Did you finance or pay cash for your Class B?

[michaelingp]

After 20 years, you'll have a 20 y.o. vehicle, with 20 y.o. technology. I sold my problem-prone Dodge-based Roadtrek when it was 15 years old. I probably shouldn't have waited that long. My ProMaster is 100 times better, but then I keep reminding myself, it should be better, it has something like 16 years of technology improvements. Still, it doesn't have a lot of the modern safety features, like adaptive cruise control, which I think are unlikely to be available as add-ons.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

After 20 years, you'll have a 20 y.o. vehicle, with 20 y.o. technology. I sold my problem-prone Dodge-based Roadtrek when it was 15 years old. I probably shouldn't have waited that long. My ProMaster is 100 times better, but then I keep reminding myself, it should be better, it has something like 16 years of technology improvements. Still, it doesn't have a lot of the modern safety features, like adaptive cruise control, which I think are unlikely to be available as add-ons.

Really good point. Vehicle technology is changing so fast right now that it makes my head spin. Just bought a new Volvo with all the latest. I was stunned just how far things have progressed since the last time I bought a new car. Safety features especially are just astounding. The car will still let me do stupid things, but it actively fights me if it thinks I am trying to kill somebody.

Frankly, we will be lucky if in 20 years it will even be legal to drive today's B-vans on the highway.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

After 20 years, you'll have a 20 y.o. vehicle, with 20 y.o. technology. I sold my problem-prone Dodge-based Roadtrek when it was 15 years old. I probably shouldn't have waited that long. My ProMaster is 100 times better, but then I keep reminding myself, it should be better, it has something like 16 years of technology improvements. Still, it doesn't have a lot of the modern safety features, like adaptive cruise control, which I think are unlikely to be available as add-ons.

I agree...I'm not sure I'll be wanting to drive the Roadtrek RS Adventurous in 20 years...
I'll be in my 80s....

And, honestly don't think I'll keep the van more than 7 to 10 years from now.... I agree with you completely that vehicles approaching 15 years are more prone to problems...

I normally keep vehicles 15 years maximum... but, I did keep my Honda Accord for 19 years... great car...

As for changing technology...you can't stop it...although adaptive cruise control is still relatively new... only certain cars have that as standard equipment....

My 2012 Mercedes Benz Sprinter has most modern features, but, no trip computer, and fancy electronic gadgetry... standard cruise control, etc... Remember, it's a truck and a lot of lower end cars have things like distance to empty and a mileage computer....

I did add back up proximity sensors for the rear and have dual cameras on the front and rear of the vehicle...

Plus other things my cars don't have like a tire pressure monitoring system that displays the tire pressure for all six tires...

Good luck with your RAM Promaster..... someone else on the forum went off the deep end and sold their RAM Promaster out the desperation... apparently had a steering and alignment issue.... THE really BAD thing was Dodge would NOT assist her ... neither would Pleasure Way... shame on them....

And, it was a 2017 model.... they should have done something.... horrible.

[Cliffhanger]

As pointed out, technology advances constantly. That doesn't necessarily mean one has to have it. If a vehicle gives you pleasure today and serves your purpose, why shouldn't it in ten years? I come from an age when we didn't have seat belts. There was no cruise control, and no antilock brakes (to my disdain). As technology advances there will be features you can add on and others that you'll just have to live without. But, just ask yourself if your chosen mode of travel still does the job you chose it to do. If it stops, then get another and all those new, soon to be surpassed, advances.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

As pointed out, technology advances constantly. That doesn't necessarily mean one has to have it. If a vehicle gives you pleasure today and serves your purpose, why shouldn't it in ten years? I come from an age when we didn't have seat belts. There was no cruise control, and no antilock brakes (to my disdain). As technology advances there will be features you can add on and others that you'll just have to live without. But, just ask yourself if your chosen mode of travel still does the job you chose it to do. If it stops, then get another and all those new, soon to be surpassed, advances.

Well, while you can certainly drive any vehicle you want... safety is my main goal, so, there's some basic things like ABS, air bags, electronic stability control, cruise control is nice of course, AC, just to name a few...

No, you don't need everything... but, safety is very important.

[BBQ]

.

The switch to electric cars will be "traumatic".
We are at the bottom of an exponential curve right now. Once it starts to take off, things will change so fast, we will ask "What happened".

What to do with the 20 yrs old fossil fuel RVs?

Fuel will still be available. But at what cost?

