor or solar controller are. Have you ever tested and documented how much energy (ah per day) that you frig uses and your solar generates? That isn't a difficult question, IMO.

[vwmaniaman]

I replaced my Dometic 2351 with a newer dometic 2353. It was a challenge in my 1999 LTV Freedom wide body, but with a little re-engineering it can be done. Basically the new fridge needs the elevate approx 2 inches. This allows for clearance of the wheel well in the coach. The new fridge works very well and now the controls are automatic and at the top. No more crawling on the floor to light it or to see what power it has been set to run at. when you disconnected the AC power to it, did it stop popping you GFI?

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by vwmaniaman

I replaced my Dometic 2351 with a newer dometic 2353. It was a challenge in my 1999 LTV Freedom wide body, but with a little re-engineering it can be done. Basically the new fridge needs the elevate approx 2 inches. This allows for clearance of the wheel well in the coach. The new fridge works very well and now the controls are automatic and at the top. No more crawling on the floor to light it or to see what power it has been set to run at. when you disconnected the AC power to it, did it stop popping you GFI?

Don't the 51 and the 53 have the same case size?

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by booster

It really doesn't matter what it cost or how great the monitor or solar controller are. Have you ever tested and documented how much energy (ah per day) that you frig uses and your solar generates? That isn't a difficult question, IMO.

Interesting question and I've wondered about procedure. Here's what I "think" I'd do. Please chime in.

1. Charge battery
2. Disconnect shore and turn off battery disconnect.
3. Let sit for 24hrs. Not sure if this is necessary.
4. Turn on battery disconnect.
5. Reset Victron 700
6. Come back in 24hrs and note the AH exhausted on the Victron.

With no appliances connected, I think this would only give me the AH draw from the propane and CO detectors.

7. Run the roof fan for 24hrs.
8. Victron setting should now read the draw of the fan plus 2 days of detectors.

Would this be the procedure? Or is it more practical to note the draw in an hour?

[booster]

Originally Posted by GallenH

Interesting question and I've wondered about procedure. Here's what I "think" I'd do. Please chime in.

1. Charge battery
2. Disconnect shore and turn off battery disconnect.
3. Let sit for 24hrs. Not sure if this is necessary.
4. Turn on battery disconnect.
5. Reset Victron 700
6. Come back in 24hrs and note the AH exhausted on the Victron.

With no appliances connected, I think this would only give me the AH draw from the propane and CO detectors.

7. Run the roof fan for 24hrs.
8. Victron setting should now read the draw of the fan plus 2 days of detectors.

Would this be the procedure? Or is it more practical to note the draw in an hour?

Yes that procedure would work just fine. Great that you know to get the base load first and then test one item at a time after that. I don't recall if you have any solar, but that would have to be disconnected if you do.


Especially for the frig tests, I think at least 24 hour tests are best because the power use is dependent on temp changes, interior frig temp settings, etc so a full day covers at least the day of variations. Of course if doing a frig test you would also want to make sure it is loaded with some stuff and precooled including the stuff so aren't looking at the much higher cooldown power use. Other things like the fan are going to use very close to the same power over time so short tests are fine. If you are checking how much power it takes for something like charging a phone or laptop you would only need until the charger shut off.



I got tired of not being able to use the van during testing which kind of messes up getting real world use numbers under various conditions. I got a small Wattsup power monitor that I can just put in the wiring to the frig pretty easily and read by simply removing the outside frig panel on our Roadtrek 190. That way I can get real world testing while in use, for just the frig, which I have done numerous times over the years. Since it is only on the frig, we can be on shore power, and the solar doesn't mess with the testing at all. The Wattsup will have the reading in amp hours and watt hours, so even the higher voltage when on charge can be taken into account. there are lots of cheap monitors on ebay and Amazon these days.



I certainly wish RSA would quit with technical advice on frigs, though, as all it is going to do is confuse anyone trying to get any information as he just doesn't seem to understand how the frig even works, and from his numbers has not really tested anything.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by booster

Yes that procedure would work just fine. Great that you know to get the base load first and then test one item at a time after that. I don't recall if you have any solar, but that would have to be disconnected if you do.

Thanks for your advice. I do have solar but it's a suitcase so it's easy to just not connect it. I don't have a comp fridge yet. But I will when this one kicks the bucket. I do, however, frequently use the furnace and I'm interested to see the draw and evaluate whether or not I need to increase my battery capacity. Like the fridge, the furnace is dependent on ambient temps so I'm not sure how accurate a reading I can get. But currently PHX is dipping into the low 40s at night and might provide a good test model for in the summer when I go into high altitudes.

I, as I'm sure others, greatly appreciate your constant participation in this forum. It IS great to be able to receive tech info from you and the others who pass their knowledge onto the rest of us. Happy Thxgiving.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GallenH

Thanks for your advice. I do have solar but it's a suitcase so it's easy to just not connect it. I don't have a comp fridge yet. But I will when this one kicks the bucket. I do, however, frequently use the furnace and I'm interested to see the draw and evaluate whether or not I need to increase my battery capacity. Like the fridge, the furnace is dependent on ambient temps so I'm not sure how accurate a reading I can get. But currently PHX is dipping into the low 40s at night and might provide a good test model for in the summer when I go into high altitudes.

I, as I'm sure others, greatly appreciate your constant participation in this forum. It IS great to be able to receive tech info from you and the others who pass their knowledge onto the rest of us. Happy Thxgiving.

Don't know what furnace you have, but our Suburban 16Kbtu unit in our 190 Roadtrek Chevy uses between 10-15ah most of the time overnight when we use it down to about 30-40* we do keep it fairly warm, in the mid 60s most times. Cooler would take considerably less, I am sure. Our furnace is in the front so have to heat essentially the whole van the same to keep the rear warm with all the windows around the bed. Those that have the furnace back there often put a curtain across the aisle just forward of the bathroom door so they heat much less and none of the front glass area.

[vwmaniaman]

Yes Gallen the 2 boxes are the same size but on the new one there is an electronic housing in the corner by the wheel well. On the old non-electronic box there is nothing there. The old fridge has supports on the bottom that are anged toward the fron of the van to eliminate clearance issues. By removing that electronic box and mounting it differently I was able to raise the box up to clear everything. A piece of 2X4 and a 1X2 on top of it was put underneath and that worked. I didn't have to change or cut any on the original cabinet opening, but I did have to make a spacer for underneath it to prevent anything outside from getting inside the coach. I filled some of the area around the fridge with expanding foam to assist in cooling and noise.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by vwmaniaman

Yes Gallen the 2 boxes are the same size but on the new one there is an electronic housing in the corner by the wheel well. On the old non-electronic box there is nothing there. The old fridge has supports on the bottom that are anged toward the fron of the van to eliminate clearance issues. By removing that electronic box and mounting it differently I was able to raise the box up to clear everything. A piece of 2X4 and a 1X2 on top of it was put underneath and that worked. I didn't have to change or cut any on the original cabinet opening, but I did have to make a spacer for underneath it to prevent anything outside from getting inside the coach. I filled some of the area around the fridge with expanding foam to assist in cooling and noise.

Good call on the insulation. I was initially worried that clearance was needed around the fridge so I emailed Dometic. They asked for a picture of the rear of my fridge and after receiving it said "yeah, filling the voids is fine. I also used metal duct tape around it as well.