Deciding on which class B to buy.

[markopolo]

Parking is important. My preference is in the garage. Plugged in all the time. Fridge off until we cool it down prior to a trip.

Any chance of modifying your garage so your new Sprinter fits in? Maybe as a later project once you are hooked on B travel like most of us.....

Second choice would be the driveway. You can use blocks or 2x6's to help level it.
Street parking would be next.
I don't know if I'd get an RV that had to be parked in a paid storage lot somewhere else all of the time. (I don't mean winter storage) That's one of the best features of a Class B; you can usually park it where a car fits.

The Sprinter should be fine on a moderate slope. Some Class B's with a fiberglass roof and recessed air conditioner might leak when it rains if the slope is too much. Owners park with the front of the van higher than the rear to avoid that. I don't think a Sprinter would leak though.

As Ron pointed out the main concern would be running the fridge. The RV needs to fairly level, not precisely level. Here's a good discussion on leveling: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...php?f=9&t=2207

[puppie96]

Hi -- I haven't been looking at this forum much in recent weeks and I just read through all 8 pages of this thread. We went through much of the same thought process that you have and took the plunge last March 28. We are now the extremely happy owners of the 2012 LTV Free Spirit. I have a few observations on some of the topics you have raised. After having gone back and forth on the issue of getting a B versus a C versus a "B+", and deciding on a Sprinter based B, just trying to find any to look at was a major challenge. Over years of casually attending RV shows, we'd seen numerous Roadtreks and not much else. Eventually we were able to see current models of Airstreams and Winnebagos and truthfully, we weren't that impressed with either. A major problem for us was what seemed, for us at least, way too much emphasis on providing the second row of seats up front at the expense of storage space. I don't recall that we were ever able to see a 2-seater of either. They offered optional removable cabinetry so that you could eliminate the second row, but the look was, IMO, simply terrible. I remember describing one of the replacement cabinets as looking like furniture from Walmart requiring assembly. Of course, the removables don't give you the same built-in look that you have with continuous countertops and the like, and we thought it made a big difference in the overall look of the rig, and at these prices, cheap looking is not what you want to see. The overall finish quality in both was disappointing, we felt, in comparison with other manufacturers. I should probably add that we had been pretty much brainwashed by a lifetime of marketing and commentary making both of these makes seem like standouts, so we had high expectations. We avidly read Davydd's accounts of his GW van, but as you have said, how can you see one? We finally settled more and more into either PW or LTV. We were given an offer on a PW 2010 coach (on a 2008 chassis) with very low mileage, loved the way it drove, liked a lot of things about it. However, we also were looking at the LTV and in the end, we chose the LTV over the PW because of fairly minor details, but some of them have been mentioned: one, the driver's seat area in the PW does seem cramped, and for some reason the LTV, while still closed in by the solid bathroom wall behind the driver's seat, allows a little more space, or something. It just felt more comfortable. We also liked that you could rotate the driver's seat and while the rotation is limited, you can have a usable front table mount for a choice of eating areas. I'm not sure you could rotate the PW's at all. The biggest thing, though, was the under sofa storage, which is just huge on the LTV, but almost totally taken up by the undersofa mechanism on the PW. (I read somewhere that they have improved that in the current models, though.)

I would suggest that you not overlook the out of town offerings. We live in St. Louis but ended up purchasing our LTV in Las Vegas! I read about your objections to flying and I respect that, but this might be an exception -- they gave us a price for the LTV that we thought we wanted, paid our plane fare with no obligation to buy and nothing signed up front. In the event that we purchased it, we would camp at a local campground, also at their expense as I recall, and they would give us on site instruction on its features. The offer they made us for a brand new LTV was so competitive with the one we had on the used PW that it made it a no brainer to buy the new one. We flew out, were met at the airport by the dealer who took us to their location, we loved the van, they put in a front table mount for us because it hadn't had one factory installed, and as promised, they gave us complete instruction at the campground. We stayed for 2 nights and the dealer was on-call throughout, stopped by the campground several times, and answered all of our many calls with questions. Then our first trip was the 2000 or so miler from there to here and it was a BLAST! We've done many many road trips but this one couldn't have been better; the only thing we missed was the trip to the Grand Canyon because we were afraid of possibly freezing temps up there and we didn't want to have to winterize. Now we've somehow managed to put something like 12,000 miles on it since last March, and when I started adding up all the individual trips we've probably slept on there for 6 weeks total. Remember, we are total newbies so this surprised us quite a bit. Some great stuff has come up, like parties and weddings at a reasonable distance away, where we have our house along with us, and our dogs. It's great! The bed with the memory foam mattress is very comfortable for both of us. If you are 6' tall, you might have to sleep at a slight angle -- the bed is a little bit short. How this compares to the PW and others, I don't know. It does seem that the Roadtreks I saw at a recent RV show also had short beds.

