Custom 2017 Hymer Aktiv on order

[Davydd]

I believe Advanced RV has had Canadian customers. I would just assume they would have to buy the Sprinter from a Canadian source and follow any Canadian laws in converting it for a Canadian customer.

[Roxy4x4]

Originally Posted by Cannuck

US buyers have a lot more options. If I could get my deposit back I likely would have cancelled. I do like the Roadtrek Zion features and layout. Roadtrek has had 2 years to sort their problems. it appears they have a ways to go. If I could chose from among the US options, I likely would have gravitated to something like Advanced RV.

The price between those units (between the RT and the Advanced RV) I suspect is substantial.

Why did you not like PW?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Cannuck

I had also asked if the microwave could be swapped for a convection oven. Given no convection oven will fit in the existing hole, and RoadTrek won't customize cabinets, the answer again was NO.

Thanks for the heads up regarding this. Apparently it's model specific. The 190PC and the Zion have the smaller microwave only ovens while the 210PC and the Sprinter model have the bigger combination units.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Cannuck
I had also asked if the microwave could be swapped for a convection oven. Given no convection oven will fit in the existing hole, and RoadTrek won't customize cabinets, the answer again was NO.

Of course the answer is NO.

HOw could they give it to you?

Have you seen the actual RV?
Have you looked at the space?
Have you measured the cabinet?

To give you the larger convection oven means to:
1. make a custom cabinet (time and money)
2. make a custom mount (may or may not work)
2a. the custom mount must go through engineering dept testing and approval
Have you seen the difference between your unit and one with a convection?
Do you know the ventilation requirements for the convection?
3. make a custom wiring harness (thicker cable to support the convection)
4. support this oddball in warranty claim, which might cost more than what they can charge you for the cabinet!!!

What if this one-of-a-kind cabinet falls off while you were on the road and injured someone???
What if the convection stopped working? how do you expect them to support you? Will the telephone tech know how the wiring is done?

If you really want a convection microwave oven,
you can take delivery of the RV first,
then make a bracket yourself to mount the oven of your choice.
I guarantee you it will cost less than an RT custom job.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Cannuck
I had also asked if the microwave could be swapped for a convection oven. Given no convection oven will fit in the existing hole, and RoadTrek won't customize cabinets, the answer again was NO.

One explanation I read is that there is a minimum distance requirement between the stove top and the bottom of the overhead cabinet. The convection oven being taller, would not provide the needed clearance.

[Roxy4x4]

Originally Posted by BBQ

One explanation I read is that there is a minimum distance requirement between the stove top and the bottom of the overhead cabinet. The convection oven being taller, would not provide the needed clearance.

I suspect that is right. I have been told by different manufacturers that convection ovens need more clearance for fire related safety reasons than a microwave.

[StaciJames]

Hello beautiful van-loving people!
I have cancelled the Hymer build.
I am sad, but also very relieved. I feel like I've dodged a bullet.

Jim immediately refunded my deposit. It's actually the most responsive he's been throughout this whole process. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to build this van. Though I’m not sure why he struck the deal in the first place.

I wish I knew what happened here. It is not a case of just over-promising and realizing he can't deliver- he's too experienced and too smart for that. And it can’t be as simple as just wanting the sale. While I get that argument in general, that is only a function of a lower level sales person which he is not, he's a CEO. I never would have done this deal with a dealer or a salesperson. I only would have inked a custom deal with someone empowered to make it happen. Like the the CEO. Not so in this case.

The best reason I can come up with is that he has a substantial bonus hinged on North American sales to get Hymer off the ground, and maybe that bonus is NOT tied to actual delivery of product. Or some version of this. Maybe some golden parachute situation is in his near future. I asked him outright during our negotiations (a total of 5 hours spent over 3 days) what his contract stated during the Hymer take-over and he said it is in the contract that they couldn't get rid of him for a period of time (I think I remember him saying a year).

The fact that the build was late was the least of my concerns. What made me pull out was:
1) The almost total silence during the 11 weeks of build time.
2) The delivery date came and went without so much as a peep from anyone at Hymer.
3) The lack of professionalism shown to me when I inquired on the status of the build (if I was responded to at all it was mostly in the general context of 'take a breath, I know how to make vans').
4) The fact that although I made contact with four Roadtrek/Hymer employees (after the delivery date passed) who agreed to check on my build and call me, he cut them all off at the pass before we could get on the phone. In fact, at no point was I granted a single live conversation with anyone despite several requests.
5) In the last 3 weeks, when communication increased (after the delivery date had passed), Ludwig Vetter (Chairman of the Board of Erwin Hymer) who was cc'd on our troubled communications and also on my cancellation request; remained silent throughout. This gave me no confidence that this company is heading in the right direction any time soon.
6) The sound advice from this crew to pull out.
7) The horror stories on social media of RT and Hymer vans that were delayed and delayed and delayed again, and the worst; the stories of year-long saga’s of unusable brand new RoadTrek’s:
Lorna Brodie's 1/2/17 FB post on the (thankfully blessedly uncensored) Roadtrek & Hymer's Owners Group and the Roadtrek-centered gripe session that followed in the comments section of her post (65+ comments in the first 24 hours alone), or this poor blessed soul who is blogging on his ongoing year-long headache with an unusable new Roadtrek on Class B Warned – Well, This Hasn't Gone Well

All of this eventually helped make this decision an extremely easy one.

