Deciding between new Transit and Sprinter

[booster]

Transit has a lot of advantages, but I think they are losing out because of the single wheel Promaster having decent load capacity and the Transit not having a 3500 single rear wheel version. For the B market, I would think a single wheel transit with the 9950# IIRC weight limit like the Nissans would give it better shot and still be under the 10K rules.

[parkgt]

Not sure I could handle driving an ugly PM even if it had some advantages.

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by booster

Transit has a lot of advantages, but I think they are losing out because of the single wheel Promaster having decent load capacity and the Transit not having a 3500 single rear wheel version. For the B market, I would think a single wheel transit with the 9950# IIRC weight limit like the Nissans would give it better shot and still be under the 10K rules.

Single rear wheel one-ton Transits exist. The SRW T350 has a 9500 GVWR, 500lbs more than the T250 and 800lbs less than the DRW T350HD.

For something as long and tall as a high roof Transit, I'm glad I have DRW's.

[Rocinante]

For us, our next van will probably be a Transit AWD with EcoBoost.

We currently have a 2016 Sprinter 170 EXT. It's a fine van and drives well. However, I am frustrated and unhappy that Sprinters are spec'ed such that they can't safely burn anything with more than 5% biodiesel when several states mandate selling #2 diesel with biodiesel content that can be as high as 20%. I hate that there are states I have to avoid unless I can fill up before crossing into that state and then again as soon as I leave. This list includes Illinois, Minnesota, and several others. I'm done buying anything as fussy about fuel as this Sprinter seems to be.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

For us, our next van will probably be a Transit AWD with EcoBoost.

Yep!
Wanna start a club?

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by parkgt

Not sure I could handle driving an ugly PM even if it had some advantages.

Beauty is the eye of the beholder.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

For us, our next van will probably be a Transit AWD with EcoBoost.

We currently have a 2016 Sprinter 170 EXT. It's a fine van and drives well. However, I am frustrated and unhappy that Sprinters are spec'ed such that they can't safely burn anything with more than 5% biodiesel when several states mandate selling #2 diesel with biodiesel content that can be as high as 20%. I hate that there are states I have to avoid unless I can fill up before crossing into that state and then again as soon as I leave. This list includes Illinois, Minnesota, and several others. I'm done buying anything as fussy about fuel as this Sprinter seems to be.

MB says you can burn up to 20%. Maybe they don’t like it with all their caveats but they still warrant 5 years and 100,000 miles which is pretty generous. States are not required to label biodiesel up to 5% and the label then automatically 5-20%. Minnesota has never gone over 10%. The supply just isn’t there. I haven’t found any difference in performance and I am from Minnesota. Biodiesel is losing popularity anyway.

I kind of like my potential 500 mile range again on a fill. I like my Espar diesel heat and instant hot water and not occupying space in the van other than the baseboard space. Yes, you can get Espar gas, but who offers it in America?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Yes, you can get Espar gas, but who offers it in America?

As far as I can tell pretty much ALL the custom upfitters who deal with Transits offer them. You can buy them from Rixen's.

Total non-issue.

[jrobe]

Originally Posted by avanti

As far as I can tell pretty much ALL the custom upfitters who deal with Transits offer them. You can buy them from Rixen's.

Total non-issue.

I don't think this is true. The Freightliner dealer right down the road from me installs and services Espar diesel bunk heaters on every semi-truck and Sprinter (Mercedes owns Freightliner) that they now sell. They are experts and have installed hundreds of them. Mine has worked perfect for years now with regular yearly maintenance (they need regular fuel filter and atomizer screen replacements). They won't touch a gas unit. The last time I talked to my RV upfitter they would only install an Espar unit on a diesel Sprinter. If I wanted a Transit gas unit, I would have to order it online myself, install it myself and service it myself. There is no one within hundreds of miles of me that will work on one that I am aware of. I can drive 10 miles and have the diesel unit repaired with 1 day notice. For me, the gas unit is a big issue with no good solution yet.