Ask any pilot and they will tell you the dilemma we are facing with the Avgas -- the fuel is still available, but supply is getting tight. ie it is expensive, and you can't get the fuel in a lot of the places.

[warpig]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

The switch to electric cars will be "traumatic".
We are at the bottom of an exponential curve right now. Once it starts to take off, things will change so fast, we will ask "What happened".

What to do with the 20 yrs old fossil fuel RVs?

Fuel will still be available. But at what cost?

Ask any pilot and they will tell you the dilemma we are facing with the Avgas -- the fuel is still available, but supply is getting tight. ie it is expensive, and you can't get the fuel in a lot of the places.

Mad Max, BBQ. Mad Max...

[Cliffhanger]

I agree that safety is certainly important. Yet, not to be too curmudgeonly here, if your RV was safe when you bought it, why can't it be safe enough ten years later. If you drove it safely ten years ago, drive it safely now. Those new advances probably do enhance safety but, only marginally compared to just driving attentively and appropriate to conditions. A friend of mine that worked in public health had a poster on his wall that read "There's no such thing as too much safety". We had quite a discussion about that, and about risk assessment, living, and and deliberately taking risks. Not saying one should purposely purchase an unsafe vehicle.... take advantage of current technology but don't throw it away when it's no longer the latest and greatest. Perhaps when I hit my 90's my risk assessment will tell me to take advantage of a self driving unit.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

I agree that safety is certainly important. Yet, not to be too curmudgeonly here, if your RV was safe when you bought it, why can't it be safe enough ten years later. If you drove it safely ten years ago, drive it safely now. Those new advances probably do enhance safety but, only marginally compared to just driving attentively and appropriate to conditions. A friend of mine that worked in public health had a poster on his wall that read "There's no such thing as too much safety". We had quite a discussion about that, and about risk assessment, living, and and deliberately taking risks. Not saying one should purposely purchase an unsafe vehicle.... take advantage of current technology but don't throw it away when it's no longer the latest and greatest. Perhaps when I hit my 90's my risk assessment will tell me to take advantage of a self driving unit.

I expect that 10 years is fine ..... safety wise....

Probably won't keep the van beyond that time.... we'll see...

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

I agree that safety is certainly important. Yet, not to be too curmudgeonly here, if your RV was safe when you bought it, why can't it be safe enough ten years later. If you drove it safely ten years ago, drive it safely now. Those new advances probably do enhance safety but, only marginally compared to just driving attentively and appropriate to conditions.

Have you driven a vehicle with state-of-the-art safety features? There is nothing marginal about what has happened in the last 4 years. What these cars routinely do is almost creepy. Human ability to be constantly attentive is severely limited and isn't going to get any better. These technologies are just getting started.

Unfortunately, my RV was NOT safe when I bought it. It was as safe as the technology of the day (2014) supported, but in absolute terms driving is insanely dangerous. In 2016, 37,461 Americans died in traffic accidents--that's one-quarter of all accidental deaths. This is craziness, and telling people to pay more attention is not going to help. Only technology will fix this. I for one am signing up enthusiastically.

[Davydd]

These are some of the 2019 Sprinter Safety Features of which I don't have in my 2015 other than a warning when I cross a lane line and just some of the blind spot assist. What I do have is a active braking assist if I taking a turn to fast. I learned that once and I think that was put in 2015. I'm very much looking forward to the new models and why I have delayed until 2019.


Active Lane Keeping Assist can help to detect when the vehicle is unintentionally leaving its lane, warn the driver and, if necessary, actively help to return the vehicle to its lane by means of braking intervention.

Standard Active Brake Assist can help to avoid accidents with vehicles ahead and with crossing pedestrians or to mitigate the effects of an accident using autonomous emergency braking technology.

Active Distance Assist DISTRONIC allows the driver to set and maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front, particularly useful for motorway driving or in stop-and-go traffic.

Blind Spot Assist with Rear Cross Traffic Alert can output visual and audible warnings to help prevent accidents during lane changing, when reversing out of parking spaces and when exiting from the vehicle.

The Parking package with 360° camera provides comprehensive support when parking and manoeuvring, thereby enhancing safety and driver experience.

The WET WIPER SYSTEM1 offers the driver the best possible visibility whilst the blades wash the windscreen.

The LED High Performance headlights provide for improved illumination of the carriageway and further enhance the front-end design.

