Custom 2017 Hymer Aktiv on order

[Davydd]

Didn't Hymer make Jim Hammill the CEO of their North American operations? Why would he he need approval of Europe?

[NorthPotomac]

Since Hymer now owns Roadtrek (not sure if that was the case when The Fit RV did that video in 2015), it's not really contract manufacturing any more.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Nothing is as simple as you thought.

listen to this...
https://youtu.be/8ByxBOA1Pys?t=2m8s

It is a contract manufacturing arrangement.

That video is dated December 3, 2015 and was accurate on that date. BUT, less than 3 months later, Hymer acquired Roadtrek on February 23, 2016. Roadtrek is now just another brand of the Erwin Hymer Group, albeit the sole North American brand.

[BBQ]

.

Arh... ok. This is history.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Didn't Hymer make Jim Hammill the CEO of their North American operations? Why would he he need approval of Europe?

Yes, he is CEO and President of North America, but even then, he still probably reports to Martin Brandt, the CEO of Erwin Hymer Group. I am pretty sure he has his "marching orders" that follow a strategic plan from EHG and he just cannot do whatever he pleases.

[Roxy4x4]

Originally Posted by BobB

Yes, he is CEO and President of North America, but even then, he still probably reports to Martin Brandt, the CEO of Erwin Hymer Group. I am pretty sure he has his "marching orders" that follow a strategic plan from EHG and he just cannot do whatever he pleases.

Speaking with Jim on several occasions and knowing a bit about him suggests to me that he may march to his own drummer, regardless what reality may be. hahaha.

[Roxy4x4]

Originally Posted by angelmroman

I exchanged emails with Jim H during the Pomona Show, same Timeframe as STACIJAMES. The above "build" was to be done on one of the RT Promaster Models. The Truma Combi is standard on the AKTIV, probably soon to be standard on the RTs. The more I thought about my request, the more uneasy I became with the whole idea. In the end, I didn't want to be a "prototype" for future builds. I chose to walk away. STACIJAMES is seeing the consequences of their decision to pursue a Custom Build. I sincerely hope they receive the RV they want without any more drama. Happy New Year Everyone

Yes I was considering going down that road too. However I caught myself as discussions ‘just sounded too good to be true.’ It’s so easy to get caught up in the moment especially when it seems you are saving thousands of dollars. Guess I needed to look back on their track record to remember that sales are often more important to them than putting out tested / dependable products / technology. Quality control and customer satisfaction may not make you rich today but it translates into a better business model, imho. Happy New Year!

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by BobB

Yes, he is CEO and President of North America, but even then, he still probably reports to Martin Brandt, the CEO of Erwin Hymer Group. I am pretty sure he has his "marching orders" that follow a strategic plan from EHG and he just cannot do whatever he pleases.

Hammill was retained I suspect not for just to be a good custodian following "marching orders" but for his knowledge of the market and his innovation tendencies. A smart company would not muzzle that under those circumstances.

[StaciJames]

Originally Posted by BobB

Yes, he is CEO and President of North America, but even then, he still probably reports to Martin Brandt, the CEO of Erwin Hymer Group. I am pretty sure he has his "marching orders" that follow a strategic plan from EHG and he just cannot do whatever he pleases.

My understanding is that Jim reports to the Board of Directors and Ludwig Vetter is the Chairman of the Board

[Cannuck]

While investigating the 2017 Zion, I had asked RoadTrek if they could support some water line heat tracing in support of 4 season use. In the Zion, there is only 1 pressure water line below floor. After waiting weeks for an answer, the answer was NO. I had also asked if the microwave could be swapped for a convection oven. Given no convection oven will fit in the existing hole, and RoadTrek won't customize cabinets, the answer again was NO.

I took a day off work and went on the factory tour to see the plumbing in a Zion and pickup the plumbing drawing which was supposed to be waiting for me when I arrived for the tour. No drawing was waiting. I did manage to see a Zion with the plumbing exposed. Not much to it really, and knowing where the lines were and where the access points would be, it gave me confidence that I could customize it to my purposes after purchase. When I asked for the plumbing drawing, engineering refused to provide a copy saying it was proprietary. Ground my teeth a little on that one as I was told this as if I was stupid to have even asked.

A few runs of PEX that I could have installed in a couple hours is proprietary? If RoadTrek are so inflexible about sharing basic support info like this, no wonder people are having challenges dealing with emerging issues on their own.

