Custom Van Builder - what to consider

[Bearkeley]

We've been researching and planning for years and have decided 2025 is when we will hit the road. Based on what we want, we realized a custom van is the best way to go for us. So next step, is to find the right company....and there's so many of them, with build prices all over the place.

For those who have done it, or like us, still in the planning stage, can you please share your insight and experience to help us select the right company? We realize things like experience (how many builds), customer service (how responsive and good are they with follow thru), reputation (talk to past customers) and quality (see a 2+ year old conversion) are essentials. However, what about all the other area specific to building a van?

How important is RVIA certification? Do they have to be a 'master upfitter' for warranty and insurance? Do they need to be an authorized installer for the components?

How about price? With manufacturers offering big rebates (15k off storyteller now for example), and demand projecting continued softening, is it ok to negotiate with builders? If so, how do you evaluate fair price?

Other things to think about, like insurance - key things a van should have to minimize cost of insurance. Should /can we buy/store/register the van in a specific state to minimize tax and insurance?

Thank you!

[GeorgeRa]

We went through this process in 2013, the market was different then. Today there are indeed many options. Our choice was to build our own but we had specific desires was to duplicate layout of the previously owned 2 Westfalia VWs. The closest for us was Canadian Company – Safari Condo but they were 3 thousand miles away and purchase was very complex. Local folks suffer in either quality or price gouging extravagance like Outside Vans.
What helped us to make the final decision was the specific wants and layouts plan on the paper. We started to search with these documented goals:
1. Under 20’
2. Layout à la Westfalia
3. Windows 360
4. No shower or foldable cabin like Safari Condo
5. Toilet
6. Hot/cold water
7. Heating
8. No AC
9. Large solar panels
10. Rock&roll sofa bed
I opted to use aluminum profiles structure from 80/20 company with Seaboard HDPE fillers, van is fully insulated with Thinsulate, we opted to use a controversial on this forum cassette toilet with most folks who have them like them and folks who don’t, hate them.
Would I do it again – likely yes. This time I would choose Fiat (Promaster, Fiat owns the camper van market in Europe), space and water heating with LPG. Every once a while we regret not getting a maximum 16’ long Airstream or Fiberglass trailer in lieu of the camper van, but not very often.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Bearkeley

We've been researching and planning for years and have decided 2025 is when we will hit the road. Based on what we want, we realized a custom van is the best way to go for us. So next step, is to find the right company....and there's so many of them, with build prices all over the place.

For those who have done it, or like us, still in the planning stage, can you please share your insight and experience to help us select the right company? We realize things like experience (how many builds), customer service (how responsive and good are they with follow thru), reputation (talk to past customers) and quality (see a 2+ year old conversion) are essentials. However, what about all the other area specific to building a van?

We had a high-end fully-custom build done two years ago. You can read about it here:
https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...rig-12765.html

Not only are there many custom upfitters, there are many kinds of them. Most of them know one platform and either will refuse to work with another one or will not do a very good job if they do. Also, they vary a lot on what exactly they mean by "custom." Many have a base model that they will tweak (a little or a lot). Others have a list of options that you can assemble as you like. Again, only a few will start from a clean slate. This is not to say that the "pick from a menu" option is necessarily bad. Unless you know EXACTLY what you want to accomplish and have significant experience, a clean-slate design will prove to be a significant challenge, and in any even will be a LOT of work. I wouldn't even consider it if this were my first RV.

How important is RVIA certification?

Meh. Basically the only ones who care are certain high-brow RV campground "clubs". Not our cup of tea, so for us it had zero value. This is not to say that building to RVIA standards isn't a good idea, it certainly is. But whether an upfitter chooses to pay the annual "protection" fee is another matter.

Do they have to be a 'master upfitter' for warranty and insurance?

No.

Do they need to be an authorized installer for the components?

No.

For both of these questions, please note that almost all such "tie in" requirements to validate an OEM warranty are against federal law. Lots of folks will tell you otherwise, but it just ain't so.

How about price? With manufacturers offering big rebates (15k off storyteller now for example), and demand projecting continued softening, is it ok to negotiate with builders? If so, how do you evaluate fair price?

A quality custom job will certainly cost you more, all things being equal. Mass manufacturers can amortize many fixed costs across many units. With a true custom job, they have to charge for almost everything.

Other things to think about, like insurance - key things a van should have to minimize cost of insurance.

Dunno. In the grand scheme of things, insurance was the least of our worries. I suppose that since custom rigs will cost more, they will tend to cost more to insure, again: all else being equal.

Should /can we buy/store/register the van in a specific state to minimize tax and insurance?

Your state of residence will almost always determine where you may register and insure your rig. Only a few allow out-of-state registration. Yes, I know about the "renegade" states. In all likelihood, they are illegal in most states of residence.

[Bearkeley]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

We went through this process in 2013, the market was different then. Today there are indeed many options. Our choice was to build our own but we had specific desires was to duplicate layout of the previously owned 2 Westfalia VWs. The closest for us was Canadian Company – Safari Condo but they were 3 thousand miles away and purchase was very complex. Local folks suffer in either quality or price gouging extravagance like Outside Vans.
What helped us to make the final decision was the specific wants and layouts plan on the paper. We started to search with these documented goals:
1. Under 20’
2. Layout à la Westfalia
3. Windows 360
4. No shower or foldable cabin like Safari Condo
5. Toilet
6. Hot/cold water
7. Heating
8. No AC
9. Large solar panels
10. Rock&roll sofa bed
I opted to use aluminum profiles structure from 80/20 company with Seaboard HDPE fillers, van is fully insulated with Thinsulate, we opted to use a controversial on this forum cassette toilet with most folks who have them like them and folks who don’t, hate them.
Would I do it again – likely yes. This time I would choose Fiat (Promaster, Fiat owns the camper van market in Europe), space and water heating with LPG. Every once a while we regret not getting a maximum 16’ long Airstream or Fiberglass trailer in lieu of the camper van, but not very often.