[goreds2]

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

As pointed out, technology advances constantly. That doesn't necessarily mean one has to have it. If a vehicle gives you pleasure today and serves your purpose, why shouldn't it in ten years? I come from an age when we didn't have seat belts. There was no cruise control, and no antilock brakes (to my disdain). As technology advances there will be features you can add on and others that you'll just have to live without. But, just ask yourself if your chosen mode of travel still does the job you chose it to do. If it stops, then get another and all those new, soon to be surpassed, advances.

Don't we go camping to get away from technology?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by goreds2

Don't we go camping to get away from technology?

Technology is for getting there.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Technology is for getting there.

YES.. absolutely... I rely on this to get me there and back...

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

After 20 years, you'll have a 20 y.o. vehicle, with 20 y.o. technology. I sold my problem-prone Dodge-based Roadtrek when it was 15 years old. I probably shouldn't have waited that long. My ProMaster is 100 times better, but then I keep reminding myself, it should be better, it has something like 16 years of technology improvements. Still, it doesn't have a lot of the modern safety features, like adaptive cruise control, which I think are unlikely to be available as add-ons.

I don't agree that just because a vehicle is 20 years old, it must be obsolete and difficult to live with. That's a purely subjective assessment. I understand that your Dodge was having problems, but if a vehicle still does what you need it to do and it's not breaking down all the time, its age is utterly irrelevant. New technology isn't essential just because it's new. In fact, it can introduce new problems you hadn't encountered before. Ultimately, everyone has to determine for themselves what best fulfills their needs...old or new, entry level or high end, etc.

As far as safety goes, people have been driving themselves around, without autonomous tech, for more than a century and that will continue to be the case for decades to come. I'm not against it, but its full implementation is so far off that it's not a consideration for me. Fully autonomous vehicles won't be a reality for at least 30 years, in my opinion, and that's fine with me. I'm old school in that way, I guess. I have no problem driving myself, I prefer it actually, and will continue to do it for as long as I can, which will likely be the rest of my driving life.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

I don't agree that just because a vehicle is 20 years old, it must be obsolete and difficult to live with. That's a purely subjective assessment. I understand that your Dodge was having problems, but if a vehicle still does what you need it to do and it's not breaking down all the time, its age is utterly irrelevant. New technology isn't essential just because it's new. In fact, it can introduce new problems you hadn't encountered before. Ultimately, everyone has to determine for themselves what best fulfills their needs...old or new, entry level or high end, etc.

As far as safety goes, people have been driving themselves around, without autonomous tech, for more than a century and that will continue to be the case for decades to come. I'm not against it, but its full implementation is so far off that it's not a consideration for me. Fully autonomous vehicles won't be a reality for at least 30 years, in my opinion, and that's fine with me. I'm old school in that way, I guess. I have no problem driving myself, I prefer it actually, and will continue to do it for as long as I can, which will likely be the rest of my driving life.

I've read that by 2035 they expect 50% of all vehicles to be self driving.... probably take another 15 years to 2050 before you see that fully implemented... I don't expect to be around long enough to see 2050...

It's going to be a major cultural change... insurance companies will likely allow people to still drive a non autonomous vehicle provided you're willing to pay a lot of extra money... computers don't take unnecessary risks....cars will be like an appliance to get you from point A to B.....the thrill of driving will likely be gone.... think of it this way...you can't realistically take your horse anywhere you want... like in the old west......

Things change....I'm NOT saying that a 20 years old car is unsafe... but, a 1950s car... yeah, they are unsafe......

There's a tipping point at which cars lacking certain safety standards are inherently unsafe... think no seat belts, no air bags, no collapsible steering wheel., No ABS, no disc brakes, ...the list goes on.. do you see what I mean???

Look, enjoy your 1998..RV.. trust me..it's still pretty good..no reason to replace it....

I really don't like older vehicles... I'm talking 1960s and earlier... they just aren't statistically safe compared to today's vehicles....

Thankfully, most of these are no longer on the road.....

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

I've read that by 2035 they expect 50% of all vehicles to be self driving.... probably take another 15 years to 2050 before you see that fully implemented... I don't expect to be around long enough to see 2050...

It's going to be a major cultural change... insurance companies will likely allow people to still drive a non autonomous vehicle provided you're willing to pay a lot of extra money... computers don't take unnecessary risks....cars will be like an appliance to get you from point A to B.....the thrill of driving will likely be gone.... think of it this way...you can't realistically take your horse anywhere you want... like in the old west......

