Diesel Promaster!

[wincrasher]

FitRV just posted this. VERY interesting.

[youtube:113ticu3]Yfvt7P1mv_w[/youtube:113ticu3]

[booster]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

FitRV just posted this. VERY interesting.

[youtube:2dnkcilc]Yfvt7P1mv_w[/youtube:2dnkcilc]

Good find, very interesting. His mentioning of the shifting makes me wonder how they handle the near full power, uphill, downshifts. Our Chevy drives me nuts when it downshifts when I think it is too early, and the automatic cushions things a bit. In manual transmission cars and trucks, many people, me included, would slow down before a climbing downshift, or allow it to go slower in the higher gear before shifting. 4000 rpm downshifts with a manual can be kink of hard on things, if the shift it at the points they would with a normal automatic. I am sure we will learn more as folks get them in the future. More options and choices is always better.

[gerrym51]

A diesel promaster will have all the possible problems of a diesel sprinter as far as emissions controls. it will have a dpf,egr and def system.

[wincrasher]

I wouldn't worry about such things. Most RVers will never see 100,000 miles, let alone the mileage required for these items to break. My 2500HD Silverado has been bullet proof (70,000 miles so far) and gets good mileage (22 highway). The DEF system is a blessing as there is no soot or stink. I just wish the fuel was cheaper.

The diesel promaster should return about 1/3 better mileage, but the fuel is 1/3 more expensive than gas, so it washed from that aspect. So the payback on the ~$5000 extra cost will never be recovered. The big difference to me would be if the load carrying or towing was much higher than the gas model. If payload was another 2-3000 lbs, or the towing was 5,000 lbs, then it might be worth it. Especially if you were looking at the B+/C models like the Via or Trend, or even a Navion or Viva on this platform.

If you were going to buy a Travato, Zion, or Lexor, then I'd be hard pressed to say get the diesel. The gas engine performance is so good, as well as fuel economy, that it just isn't worth it unless you want to tow a fairly heavy trailer or a car (on a dolly).

[stanw909]

I saw that review the other day buy was chagrined that he didn't mention MPG.I realize that would not be completely accurate givin the short drive but the computer could tell him the city figure. The are some on the Promaster forums claiming 30 mpg in a 3500 Promaster at 65 mph. Gas will not stay this low but I think the real advantage will be the transmission. The gas version has a beefed up minivan trans while the diesel trans is the automatic clutch that is used in Europe and appears to be reliable.

[bobojay]

He gave some wrong info in the video also. It's not the same ECO diesel that's in all other "Dodge" trucks. It's a PM exclusive, although it's been here for several years in Fuso medium duties.
The trans does have to be in neutral to start it, but not when shutting down. The trans can be manually shifted if the driver wants, and can be taken from a stop to acceleration taking off in second gear if desired.
Current PM diesel drivers are reporting upwards of 27 mpg with no problem attaining that figure. One, on his second PM, first was gas, has reported 25+ mpg figured by miles & gallons used, not the dash readout, running the van and loaded trailer weighing 8800 lbs for both. This is a high roof 2500.

[wincrasher]

It is curious that they aren't using the same diesel that is in the Jeep and the RAM trucks. The V6 gas engine is the same one.

Maybe it's an issue of transmissions, or maybe it's a production availability issue.

Or maybe they just want the advantage of offering the same van, engine and drivetrain globally, as the diesel is the predominate offering worldwide.

[booster]

That's interesting, in a couple of articles I saw about the engine they said it was the same as the jeep engine, just altered for the fwd van.

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by booster

That's interesting, in a couple of articles I saw about the engine they said it was the same as the jeep engine, just altered for the fwd van.

The Jeep engine is the V6, same as in the 1500 Ram pickup. The PM diesel is a 4cyl.....

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

It is curious that they aren't using the same diesel that is in the Jeep and the RAM trucks. The V6 gas engine is the same one.

Maybe it's an issue of transmissions, or maybe it's a production availability issue.

Or maybe they just want the advantage of offering the same van, engine and drivetrain globally, as the diesel is the predominate offering worldwide.

I think it's because it's the same 4 cyl & semi-manual that's in the Ducato in Europe and other markets. Less engineering mess...

[booster]

Originally Posted by bobojay

I think it's because it's the same 4 cyl & semi-manual that's in the Ducato in Europe and other markets. Less engineering mess...

I agree.

It could also be fwd/rwd thing. Only the Promaster uses it as FWD.

That also brought up the point of the transmission they use for the gasser. From what I can see it is a 62TE, which is the base for all the car, minivan V6 applications also. I don't think it is used in any other trucks (meaning rear drive pickup type). It is the same engine, so the trans should be able to handle the power OK. They do talk of some ratio changes as well as shift point and other programming, but didn't find much on durability upgrades, which I would think they would have to do some of. I would think that a class B Promaster would be carrying a substantially higher load, and thus running the transmission at a higher % of rated power (which is usually a good predictor of life when combined with running temp), than what they would calculate for regular van which wouldn't be loaded like the 100% very often. Good cooling will probably be a given It will be very interesting to see what temps they see in use in a b, how much they gear hunt, and how well they hold up. Does Scangauge work on the Promasters, with tranny temp, yet?

[bobojay]

I read somewhere when the PM first came out that the 62TE went through a cooling capability enhancement as well as heavier duty clutches and higher line pressures for it's commercial upgrade.
The biggest complaint you see on the PM forums is the constant upshift/downshift action on the highway. If I was having this issue, I think I'd run in tow/haul mode all the time as well as running it in 5th gear in mildly hilly country.

[mlts22]

I would be surprised if there isn't an aftermarket TCM tune available to address this in a few months.

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by mlts22

I would be surprised if there isn't an aftermarket TCM tune available to address this in a few months.

Agree...

On the Diesel/automated-manual trans combo in the PM, reading about some of the vehicles, miles and loads this drivetrain handles over in Europe, and here for the motor in the Fuso medium duties, there won't be any issues with people worrying about this combo serving the purposes and getting the service out of the PM diesel version in an RV class C or B

[mlts22]

What I'm surprised at is that the AMT has not replaced all automatic transmissions across the board. The AMT is simpler, uses less power, and supposedly has a much longer usable drivetrain life. IIRC, it can handle higher temperatures, stuff which would burn up a hydraulic auto.

[Boxster1971]

Have you driven a vehicle with an AMT? I have and they are not as smooth as a full auto planetary geared Automatic. They are just a manual transmission, feel like one and you might as well drive it by manually shifting so you can control when it shifts. They are solid mechanically as you have said, but not comfortable for those used to full automatics.


- - Mike
2013 Airstream Interstate from 2012 Sprinter 3500 tall & long