I could make a very similar statement for a Transit 2nd alternator battery system.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by jrobe

I don't think this is true. The Freightliner dealer right down the road from me installs and services Espar diesel bunk heaters on every semi-truck and Sprinter (Mercedes owns Freightliner) that they now sell. They are experts and have installed hundreds of them. Mine has worked perfect for years now with regular yearly maintenance (they need regular fuel filter and atomizer screen replacements). They won't touch a gas unit. The last time I talked to my RV upfitter they would only install an Espar unit on a diesel Sprinter. If I wanted a Transit gas unit, I would have to order it online myself, install it myself and service it myself. There is no one within hundreds of miles of me that will work on one that I am aware of. I can drive 10 miles and have the diesel unit repaired with 1 day notice. For me, the gas unit is a big issue with no good solution yet.

I could make a very similar statement for a Transit 2nd alternator battery system.

Espar new S2D2 only sells high power - 4 units gas powered. Most folks use D2. In hydronic line there is no B limitation.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jrobe

I don't think this is true.

I could make a very similar statement for a Transit 2nd alternator battery system.

You keep saying this.

It is probably true that diesel Espars are more common than gas units, but that is only because there are used (as you said) in so many diesel trucks. That doesn't imply that gas units are in any way exotic or uncommon.

As just one example, many Thermo King dealers sell and service gas Espars. Random example:

https://www.peakthermoking.com/espar

If you like, you can call Jim Rixen, or Creative Mobile Interiors, or Embassy RV.

Just not an issue.


As for Transit power, I just can't imagine what you are worried about. Could you be more specific about the issue? The Transit BEMM seems pretty clear.

Moreover, if you don't believe that the Ford solution works, you can always just go to the always-reliable Nations Alternator and use their setup:

https://www.nationsstarteralternator...-p/a2-0114.htm

[Rocinante]

Until MB says "You're welcome to burn anything up to 20% biodiesel in our Sprinter vans," I'm not going to do it, no matter what well-meaning folks on various Internet forums say.

Regarding biodiesel in Minnesota, I found a citation that says 20% biodiesel is actually required during the summer months. I'd love to be wrong about this, but here's the deal.

Citation: https://www.mda.state.mn.us/environm...sota-biodiesel

Quote:
"B20 in Minnesota
In Minnesota, No. 2 diesel must be blended with at least:
5 percent biodiesel from October 1 to March 31
10 percent biodiesel from April 1 to April 14
20 percent biodiesel from April 15 to September 30"

Also: folks are welcome to buy any van they want to buy. I'm not telling other folks what to do with their money - I'm simply answering the question of what I'd probably do with my money the next time I think about buying a van.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Until MB says "You're welcome to burn anything up to 20% biodiesel in our Sprinter vans," I'm not going to do it, no matter what well-meaning folks on various Internet forums say.

Regarding biodiesel in Minnesota, I found a citation that says 20% biodiesel is actually required during the summer months. I'd love to be wrong about this, but here's the deal.

Citation: https://www.mda.state.mn.us/environm...sota-biodiesel

Quote:
"B20 in Minnesota
In Minnesota, No. 2 diesel must be blended with at least:
5 percent biodiesel from October 1 to March 31
10 percent biodiesel from April 1 to April 14
20 percent biodiesel from April 15 to September 30"

Also: folks are welcome to buy any van they want to buy. I'm not telling other folks what to do with their money - I'm simply answering the question of what I'd probably do with my money the next time I think about buying a van.

That’s what is allowed and desired. I’m saying the suppliers have never supplied over 10% from the last report I read to meet that goal from a production logistics stand point or farmers not supplying to meet that requirement. Still, the point is what is the damage from up to 20% biodiesel when Mercedes Benz is willing to warrant the entire emission system for 5 years and 100,000 miles? I think people worry about something not there and it is mostly in Minnesota so I don’t care because maybe people will stay out and I can get a camping spot.

[joelm]

Facing the same choice last fall, we chose the Transit. Primarily to avoid the diesel and to greatly increase the availability of service centers and to get the AWD. I'd have preferred more clearance, but so far it's been fine. We are dirt roaders, not off roaders. We got everywhere we wanted to in Death Valley and avoided the serious 4WD tracks.