We like the "tall stuff" behind the driver. It's much better to be able to see out of the right side at your camp site, where the table, fire pit, etc., typically reside. It's also easier to supervise the outdoor cooking happening out there.

We have really been wanting a screen door like the one on the GW van, and we are definitely planning to call Advanced RV in the near future to set up with them for a retrofit, which they say that they do. We like some of the features on the Ocean One and it will be cool to see one in person. BTW, we do a lot of cooking and we like our galley a lot--I've noticed that the newer models seem to be cutting the kitchen space somewhat, which I wouldn't want. The fridge, while not as bag as some including the PW, I believe, it larger than many and usually works pretty well for us.

We're looking forward to hearing what you decide about your purchase. We started out with not much more knowledge than you and it couldn't have worked better.

[Rok]

Thanks, Ron, but parking it on the slope would just be for storing it for a while. We definitely wouldn't be able to sleep comfortably in the rig when it was parked on the slope. Davydd said that you can turn off the propane refrigerator when it is not in use. Maybe that would be the key--turn it off before parking. We also would probabaly not want to fill it to the brim with diesel before parking it either.

As mentioned earlier, the salespeople we've talked to have given us mixed messages. I don't know if there is a safe way to store/park a class B on a slope for an extended period of time. For the record the slope isn't horrible, but it isn't flat, either.

As always, thanks for the comments, guys.

............Rocky

Originally Posted by Ron J. Moore

Rok,
You mention your concern about the slope and equipment in a B, I think you might be refering to the refrigerator. We have the Dometic, and a Rep from that organization was at a Rally and said if you can sleep comfortably in your van, then it will not affect the operation of the referigerator. Hope this helps, Ron.

[markopolo]

puppie96 - sounds like you were treated very well by your dealer and very appropriately Nice to hear that. Feel free to post the name of the dealership if you like.

[puppie96]

Originally Posted by markopolo

puppie96 - sounds like you were treated very well by your dealer and very appropriately Nice to hear that. Feel free to post the name of the dealership if you like.

Sure! Wagon Trail RV, and our salesperson was John Chelist.

We just turn off our fridge when we are storing it for a while.

I recall back earlier Rocky asked about handling in wind -- that's one thing that isn't so great about the Sprinter -- it's a bear in a crosswind. I'm fairly strong and generally I'll drive anything anywhere, but it is very hard on my arms in strong wind so mr. pup does the driving in windy conditions. You can really feel it as passenger, too, when a gust slams you, and it can be a bit scary. That was the one downside of taking I-40 back from Vegas -- lots of crosswind in New Mexico and the Texas panhandle. OTOH, I drove through continuous heavy rain for a couple hundred miles in OK, negotiating toll booths etc., with no problems.

[Rok]

Hey Teachergal,

A quick question about your Pleasure Way Plateau. (We are currently finalizing our research in preparation of making an offer on a new Plateau.) Do you still have your spare tire under the rear seat? Or, did you find another place for it?

Our decision at this point is going to possibly fall to price. The Plateau is our first choice due to quality of constructon and layout. The ERA is also in the running due to price, MANY additional features, and the fact that they will offer a loaner car for service (which is huge for us considering the distance we have to travel to any of the dealerships).

The Roadtrek Agile is now kind of out of the running due to the limitations due to size.