I purchased the 2017 Roadtrek Zion a couple days later - perhaps a bit too quickly.

Within 12 hours of my purchase, I made one more customization request - could they install a Truma water heater instead of the standard Girard heater - which has terrible reviews by the way. It took them almost 4 weeks to respond NO. Even though they were installing the Truma heaters in the Hymer in the same factory, they would not install one in my unit as its never been done before.

In that exchange, I discovered that the Alde in-floor heating (sold to me with no supporting documentation because they don't have any), was not in fact in-floor heating. It's only in-floor on one of the Sprinter-based models. I chewed on that one for a bit. I also found out that in ordering the Alde system, they removed the Girard water heater - apparently the Alde is a water heater as well. No one told me that either. Nowhere does RoadTrek explain what they remove when you add options. I also found out in this exchange that some of the standard AGM batteries are removed if you select the EcoTrek option. They could be a little more up front on that one as well.

So in summary, every request for some customization was refused. To be honest, in hindsight, I'm actually glad because RoadTrek seems to be having enough quality problems with their standard offerings. I've read RoadTrek's provided manuals on Alde, EcoTrek, VoltStart, the general Zion manual etc. - they are useless in terms of application details one would need to debug problems. My wife has since read more posts on various RoadTrek facebook forums that I care to think about regarding problems with the Alde heating system, the VoltStart, EcoTrek modules, and terrible weeks to months long repair visits with RoadTrek's dealers. I seriously hope such nightmares don't become ours as well.

As to timelines...
We originally ordered our STANDARD Zion unit on Oct 28, 2016. We asked for the Truma heater on Oct 29, 2016. We were refused about a month later. We requested that the build proceed in writing (new order paperwork) on December 1, 2016 complete with an induction stove addition. We were told our unit would begin the build phase on Jan 23, 2017 provided there were no production delays. Given the build can take 6 to 8 weeks, we MAY have the unit by late March, 2017.

From my experiences above, I am floored that you got as much customization approved as you did. We were dealing with RoadTrek's engineering group directly (through a dealer). You were dealing with Jim Hammill who would have had to later deal with RoadTrek's engineering group. RoadTrek do maintain a schedule for each order. They should be able to tell you the build start date at a minimum. I got an answer the day I asked.

It will be interesting to follow this thread to see how your experience pans out.

While I would love to hear positive experiences from recent Zion purchasers who got Alde, VoltStart and EcoTrek, I currently stand very concerned about when we will receive our unit, and what kind of problems we can expect to experience initially and ongoing.

Oh, I heard during the factory tour that you can get warranty work done at the factory. This was prior to us making the purchase and was a major selling point because we live 40 minutes from the factory. We later found this is very much discouraged by RoadTrek, and the wait-list for factory service can be upwards of 3 months.

From all feedback I've received, RoadTrek are under tremendous pressure to get Hymer production lines moving, and apparently deal with still ongoing issues with EcoTrek, VoltStart, and the Alde heating system (all of which we bought). RoadTrek is no longer in the customization business. Its unfortunate that we along with you were led to believe otherwise by our salesman - even if your salesman was the president. I suspect our salesman like Jim Hammill was remembering the RoadTrek of the past.

If I had any advice to offer from my very limited experience, it would be to cancel if you still can and go with a company that still does customization like SportsMobile or Advanced RV, or purchase a standard unit that is closest to what you want and customize it if necessary.

Best of luck!

[gregmchugh]

Cannuck, When you asked for a Truma hot water heater to replace the Girard it would need to be the Truma AquaGo which is something they don't use in any of the products including the Aktiv which has the Truma system that does both heat and hot water. I expect they were not interested in adding another Truma item that was not already being used even though it is designed to be an easy swap with the Girard or Suburban water heaters.

I guess it is pretty clear that they are really set up to support customization but that doesn't seem to stop the commitments to customize that are made at RV shows likely without consultation with the production people who need to make it happen.

Their current push to get higher quality commensurate with Hymer in Europe would naturally reduce customization options until the system is ready to support it at the right level of quality. Not likely there will ever be a high level of customization but a larger list of options available to allow more customer choice.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.



"Roadtreking" is Mike's business name. You might not want to entangle in it.

Agreed. Mike and Jim are very closely associated. Roadtreking is a RoadTrek info-blog with an associated Facebook group.