I've never owned a Sprinter, but in test driving, cockpit seems more refined but otherwise, them are pretty comparable. Our 19.5 foot high-roof transit has been super easy to drive. Milage at ~16MPG is not what I'd hoped.

Our conversion was done by Sportsmobile and they installed a Gas Espar furnace and it's been working great. We tested it heavily in the cold last Spring. Non-issue there.

Given what I know, I'd opt again for Transit mostly for service. I like the Sprinter's dash and it's slightly better driving position, but not enough to deal with the sparse dealer network. (Of course many people have been fine with them, so nothing is certain.)

[RobRyan]

In Australia absolutely no problems with Diesel Class B's
Also petrol " gas" engines are not used.
Ford Transit a relatively poor seller, most use other platforms for a Class B, including the Sprinter

[Kswanson]

We have owned a Coachman Crossfit (now called Beyond) build on a Ford Transit for 4 years. The ecoboost engine is awesome power and we get about 16 miles to the gallon. The clearance is low on Transit so you need to keep it on pavement or gravel with only a small number of potholes.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by joelm

I've never owned a Sprinter, but in test driving, cockpit seems more refined but otherwise, them are pretty comparable. Our 19.5 foot high-roof transit has been super easy to drive. Milage at ~16MPG is not what I'd hoped.

Originally Posted by Kswanson

We have owned a Coachman Crossfit (now called Beyond) build on a Ford Transit for 4 years. The ecoboost engine is awesome power and we get about 16 miles to the gallon. The clearance is low on Transit so you need to keep it on pavement or gravel with only a small number of potholes.

Don't knock it. 16 mpg in a class b, especially with the power of the Transit Ecoboost, is pretty freaking good.

[RossWilliams]

I would go with the sprinter. We have put 40000+ miles of the 70000+ on ours and only had one problem when a power steering hose came off in extreme cold.

We like the environmental benefits of low gas mileage, the modern emission system some people complain about has made diesel a better all round environmental choice over gas.

Ours has diesel heat and hot water. Rather than relying on poorly trained and supervised RV mechanics we have discovered we can get them fixed properly because of the truck customer base.

Once the seats are turned around they become part of the living space with the windshield as a giant picture window. I can't compare that to the transit. But I would consider how the space feels both when driving and stopped.

The future is electric. But it is a relatively distant future with a lot of other things in play. Like whether you will be the one driving it or it will drive itself.

[Hatteras Jim]

Have a 2013 Sprinter and would never consider a MB product ever again. Emission system failure does more than "limp home". You get the dreaded "10 Starts left". OK if your home. Not OK if you're touring the country. Try arriving in the UP of Michigan on labor day weekend and get the 10 starts left. Glad we had bicycles.


Got the 10 starts left on 4 separate trips. Next, try to find a MB Sprinter service center in the middle of nowhere. Pull up the MB Sprinter dealership map of the US and take a look. Once you get the 10 (+/-) starts , the fun starts. Try to find a dealer close by, and then, try to get an appointment within 2-3 weeks. Puts a big damper on any trip.


On 4 separate trips, I visited 9 different MB dealerships in 6 states to get 4 sets of NOx sensors.


You sure pass alot of Ford dealers in your quest to find a MB dealer.



Take Avanti's advice.

[ks@yvr]

We have had both gas and diesel class B, gas is easier to work on however we never had any issues with our MB Sprinter and the fuel economy was great at between 21-23 mpg all the time. Currently we have a normally inspired Transit AWD. You can order with dual alternators and we also have a gas Webasto 2000STC heater that takes fuel from the tank. We have nothing hanging from under the van and have not had any clearance issues on FSR’s to date. The Transit has 8” of clearance to MB 12” but you can get a lift kit for the Transit if required. The only challenge with the Transit is it is curved front to back and bottom to top so a little more challenging than MB or Promaster in building out. We have found the normally aspire engine adequate but I would go ecoboost if I were to order and wait for delivery of a van plus my wife would go with the electric sliding door. We have 9550 GVW and come in at 8400 fully loaded with fuel, water, ebikes, fridge, interior conversion, clothes, dog food, paddle boards and kayaks. We carry 150 liters of water included. We got van weighted fully loaded last week.