Custom Builder

[Rlum]

Hi:

I am looking for a possible custom builder. Prefer someone using 80/20 aluminum framing, a gas heater, antifreeze hot water exchange, well insulated or capable of 4season(all tanks inside) on new 2023 Ford transit 4wd. 630 Ah lithium with a 3000 watt inverter and Ford second alternator.

Can you refer someone really good? I live in Southern California so would like someone local? Am willingly to work with out of state company/person if they are a good fit.

Any suggestions?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Rlum

Hi:

I am looking for a possible custom builder. Prefer someone using 80/20 aluminum framing, a gas heater, antifreeze hot water exchange, well insulated or capable of 4season(all tanks inside) on new 2023 Ford transit 4wd. 630 Ah lithium with a 3000 watt inverter and Ford second alternator.

Can you refer someone really good? I live in Southern California so would like someone local? Am willingly to work with out of state company/person if they are a good fit.

Any suggestions?

Over the years I have seen some good conversions with 80/20 and not so good. I suggest to pay attention to following points in the builder selection process.

1. Weight, framing in 80/20 allows building strong and light weight structures. A lot of folks build very strong frames, unfortunately many don’t pay attention to well engineered strength at low weight. There is a fellow converter making great videos advertising his business based on 80/20 conversions, unfortunately his work exemplifies lack of engineering attention to weight. His woodworking capability is great, he could do better staying away from 80/20.

2. Insulation and aluminum. A lot of folks pay a lot of attention insulating their vans, but some bolt their aluminum profiles directly to van chassis. Aluminum conducts heat very well and 80/20 frames can completely defeat any good insulation. Thermal breaks should be deployed between chassis and frames. “Graphite Dave” (Dave Orton) from the Sprinter forum, a pioneer of 80/20 in van conversion often made the point of thermal breaks.
You could contact Dave, he lives north of SF, perhaps he can help you to find a builder. He sold his Sprinter and converted new Transit.

Good luck.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Over the years I have seen some good conversions with 80/20 and not so good. I suggest to pay attention to following points in the builder selection process.

1. Weight, framing in 80/20 allows building strong and light weight structures. A lot of folks build very strong frames, unfortunately many don’t pay attention to well engineered strength at low weight. There is a fellow converter making great videos advertising his business based on 80/20 conversions, unfortunately his work exemplifies lack of engineering attention to weight. His woodworking capability is great, he could do better staying away from 80/20.

2. Insulation and aluminum. A lot of folks pay a lot of attention insulating their vans, but some bolt their aluminum profiles directly to van chassis. Aluminum conducts heat very well and 80/20 frames can completely defeat any good insulation. Thermal breaks should be deployed between chassis and frames. “Graphite Dave” (Dave Orton) from the Sprinter forum, a pioneer of 80/20 in van conversion often made the point of thermal breaks.
You could contact Dave, he lives north of SF, perhaps he can help you to find a builder. He sold his Sprinter and converted new Transit.

Good luck.

Thanks very great advice. Would you elaborate on #1.? I think I know who you are referring to? What do you mean by engineering detail to weight with 80/20 aluminum?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Rlum

Thanks very great advice. Would you elaborate on #1.? I think I know who you are referring to? What do you mean by engineering detail to weight with 80/20 aluminum?

Using 80/20 profiles allows to achieve strength to weight ratio better than just plywood or hardwood construction. For example, a galley, it should be based on strong skeleton from series 10 (1 inch) or 15 (1.5 inch) and low weight filler panels for décor or cargo containment. Using anchor fasteners would be an indicator of high strength to weight ratio design. These connectors limit flexibility for future changes and require a mill or factory machining.

A good question for a builder would be related to cutting 80/20 profiles, do they cut or order precut from a factory. If they ordered machined material there is a chance, they did some strength calculation based on their CAD drawings. In my build almost 100% of 80/20 profiles were machined at the factory.

Sportsmobile has a conversion van using less expensive 80/20 profile “Quick Frame”. That is much weaker profile than T-slot ones but works. They could be using side panels as structural elements not needed with T-slot profiles.

The attached picture shows a “factor 10” overdesigned, ridiculously overdesigned.

Anchor fastener

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYz1US091ts

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Using 80/20 profiles allows to achieve strength to weight ratio better than just plywood or hardwood construction. For example, a galley, it should be based on strong skeleton from series 10 (1 inch) or 15 (1.5 inch) and low weight filler panels for décor or cargo containment. Using anchor fasteners would be an indicator of high strength to weight ratio design. These connectors limit flexibility for future changes and require a mill or factory machining.

A good question for a builder would be related to cutting 80/20 profiles, do they cut or order precut from a factory. If they ordered machined material there is a chance, they did some strength calculation based on their CAD drawings. In my build almost 100% of 80/20 profiles were machined at the factory.

Sportsmobile has a conversion van using less expensive 80/20 profile “Quick Frame”. That is much weaker profile than T-slot ones but works. They could be using side panels as structural elements not needed with T-slot profiles.

The attached picture shows a “factor 10” overdesigned, ridiculously overdesigned.

Anchor fastener

I watched Dave Orton's videos. I don't do much city camping. It is good reference though!

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Rlum

I watched Dave Orton's videos. I don't do much city camping. It is good reference though!

City camping is not my cup of tea as well, but Dave is a very good resource. I not alway agree with his technical views but Sprinter forum benefited a lot from him.

[N147JK]

Seems like that kind of material is meant for simple DIY construction. If I were going to pay very big bucks to have a "custom" van built out, I would want better materials and construction techniques used.

[booster]

Originally Posted by N147JK

Seems like that kind of material is meant for simple DIY construction. If I were going to pay very big bucks to have a "custom" van built out, I would want better materials and construction techniques used.

Lots of custom built machinery that was traditionally built on welded steel tubing frames has switched to 80-20. Places I worked over the years had them both ways and both worked fine.


Depending on the equipment one big thing in favor of the 80-20 was the no rusting properties compared to steel.


Shorter lead times compared to welded was also quite common.

[Punkinhead]

Originally Posted by N147JK

Seems like that kind of material is meant for simple DIY construction. If I were going to pay very big bucks to have a "custom" van built out, I would want better materials and construction techniques used.

I've used miles of aluminum extrusion professionally in custom machine designs over the years and it's what big chunks of industry use nowadays. It has mostly displaced weldments. It's relatively inexpensive, good bending and torsional strength for its weight, and allows for very quick and easy assembly.

Using plain square or rectangular weldments in an RV would be about 20% lighter but would add a ton of cost in manufacturing. And the weight reduction would only be for the framing members. It's really only an option in higher volume where welding could be done quickly in dedicated fixtures.

Every distributor to the factory automation industry carries aluminum extrusions. It's not a DIY only material.

[GeorgeRa]

The major benefit of 80/20 - staple guns inhibitor.

[GeorgeRa]

Someone just posted this video on the Sprinter Forum. It is a very good explanation how to use IKEA cabinet fronts with European hinges to completely cover aluminum 80/20 series 15 framing. Could be interesting for folks preferring wood décor versus aluminum and plastics. My preference is to use Souhtco M1 latches to prevent possible opening on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IHJE7eONk0

[rtbill]

Have you looked at a Winnebago Ekko? Ticks all your boxes except perhaps for construction quality. Indications are quality of the '23s is improved.