At any rate, whatever it is, it is no longer my problem.

I’m either going to move forward on what I was originally going to buy, a 2017 PW Lexor (beautiful inside, quality build, good company, 285 watt solar + 2000 watt inverter but probably the worst choice for cold weather which I would like to be able to do- though not critical) or a Travato G (less expensive, has my desired 2nd row work/eating space and by far the best, most helpful group on FB but a really uninspiring interior, smaller bed, lower-tech).

I want it to be as plug and play with the most comfort and connectivity possible. I know that if buying a camper van is anything, it is an exercise in extreme compromise, but I’m not up for a project and I want to limit after-market adds.

I welcome your thoughts and appreciate the direction this group has provided thus far. Thanks for the advice you have given- I gave it a great deal of weight.

Hugs, Staci
-----
Roadtreking & Class B Enthusiasts (Uncensored) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/746738498808477/

[Roxy4x4]

Well I have to think you made the right decision. There’s been too many similar stories and RT technology issues to not sit up and take note. Regardless of purchasing a PW or WB I think you will find both the companies and FB groups to be very helpful. I know when someone posts on the PW FB or Yahoo site, people are often answering the questions within seconds/minutes. Good luck and keep us posted.

[sheral]

Hey Staci

It is obvious from your detailed post that you have taken the time to look at the delay from all angles. You have made a sound decision

I think I mentioned to you once that when I now make a large purchase, often the company’s reputation is more important to me than the ‘perfect fit’ of the product. I would rather make a compromise on my terms with my toy than be ignored or have to fight with a company that has less than stellar customer service and QC.

Al

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by StaciJames

Hello beautiful van-loving people!
I have cancelled the Hymer build.

I wish I knew what happened here. It is not a case of just over-promising and not realizing he can't deliver- he's too experienced and too smart for that. And it can’t be as simple as just wanting the sale. While I get that argument in general, that is only a function of a lower level sales person which he is not, he's a CEO. I never would have done this deal with a dealer or a salesperson. I only would have inked that deal with someone empowered to make it happen. Usually that is the CEO. But not in this case.

While there is always more than one side to a story, it is a sad commentary that you could not purchase the vehicle you wanted after negotiating with the CEO of the NA division of Erwin Hymer.

With any merger / acquisition, there are many things most of us will never know about a 'merger of similar company cultures'. The bottom line will always be the EHG will do whatever it takes to be successful in NA and will make any set of changes (operations, staffing, etc.) to ensure success in the long-run and protect their brand reputation.

Timing is everything and unfortunately your order may be a symptom of bigger issues happening within the EHG. Thanks for sharing your story.

[talktodean]

The RoadTrek Brand will disappear, simply because it isn't Hymer. Hymer wants to rule NA, so the best place to start is by out the Big Class B guy, then take them to the floor, by proliferating Hymer across NA. It's all about brand dominance. No different than a Mercedes, BMW, or a Hyundai coming to NA. Roadtrek can no longer be what it was, if in fact it was as special as consumers believed. They did the lead the way on many fronts, that's why they had a big bulls eye on their coaches. And they weren't big enough, where the Hymer's of the world, saw them as an easy, low priced acquisition.
All you have to do is look at an MSRP on a RoadTrek Coach to see the reality, Erwin Hymer Group, NA. They will probably close all operations in Canada, and be south entirely. In this transition period, and fairly lengthy it will be, I can't imagine RT is being a first choice for consumers. Just my opinion, and strictly from a business position. Hec, I don't even own any coach yet, because all this crap has scared, or made my choice process, all the more cautious. I think the yellow flag is out on the track, for now. I would imagine there is actually huge opportunity for state side manufacturers right now to seize opportunities, built on more solid business platforms.
The German's especially, and not unlike many others, think they know way better. May the best B Class Coach Brand win. What all companies will have to get, best of anything will have to be a perpetual daily commitment to innovation, functionality, purpose, technology, quality, price/value relationship, service, and ultimate unquestionable consumer experience. You can't have "off" days. Happy, safe 2017, and enjoy your RV exploration & travels this year. Dean, ABQ, NM

[NorthPotomac]

Staci, I think you made the right choice.

For many of the same reasons you cite, our search has focused on Pleasure-Way. We are undecided between the Ascent and the Lexor but will figure that out in the next 60 days or so.