Also, potentially in the running, but probably not are (1) the Great West unit which doesn't make it because we can't see one up close and in person, and because there are no local dealerships, (2) The Airstream Interstate due to cost, and (3) Advanced RV's Ocean One due to ENORMOUS cost.

Anyway, if you can let us know about the placement of your spare tire if would help us make our decisions.

Thanks.

............Rocky

[teachergal]

My spare tire is currently residing in my parents garage in Williamsburg, VA

I decided that since I would not be able to change the tire by myself and I'd have to call roadside assistance they could A) bring a tire or B) tow me to a place that can fix it (on my Good Sam Roadside Assistance I have unlimited towing - I figure this is necessary with a Sprinter b/c if something major went wrong the closest place to fix it could be in another state!). The chances of needing the tire were slim and I needed the space to store other stuff. The tire simply wasn't carrying it's weight.

That being said....if you are interested in a spare tire, and you are near VA, I'd be happy to sell it to you! My parents have been on me to get it to someone who can use it but that's easier said than done!

[Davydd]

Knocking on wood after 100,000 miles we haven't needed a spare. We even drove 10,500 miles to Alaska and back including the all gravel On Top of the World road to Dawson City, Yukon.

We don't carry one with our dually Sprinter and understand that in an emergency you could use one of your dually tires if a front tire goes down. But in truth, I am like Teachergal. I no longer really have the strength to change those tires and am going to call a service to do what's necessary.

OK, knocking on wood again.

[Rick]

Hi Rocky,

I have the same van as teachergal. I still have the tire under the back seat but it does take up a lot of room. I would like to mount it in back like leasureway does. Has anybody looked into doing that? I have the bikes on the back already though. My only thought about not taking the tire would be paying for a new tire when there is one sitting in garage at home.

[Rok]

Hi Rick,

As said before, The Pleasureway is probably the unit we are going to get--if the price is right. We'll default to the Winne ERA if not.

I have researched the matter a lot, and putting a rear mount like some of the other companies would require an additional mount to be welded on the back of the unit--I think it is another one just like the hitch mount. There are kits that will go into that receiver and mount a wheel and tire. Most of them fold down so both doors can be opened. If they are mounted to one side the emergency door (back door) can be opened in case of a fire, etc. If they are mounted in the middle, and not folded down, they will block both doors. I don't think most class B's have a window emergency exit (but I'm not sure of this).

It seems that when I ask the salesmen questions, they all hem and haw and give me some sort of answer that sounds like they know something, but also is non-commital, like "I think there would be a way to do that." or some such.

As far as spares go, I think the Roadtrek Sprinter units have them stowed somewhere under the van IN FRONT OF the rear axel. Here's what Roadtrek says:

The spare wheel is located on the driver side inboard of
the rear runningboard door, (see Picture B-P39A) in the RS,
and on the Continental tire carrier in the SS (Picture BP39C).
NOTE: The spare wheel on the 3500 Sprinter-based
vehicles (RS) with the dual rear wheels is very heavy. In
most cases it would be better to have a technician (CAA,
AAA, garage, etc.) perform a wheel change

Anyway, checking all this out has got us wondering whether we even want to take it all on. It all sounds too daunting. When we asked our salesperson how you check and fill the air in the tires, he said that the inner tires on the duallies have long stems that go throught the outer rims so you can reach them easily. A quick google search found that it wasn't quite that easy. (If someone can corroborate or falsify this I would appreciate it.)

Anyway the quick answer about an alternate placement for the spare is that it requires welding if you want to do it right. Personally, after buying a brand spanking new rig and shelling out all that money, the last thing I want to do is let some goof with a blowtorch at it. You know?

Then there is the issue of tire pressure monitoring. Passenger automobiles are now required by law to have tire pressure monitoring systems on them. (We have two cars that have it and we love the feature.) Because of their GVW, Sprinters don't have to have thoses systems. I want a pressure monitoring system on a BIG unit even more than I want it on my autos (especially if it has dually tires that are difficult to get at). In order to get it, I will have to put it on aftermarket, and aftermarket systems have their own problems.

Maybe I'm just a worry wart, but I kind of want to get a lot of things figured out before I buy.