[traveler]

This has been a really interesting and informative discussion thread. We are relatively new to rving. After two years of looking, reading and evaluation we ordered the Winnebago ERA 70A in early June and took delivery in late August and have been working on the learning curve ever since. The Roadtrek was one that we seriously considered but in the end thought the ERA was a better fit for us. When we took delivery I had a conversation with our sales rep about how close we were to choosing the Roadtrek and he assured us that we made a good choice because they found Roadtrek so hard to deal with and the orders were never filled on time. We thought he was just making happy noises but after reading what all of you had to say, I feel very mush assured we made a good choice. We took our coach in the morning for some evaluation on the house battery and to have a roof mounted solar panel installed. i hope everything works out for Staci.

Happy New Year to you all and thanks again for all the valuable information!

[Cannuck]

You are correct in that the Truma unit I ideally wanted was the AquaGo Comfort Plus. I'm not sure what Truma water heater units were in the Hymer as I've never seen a brochure. At the time of my purchase late in 2016, the Hymer wasn't available for sale in Canada.

RoadTrek refused any and all customization. If they improve product quality by doing so, then perhaps it's just as well. I have my fingers crossed. My wife has pointed out too many stories on 2015 through 2017 units that suggest they have a long way to go.

My previous experience with RVs was a Coleman 12' popup trailer with a slideout. While it was pretty simple compared to the Zion, it still had batteries, a charging system, a furnace, fridge, slideout, stoves, hot water heater, and a roof lift system. I never had a single problem with it. I naively thought my RT experience would be similar. I guess we will see but I doubt it.

[Roxy4x4]

So out of interest, at what point in ‘the purchase / build process,’ is a person able to cancel and have their deposit refunded?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Cannuck

If I had any advice to offer from my very limited experience, it would be to cancel if you still can and go with a company that still does customization like SportsMobile or Advanced RV, or purchase a standard unit that is closest to what you want and customize it if necessary.

Best of luck!

After all you said, it seems this is advice you are not heeding.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Davydd

After all you said, it seems this is advice you are not heeding.

Hold On Mr. Davydd.

Fact is: There is a complex mathematical formula for computing the answer to Roxy4x4 question. In order for the numbers to be crunched, lots of data needs to be available. Wait, much of that data is right here on the forum.

-How many times have there been LIES with Certainty? 90% chance? .......

-How many missed Dates with Certainty? 90% chance? ........

-How many...............

Fact is, well no: The numbers have already been crunched, I think. But I may have missed it, and they have not been crunched, ymmv........

Bud

[4DMTNS]

While I hope it all turns out well for you StaciJames, I'm just gonna offer up that I've NEVER closed on a car, SUV, condo, house or even a home refinance on the promised date.

When I ordered my Aktiv in November, I was told it would be delivered in late January from the dealership. If it takes 6-8 weeks to produce like the Hymer representative informed me and went into the production process December 23 as planned ... I should see it late February. Any earlier than that will be quite the surprise!

Hymer was closed 12/25-27 and again 12/30-1/1. So really, the rig probably physically went into production today (1/2) if things were not delayed further.

When it gets here, it gets here. Do I want it faster? Heck yeah!! Can I change it? Nope.

I've been taking this time to read through the PDF manuals for the components in the Aktiv that the Hymer representative sent me, as well as the other manuals I have located. I certainly don't expect the dealership to be able to really educate me on these items. As an early adopter, I believe I need to be prepared before I take delivery. In the weeks to come, I'm hoping the GoHymer site will have the full manual uploaded (http://www.gohymer.com/owners-manual/) for me to print and review. It's my understanding the engineers are editing it right now.

I've also read many of the posts on this forum that sent me digging for more knowledge. What an education process.

Again, I hope all works out well for you. It has been interesting to read through all the input here.

4DMTNS

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f7/aktiv-or-travato59g-decision-time-6001.html

[BBQ]

.

It would be easier to buy a standard unit off the lot,
take delivery immediately,
then take it to an RV shop to have things you want changed out.

It will not cost you more.

Having custom work done at the old RT was not cheap.
People paid thousands for a cabinet that is slightly different in size.

[Cannuck]

Originally Posted by Davydd

After all you said, it seems this is advice you are not heeding.

US buyers have a lot more options. If I could get my deposit back I likely would have cancelled. I do like the Roadtrek Zion features and layout. Roadtrek has had 2 years to sort their problems. it appears they have a ways to go. If I could chose from among the US options, I likely would have gravitated to something like Advanced RV.