death to diesel...! ( death by diesel?)

[mkguitar]

With the emissions and the shenanigans committed by major manufacturers and the lack of a price advantage...diesel is not doing so well.

One part of London is going to try charging diesel vehicles an extra 50% to park...ongoing effort to try moving people to cleaner wheels.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...tion-emissions

Some of our B's are based on European models- and if they get re-engineered...so will ours.

Mike

[Viperml]

Not with Trump as president. Trump is going to slash the EPA. He already put a muzzle on them from posting anything on the internet.

[wincrasher]

At first blush, it appears to be contradictory. Tax policy in the UK actually encourages diesel cars over gasoline cars.

Most people drive diesels as it's a lot cheaper.

What the parking fees are trying to do is encourage electric cars in the center. They already charge hefty tolls as it is, but it's very crowded still.

[mlts22]

Rumor has it that Mercedes is going to make a gasser van again in the US. I don't know how true that is, but it is interesting.

[booster]

Now that diesels have emission systems, their costs to drive are not all that less than gassers, which have been getting more and more efficient pretty quickly. I don't think it will be long before the only real difference in mileage will be the amount of the difference in heat capacity of diesel over gas, as the thermal efficiency will be essentially the same.

Perhaps MB is figuring that out, or maybe the US public is losing interest in diesels as the gassers get better.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

Perhaps MB is figuring that out, or maybe the US public is losing interest in diesels as the gassers get better.

IMO, the pertinent factors are fuel and maintenance/repair costs and on both counts it seems like diesel is losing the race. Even the Chevy V8 gets 15-16 while the Mercedes gets, what, 18-19? Assuming fuel cost per gallon to be around the same, you'd have to drive an awful lot of miles to benefit very much. The maintenance/repair contest is a no brainer. The cost for a servicing and a gasser is almost chump change compared to the hosing you get from Mercedes.

[Keyne]

It would be nice if they put the Metris or similar gas engine in the Srpinter body. I would totally buy one over a diesel if it were cheaper.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Keyne

It would be nice if they put the Metris or similar gas engine in the Srpinter body. I would totally buy one over a diesel if it were cheaper.

The Fit RV has done an analysis of the pros and cons of diesels and gassers.

http://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/gas-...d-my-thoughts/

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The Fit RV has done an analysis of the pros and cons of diesels and gassers.

http://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/gas-...d-my-thoughts/

I have seen that info thank you. My issue is I can't fit in the Promaster driver seat and get comfortable. The Sprinter is perfect so a gas Sprinter would be great. Until then it's diesel for us.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Keyne

I have seen that info thank you. My issue is I can't fit in the Promaster driver seat and get comfortable. The Sprinter is perfect so a gas Sprinter would be great. Until then it's diesel for us.

There are a sufficient number of anecdotal reports criticizing the Promaster seats that something is not quite right with them. I know some complaints involved being unable to plant your feet on the floor. What specific flaws did you experience? Is it just the seat and its dimensions or is the positioning of the seat with respect to the steering wheel and pedals also involved? Are the seats in the RV vans structurally and functionally different from those in the standard commercial vans? Does the passenger seat exhibit the same problem?

[mkguitar]

I rented a Citroen Relay version of the Fiat.
assuming the seat, mount geometry etc is same or similar, I had no trouble fitting and being comfy for long hours in city and country driving, a little motorway too. at the time I was 6'1" and about 235. this was a manual tranny so required good pedal control.

no complaints about the pass side seat ( which was on the left side...rt hand drive version)- looking at the pics, these appear just to be "fancy fabric" version of the std seats.



mike

[MsNomer]

The seat adjustments are not totally obvious, but once you get it dialed in, it is quite comfortable. I don't understand this, but the same adjustment in the PM fits both MRNomer and me just fine. Not so in our other vehicles.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The Fit RV has done an analysis of the pros and cons of diesels and gassers.

http://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/gas-...d-my-thoughts/

Thanks for posting, but it appears the fit folks left out a legitimate expense that would be a part of any cash flow analysis, the cost of money.