This forum and related ones (on Facebook) have proven to be incredibly valuable to me.

Best of luck with your new choice. Let us see a picture once you've bought it!

[ClassB4Me]

Originally Posted by talktodean

The RoadTrek Brand will disappear, simply because it isn't Hymer.

All you have to do is look at an MSRP on a RoadTrek Coach to see the reality, Erwin Hymer Group, NA. They will probably close all operations in Canada, and be south entirely. In this transition period, and fairly lengthy it will be, I can't imagine RT is being a first choice for consumers. Just my opinion, and strictly from a business position.

The German's especially, and not unlike many others, think they know way better. May the best B Class Coach Brand win.

Dean

Is this Dean from Leisure Travel Vans in Canada?

[cshetl]

Originally Posted by Roxy4x4

The price between those units (between the RT and the Advanced RV) I suspect is substantial.

Why did you not like PW?

Just tangentially related to PW and Advanced RV and new tech... I love the PW FL. And Ascent. But, I just purchased a 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE. It's beautiful, and is the template that Advanced RV used for it's Ocean One. It has the most storage I've seen in a B because you can use the entire underneath of the tri fold sofa for storage. It has a SLIDING SCREEN DOOR that just now LTV I believe added and is making a big deal over on it's '17 Serenity video. It has a SHOWER that is a lot less clautrophobic than the one in the LTV Twin Bed(!), not to mention any other class B I have been in —*at 6'1" I can use it no problem. It has pretty cool partitions so the front can be a separate "living area", if you will, from the back — some can take or leave it, I think it's a cool thing to have. It has the same size fridge as the CS Adventurous, so BIG. It has the Espar diesel heating system. Has wifi-booster. Interior is beautiful (the "modern" option). Has the desk area up front like the PW FL which is a great feature of that PW model. Has convection microwave. Outside is very clean with less vents etc. It doesn't have lithium, or voltstart. But, that's about it. Oh, and lane assist/blind spot which is for sure nice. But ... I paid a whole lot less than a new CS Adventurous would cost. And much much more again less than an Ocean One at a quarter million in scratch. I'm going to have the counters redone with nicer patterned Corian, and a little more solar added.

People on one FB forum, when I asked thoughts on this, were telling me it's not worth it to get a used one and do things to it, the tech can't be upgraded, just get a new one or pass on this because it's an "orphan" or really low ball or walk. I disagreed. I think I paid a fair price and the more I read about issues with NEW vans and — as of now — somewhat finicky and expensive tech... the better I feel.

I think these are great floor plans. I am surprised they made the bad business decisions that landed them in bankruptcy. I think this would sell well today if they could come back with their administrative act together.

[avanti]

@cshetl,
Your van sounds beautiful. There seem to still be a few new and almost new Legends around. I agree that they are potentially great opportunities for anyone willing to go it without factory warranty (which is worth only a few thousand dollars at most in any event). GWV's demise definitely left a big hole in the B-van space. I am grateful that we got our Legend while the getting was good. I am honestly not sure what I would buy today, for all the reasons you mentioned.

The idea that the tech on these vans can't be upgraded is nonsense, as I think I have adequately demonstrated in our van. Where we are now with our Legend, I honestly believe that we have 90% of an ARV at less than 50% of the price. Of course, I put a lot of work into the upgrades, which isn't an option for everybody. Great fun for me, though.

How about some pics?

[cshetl]

Will do!

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by StaciJames

Hello beautiful van-loving people!
I have cancelled the Hymer build.
I am sad, but also very relieved. I feel like I've dodged a bullet.
::

I bet Jim is more relieved than you are.

[Bruceper]

Originally Posted by talktodean

No different than a Mercedes, BMW, or a Hyundai coming to NA.

Fun fact - When Hyundai came to North America they came cheap with very little support. Every Hyundai Pony came with a tool kit in the glove compartment to fix your new car.

History somewhat repeated itself with Kia, they came in cheap in had dealerships in parking lots with portable trailers as the sales office.

They've both come a long way since then.

[gerrym51]

I'm coming to this thread late. As usual it seems roadtrek has not changed.

However many people get satisfactory results. Many people do not.

Since i don't have the actual numbers available to me -i can't say.

Most issues still seem to involve ECOTREK

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

I'm coming to this thread late. As usual it seems roadtrek has not changed.

However many people get satisfactory results. Many people do not.

Since i don't have the actual numbers available to me -i can't say.

Most issues still seem to involve ECOTREK

In 2014-2015 when Ecotrek was introduced there were owner cockpit errors caused by inadequate dealer orientation (e.g. inverter always left on) plus system problems principally caused by their lithium battery management system(s) parasitic loads shutting down the battery(s) leaving them without any recharge path from the alternator or shore power. But apparently these problems have been addressed in current production. Our 2017 800ECO seems to behave the way it's supposed to. More time, of course, will tell.