Things change....I'm NOT saying that a 20 years old car is unsafe... but, a 1950s car... yeah, they are unsafe......

There's a tipping point at which cars lacking certain safety standards are inherently unsafe... think no seat belts, no air bags, no collapsible steering wheel., No ABS, no disc brakes, ...the list goes on.. do you see what I mean???

Look, enjoy your 1998..RV.. trust me..it's still pretty good..no reason to replace it....

I really don't like older vehicles... I'm talking 1960s and earlier... they just aren't statistically safe compared to today's vehicles....

Thankfully, most of these are no longer on the road.....

We've veered off topic here but... Fully self driving cars CANNOT be made mandatory until no legacy vehicles remain on the roads. Reason being, in order for a fully autonomous system to work, ALL vehicles must be able to communicate with a network via satellites, cell towers, etc. as well as with all other vehicles. Protocols for that level of interconnection haven't even been developed yet. I don't know where you read that prediction, but there is no way all of that can happen by 2050.

Of course, vehicles are safer than they were even 10 years ago, let alone 50, but safety isn't everything. There's a reason many people, particularly driving enthusiasts like myself, love classic cars. There is something about the pure driving experience of a classic that is completely gone from today's vehicles and that is far more valuable to many than the prospect of being wrapped in a cocoon of safety. Don't think for a second that everyone is as eager as you are to hand over control of their vehicle. There will be monumental resistance to self driving vehicles, which of course won't stop regulators from forcing them on us, but that resistance will present a formidable barrier for legislators and regulators to overcome. Anyway, I believe the transition to MANDATORY self driving vehicles will take FAR longer than 2050.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

I believe the transition to MANDATORY self driving vehicles will take FAR longer than 2050.

Good luck with that.

Don't worry, though. While you are riding, you will be able to put on your VR goggles and drive a simulation of any old car you like. You won't be able to tell the difference.

[BBQ]

.

Drive for fun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6SEXp3-lo8

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

We've veered off topic here but... Fully self driving cars CANNOT be made mandatory until no legacy vehicles remain on the roads. Reason being, in order for a fully autonomous system to work, ALL vehicles must be able to communicate with a network via satellites, cell towers, etc. as well as with all other vehicles. Protocols for that level of interconnection haven't even been developed yet. I don't know where you read that prediction, but there is no way all of that can happen by 2050.

Of course, vehicles are safer than they were even 10 years ago, let alone 50, but safety isn't everything. There's a reason many people, particularly driving enthusiasts like myself, love classic cars. There is something about the pure driving experience of a classic that is completely gone from today's vehicles and that is far more valuable to many than the prospect of being wrapped in a cocoon of safety. Don't think for a second that everyone is as eager as you are to hand over control of their vehicle. There will be monumental resistance to self driving vehicles, which of course won't stop regulators from forcing them on us, but that resistance will present a formidable barrier for legislators and regulators to overcome. Anyway, I believe the transition to MANDATORY self driving vehicles will take FAR longer than 2050.

Let's get something clear... I'm only telling you what I've read....

AND...I won't live long enough to see this happen.....and I'm glad for that....
WHY??

It will be VERY UGLY.... people will not want to relinquish the controls of the driving experience....

You really think that the "pure driving experience" from today's cars is gone???
I would strongly disagree with you about that...

I think that modern cars today are amazing.... more power from turbo charged engines, and a variety of new automatics that were never available in the 1950s-1990s cars...

1960 was the decade of the muscle cars... unfortunately... they were really gas guzzling behemoths that were too front end heavy and didn't handle worth a damn.....broke down a lot....that old pushrods valve technology was old school....most cars of that era didn't have over head CAM technology and were pretty inefficient......as a matter of fact the standard for measuring horsepower back then "brake horsepower" is rarely talked about today. It was wildly exaggerated. So.. when someone talks about horsepower today...it only seems like its less..... Today's cars have plenty of horsepower..and a better balance of torque and horsepower.......


The 1970s and 1980s ... particularly the 80s...were a relatively boring decade ....lots of terrible cars ..I had a 1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Cierra... FOUR cylinder...that couldn't get out of its own way.....it got pretty good mileage..and reliable... BUT, exciting.... definitely NOT..

The 90s were a dramatic change for the better..... my old Honda Accord with the VTEC engine was a transformation ... early variable valve timing technology that became standard in most new cars today...

SO...yes... I think cars have definitely gotten better over time...more efficient, more powerful all from smaller engines.....and better suspension...