It seems to me that you buy a Sprinter B for reasons other than cost, period. After that, the reasons to choose a Sprinter B vary a lot with some of them just bs. There are folks here that chose a Sprinter B and the reasons were not bs, rather made good sense.

Bud

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Bud

Thanks for posting, but it appears the fit folks left out a legitimate expense that would be a part of any cash flow analysis, the cost of money.



It seems to me that you buy a Sprinter B for reasons other than cost, period. After that, the reasons to choose a Sprinter B vary a lot with some of them just bs. There are folks here that chose a Sprinter B and the reasons were not bs, rather made good sense.



Bud

I agree with your comments. I bought my Sprinter B-van because of the space. It was the largest van available in 2012. I would have preferred a gas engine, but only diesel was available. I'm tied of hunting for diesel at the pumps. Even in my own neighborhood in Baltimore area the diesel pumps are often empty and I have to hunt for another. Looking for diesel fuel is a waste of my time.


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[Davydd]

I bought Sprinters for the simple reason they satisfied my needs and wants the best three different times. The engine, diesel or gas, never entered into the decision equation. That was just what it was and I had never driven a diesel vehicle before in my life. My prior knowledge of diesel was with very rattlely sounding, smelly pickup trucks and I owned a half dozen pickup trucks which were all gas engines. If the platform had given a choice I might have chosen a gas engine of which I was more familiar. But that is a rather moot point now.

I will say this. Buying a diesel engine turned out in our current B the best solution for totally eliminating propane which I found to be a bigger nuisance. It is hard to beat the Espar diesel-fired system for heat and hot water, IMO.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I will say this. Buying a diesel engine turned out in our current B the best solution for totally eliminating propane which I found to be a bigger nuisance. It is hard to beat the Espar diesel-fired system for heat and hot water, IMO.

That's true if, as in your case, your auxiliary power is from a second alternator/inverter but if the generator offered by the builder is an Onan, don't you end up committed to propane as a practical matter unless you want to pay close to twice the cost for a diesel version? LTV charges around 7k for the diesel option.

Why can't a system like the Espar be designed to be fueled by gasoline? Is it too inherently dangerous for this application?

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Why can't a system like the Espar be designed to be fueled by gasoline? Is it too inherently dangerous for this application?

remember the vw gas heaters?

the flash point of gasoline is too easily reached by accident

Mike

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

remember the vw gas heaters?

the flash point of gasoline is too easily reached by accident

Mike

I do remember that VW and Porsche did provide gas heaters but I don't remember any resulting gruesome stories. Compared to what could be designed today, the technology back then must have been crude. If you can use gasoline as a fuel to power engines despite its relatively low flash point, is a modern design for a heating system still out of the question?

[mojoman]

I have a gasoline heater, Webasto. Works great and very frugal with fuel <1/2liter per hour. I also run a electric water heater. I didn't want to carry any propane so I rely on the van's gas tank to run the heater and generator.

[Davydd]

True enough, I have eliminated the propane Onan generator as well with a second alternator. But eliminating the need for propane for heating and hot water with a diesel-fired system was a direct benefit. I could, as have many, gotten by with no Onan generator. The second alternator just makes it possible to go off shore power all the time if one desires and you don't have to fire up (idling) in a campground if you have adequate high battery capacity. Then if you have high battery capacity I doubt you can get by with just shore power and generator without a lot of pre-planning mental gymnastics while on the road.

I don't have any answers in regard to gasoline heating and hot water systems. I have little knowledge. Gasoline Bs do utilize gasoline for the Onan generators. However, with a second alternator I've eliminated one other major maintenance source, that Onan. I've had two different second alternators, the Nations that Roadtrek installs and other people have used and now a much larger Delco-Remy. To me there is no comparison in performance and from what has been said, the Delco is too big to install in a Promaster so that is another positive for the Sprinter. I don't know about the Ford Transit capability.

Edit. BTW, It is my understanding Advanced RV has only built one B with an Onan generator and that was back when they started in 2012. They adopted the second alternator as standard pretty early on.