Hopefully amongst my rantings, I've answered your question.

Here is a question for you: Did you buy your unit new? If so, how did you go about dickering down your price? What price did you pay? (If you are willing to say.)

After buying the Pleasure Way, is there anything you would offer to me to encourage me or discourage me from choosing that unit?

I guess that is more than one question, but hopefully you can help me out.

Thanks...........Rocky

[Rok]

Sorry Rick,

For some reason I didn't catch that you had the back of your unit filled with bikes already. I think that will make matters difficult unless you mount it on top or something. Maybe the bikes and the spare could fit somehow together on the back.

I wonder if the spot Roadtrek uses is available on other brands. Maybe it is a Sprinter add on. And, maybe it is the reason that all RT Sprinter based models DON'T have the bathroom on the driver's side. That is a question I have been wondering about quite a bit--Why does Roadtrek, the #1 Class B producer in the world, not have any Sprinter models with the bathroom on the driver's side? If anyone knows for sure why, please let me know.

Good luck...........Rocky

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Rok

................Anyway, checking all this out has got us wondering whether we even want to take it all on. It all sounds too daunting........

Lots of owners go through this in the first few weeks after buying an RV. You just getting this out of the way early! It doesn't take long to understand it all well enough to enjoy it.

Re: valve extensions - I had duallies on my Ford based Class C and one of the first things I had to change was the stock valves. It seem impossible to access the inner valves. I had the valves replaced on all six wheels. Both valves (from the duallies) are easy to access then for checking tire pressure and adding air with longer valves on the inner wheels. I bought the valves from Chuck the Tire Man http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~tire-man/default.html I did not want flexible valve extensions. Maybe someone with a Sprinter will comment on how they handle this.

Re: carrying the spare. Here are a few Sprinter options: http://sprinterstore.com/rear_tire_carrier.htm and http://www.aluminess.com/tire-racks.htm and http://sportsmobile.com/2_sr_options_ext.html (scroll down)

[Rok]

Hello all.

Here is an update on our situation:

A member of this forum contacted us to show us his Great West Legend EX (there are no Great West dealers in our area). It is a very nice rig with lots of bells and whistles. We were impressed. The company is smaller, but that is often better. There is a new owner who is a real go-getter who simply wants to build a better product and seems to be genuinely concerned about making his dollar the hard way--by providing a great product at a reasonable price and developing a good relationship with his end customer. You don't find that very often anymore. The unit is a bit more expensive than we expected, but should we buy it, which is a very good possibility, it sounds like we would get a red carpet treatment. (We would like that.)

The other contender is the Pleasure Way Plateau which is a very well built unit but a little less well appointed (many of the features would be needed to be added on). It has some features that are unsurpassed by others.

At this point we will have to choose between the two. Hopefully we will do it in a couple of days.

Thanks again everyone for your inputs here. This all has helped a lot. I think I have become an expert on Sprinter Class B's, or at least as much of an expert as one can be without ever having camped or slept in one.

Again, thanks to all who contributed here.

To Davydd: I think you own a Great West EX, don't you? You are very happy with your unit, aren't you? Is there anything you would change on it?

.................Rocky

[Davydd]

I have the 22'-9" GWVan Legend not the EX. I have it pretty much set up to do what I want. The things I would want changed really can't be done but are not deal breakers. I have made modifications such as changing the bathroom door and sliding curtains that are now standard on the GWVan. There's always a lot of little nagging things I think can be better.

I had a 2005 Pleasure-way Plateau. The deal breakers there for a new one were regressions in that the driver's seat got worse being notched into the bathroom wall. You could not swivel the seat to be functional for use in camp. The other thing was the electric sofa supports and mechanisms interfered with storage worse than my 2005. Pleasure-way, since I bought my GWVan, has improved the electric sofa supports and made storage easier but still nowhere as good as GWVan.

GWVan Legend, Pleasure-way Plateau, Leisure Travel Vans Free Spirit and Advanced RV Ocean have the most acceptable plans I can live with. I'll never accept the plan of the Roadtrek RS Adventurous, Airstream Interstate or the Winnebago Era 70X plan with the too tall kitchen counter on the drivers side with refrigerator and microwave under the counter. As an architect I think it is just an out and out piss-poor stupid design.