Nice van! Love all your windows. Yeah we've been all over the map regarding toilets, but finally found the one we both prefer.

[Bearkeley]

Wow thanks for the detailed reply and sharing the link to your build. You certainly put a lot of thought into it.

[Hatteras Jim]

My wife and I built our b on a sprinter chassis in 2013. Base price for the high roof, extended cargo van in 2013 was 45k. Additions (Heat pump, roof vent, electric cooktop, water heater, cassette toilet, aluminum bed frame, electronics, refrigerator, stereo, gps, TV, sound damping material, insulation and panels) came to 15k. So we have a fully functional van at 60k when new sprinter builds were selling for 120k. Only regret is that we went with Mecedes diesel. Had way too many issues with it and it left us disabled more than enough times.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Hatteras Jim

My wife and I built our b on a sprinter chassis in 2013. Base price for the high roof, extended cargo van in 2013 was 45k. Additions (Heat pump, roof vent, electric cooktop, water heater, cassette toilet, aluminum bed frame, electronics, refrigerator, stereo, gps, TV, sound damping material, insulation and panels) came to 15k. So we have a fully functional van at 60k when new sprinter builds were selling for 120k. Only regret is that we went with Mecedes diesel. Had way too many issues with it and it left us disabled more than enough times.

In 2013 the only van high roof options were Sprinter or Nissan, we also chose the Sprinter. Our DIY conversion price was similar to yours.

[Hatteras Jim]

One more thing. Our van was first registered as a cargo van $$$$ in NC. NC had a list of 5 or 6 items that needed to be in a van so that it could be re-registered as a "Motor Home" $$. I believe that out of those items, you only needed 3 installed at that time. Once I had the sink, toilet and refrigerator mounted, I took it back to the DMV and the guy took photos and submitted the paperwork. My wife and I looked at quite a few b's and they were all lacking what we thought were essentials. My wife wanted a permanent bed; not something that had to be made up each night. I wanted storage space, no propane and all electric. The solution to bed and storage was a frame made out of 80/20 aluminum rails, elevated at 20" above the floor. Plenty of storage, accessible from inside or outside. I love our build. I just hate MB.

[RossWilliams]

We don't have a custom coach but here are some thoughts based on our experience. If you are an experienced RV user you may have a clear id of what's important to you. But if not, you may not know how you will really use it. I would rent several different coaches with different configurations to try them out. Everything from storage to leveling to cooking surface to dining options to lighting to the location of appliances to the awning ... For instance, my wife needs a stool to even see stuff in the back of the overhead cabinets. That is a minor annoyance, at least for me, but there are lots of things where we don't use the coach the way we anticipated.

Be wary of "small restaurant syndrome". There are a lot of people who got into the business during covid. They may have started out with experienced staff and careful attention to details for a small number of production units. The experienced staff may have left, moved up or there might not be enough of them.

Without certifications, you have no way of knowing whether things have been properly installed. The certification doesn't guarantee it either, but it tells you they at least know how they are supposed to do stuff. And its more likely the original manufacturer will stand behind the warranty without you proving in court that it was their fault and not the installer's.

As for price, I would decide on what you want to spend and then negotiate the build elements based on that. It gives your up-fitter a budget. "Fair" really has nothing to do with price. The upfitter has a minimum price they need to charge to make money, they have production capacity that limits how many coaches they can build and they have a market that determines how many they can sell. There is no way for you to really know what those numbers are for the folks you are dealing with. If you give them a budget and specs they can tell you what they can produce for that price. If you are clear that you are shopping around, they will likely give you their best offer or close to it.

When looking at the various components you might want to consider whether they will still be serviceable in a few years. I think its likely Dometic refrigerators will still be around, but maybe not a smaller brand regardless of the quality. Same with stovetops, microwaves, furnaces, water heaters, generators etc. The chassis for that matter.

I assume resale value if not an issue. But if it is you may want to see if you can find used versions of an up-fitter that are for sale. That is likely going to be tough for small operations but it would also give you a chance to talk to someone who has experience and it may give you a better handle on what prices are like.

Be cautious with reputation and remember there are a lot of people around the interenet who are paid "influencers". We bought our Roadtrek from a Johnson Brothers in Minneapolis. They had a good reputation and we had a good purchase experience. Talked to the service manager who was very knowledgeable.

When we took it back in for service, the only person still there was the sales person. The service personnel were incompetent in the extreme. We got our van back after they had it for several weeks. There were tools left in the closet, screws on the floor and nothing that was supposed to be fixed was actually working. When we brought it back they just shrugged their shoulders. The new furnace fan they installed and was making a racket stopped with a thud during our next trip. We took it to a licensed furnace repair place and there was nothing wrong with the fan. It had fallen off because it wasn't bolted on.There were a bunch of other things done improperly that required additional repair. In addition, when we finally got someone to fix the new macerator they had installed, the shop found that the connection to the macerator had been cracked when replacement macerator was installed.

In short, you need to realize that RV's are not manufactured, they are built. Your builder is not likely going to take much responsibility for stuff that breaks down the road. When your refrigerator stops working they may or may not be able to help you. Like any home builder, they are in the business of building things not servicing them.

That is not an upfitter issue, its true for all RV's. A lot of people have attributed Roadtrek's bankruptcy a few years ago to their generous 6 year warranty on all their parts and service. Thor took one look at that as part of their purchase of Hymer and wanted nothing to do with it. I doubt that is the whole story, but no one else in the business is offering that kind of assurance.