[Rok]

Our final decision is:

Great West Vans Legend SE. Our ETA for it is Feb. 28th/March 1st. (It was a very close call between that and the Legend EX. Our backup choice was the Pleasure Way Plateau.)

Our reason for buying that unit: (1) Number of options available and included on the stock unit. (2) Concern of the company about the end customer. Obviously almost all companies are concerned about their end customer, but Great West goes the extra yard. Dave, the owner of the company actually reaches out to his customers and works with them to make his product better. We found that very cool. (3) Nice layout with large refer/freezer, bathroom, and lots of storage. (4) Warantee: GW's Warantee transfers to subsequent users, Pleasure Way's does not (and they wouldn't make an exception even if the sale depended on it).

One of the things that is reall telling of the concern Great West has for its customers is, of all things, the valve stems for the tires. On many manufacturers models they come like they come stock: the outer dually's points in, and the inner one points out, but not very far. I'm sorry, but when I'm driving something this big and this expensive, I want to be able to check my tires before a trip and adjust the air in them if necessary. It's just prudent. GW reworks the valve stems so you can get to them. Some of the other manufacturers don't.

Here is a thread on another forum about checking and filling MB duallies: http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index. ... ic=49642.0

Maybe if the rig is used commercially, it is reasonable to expect the operator to crawl around under the vehicle or to get special tools to put in air, but as a recreational vehicle destined for long road trips, I think the situation should be taken care of by the company upgrading the Sprinter chassis.

Anyway, I guess that's the end of our tale of Deciding which Class B to buy.

Thanks once again to all who contributed.

...........Rocky

[pattonsr]

Borg makes one piece long valves for the steel/steel or steel/Alcoa aluminum wheels. Google "borg dually". The long inner is held in place by a grommet.

Barry

[Rok]

Thanks pattonsr, but the manufacturer of our new rig puts something on that gives easy access to the valve stems. (Maybe it is even the borg unit.)

.........Rocky

[pattonsr]

Rocky,

If the valves are bent one piece chrome and the inner is held in place by a grommet, then you have Borg Dually valves. If not you have valve extenders. Tireman also makes one piece chrome extenders but only Borg makes them also for the Alcoa aluminum wheels.

When I was at the Tampa show, I showed Advanced RV the Alcoa one piece valves so they could offer them in the future.

Barry

[Rok]

Thanks Barry,

Did you also show them to Great West? I think they were at that show, too. I know that there is some connection between the two companies--I think the project manager at Advanced was the production manager at Great West and left when it was sold.

Here's a link where the founder of Advanced is selling his Great West unit: http://www.advanced-rv.com/for-sale-gre ... otor-home/

Here is another link about what happened, I guess the guys name is Michael Ellis and it sounds like he was the GM at Great West until Dave Debraga took over, than he and a partner started Advanced. Michael's mission statement seems very straight forward. I don't know him, and have never talked with him, but I do know that Dave Debraga of Great West (who I have talked to) seems to be DOING what Michael says in his statement. Dave seems to be a real go-getter, and appears to have the customer's needs at heart. Here is a link to the Mission Statement of Mr. Ellis at Advanced.

http://www.advanced-rv.com/for-sale-gre ... otor-home/

It sounds like both of these companies are doing very similar things. I hope they are not competing for the same market, because they both seem to be great guys.

Sounds like you met either Mr. Ellis, or his partner. Do you have anything to add to the story?

By the way, I chose Great West because I was able to see one and the price seemed fair. When I saw the videos for Advanced, I wanted one of those, but I think the price is a little out of my league. We chose the shorter length unit (22' 9") instead of the longer one because of slightly better driveability and parking. It was very difficult to make that choice as I expect that the little extra room would seem like a lot after a week or so in the van.

Bottom line, though is that it sounds like we are essentially getting the same type of product as Advanced for a lower price. We'll know for sure once it arrives.

.............Rocky

[pattonsr]

Rocky,

I only showed the Borg Alcoa one piece valve extenders to Advanced RV.

Barry