Custom 2017 Hymer Aktiv on order

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

KISS is good.


At the other end of the HVAC spectrum,
RT tapped the engine coolant and routes it through a heat-exchanger to harness the heat to circulate to the Alde hydronic underfloor heating system.

Great idea. Mega complications.

What are the mega complications with this heat exchanger?

Other than a couple of cases of poor connections that leaked I have not seen any reported issues with either the engine preheat mode or cabin heat from the engine mode for this heat exchanger setup...

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

From what our testing has shown so far, I think that the DC Power alternators are probably good for 55-65% of their rated output at any given temperature. The hotter it gets, the lower you go, and if on a Balmar, it will thermal cycle you to that average output. At idle you will be in the 100 amp range on a 200 idle rated amp alternator spinning a bit slower than 2400 rpm alternator and hot.

Hmm. I have never paid that much attention to long-term idle performance, since I rarely do it, and when I have it has always accomplished my immediate goals. I may be one of those guys who looked at initial performance and drew premature conclusions. Not convinced that I have ever lost all that much, though. I should take a more systematic look. I am not sure that the 55-65% rule of thumb necessary applies, though. I agree that those numbers may be about right over the range of operation, but at idle, we are only producing 200 amps max, and that is about the low end of where our unit seems to start temperature cycling. Balancing that is the reduction of airflow when idling as compared to driving. Not sure where it nets out. I will try to quantify when I get a chance.

[booster]

We have a big advantage in evaluating how hot the alternators are getting under various circumstances, as we can see the instantaneous temps right on the dash, along with the amps. Ours also could be different at idle than yours due to alternator locations, but it would be great to see some information on what you get. You sit low, I think, so a bit of breeze from the front would probably do you a lot of good, and for us, not so much. When were were idling and got near 220* on the alts, if I turned on the two big Spal addon fans, the alt temps dropped very quickly, although the 30 amps the fans were using did take some away from the batteries. That would indicate to me that at idle, getting enough air in has a big influence. Of course the alternators take in air at their rear surface, so the complicates it all, too.

We also need to get a lot more information on ours, particularly in hot weather going down the road, where we have very little information currently.

I think we probably do know that the Roadtreks are not getting much more than 120 tops at idle, or they wouldn't get the death spiral so easily.

I think your Baldor will display alt temps, but you need to be able to see the regulator to do read them, and change screens. It would be interesting to see how a temp gun reading would compare to what the Baldor says. When I tested putting the thermocouples on the output post like Baldor does, or on the case close to the laminations, I found the case to react quicker and more consistently than the output. It may be the output is giving more of a diode temp, and the case a winding temp, but without internal sensors there is no way to find out.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I think your Baldor will display alt temps, but you need to be able to see the regulator to do read them, and change screens.

Yeah, the Balmar has pins for serial output, but they apparently don't do anything. I wish they would implement them. I would love to have all the state of the device on my dash display, along with the data from my inverter and battery monitor, both of which have serial ports that I already monitor.

While we are on the topic, I have a question:
My Trimetric has a second voltage input that I can display via its serial port. Right now it is connected to the chassis battery, which is pretty boring, plus I already have that information via my ScanGauge. I was thinking of changing it to monitor the field output pin from the Balmar to the alternator. Thought it might be interesting. Does that make any sense?

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

While we are on the topic, I have a question:
My Trimetric has a second voltage input that I can display via its serial port. Right now it is connected to the chassis battery, which is pretty boring, plus I already have that information via my ScanGauge. I was thinking of changing it to monitor the field output pin from the Balmar to the alternator. Thought it might be interesting. Does that make any sense?

That does make sense to me. When I went to set up the output limits on the Ample Power regulator, I called them to find out what the field signal was, and if I could check it with a Fluke DVM. The said no problem to do that, and that the reading should be very close, even though it is a pulsed signal, so they probably have some capacitance on the output to smooth it. When I was testing and tweeking the limits, I would put the DVM on the field to ground and go up or down a bit to change the limit. Based on that, I think you would able to do the same, as long as the Trimetric works like the DVM does, and the signal is smooth enough for it.

[cshetl]

Just a note I posted some pics in the general forum in a new thread.

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

What are the mega complications with this heat exchanger?

Other than a couple of cases of poor connections that leaked I have not seen any reported issues with either the engine preheat mode or cabin heat from the engine mode for this heat exchanger setup...

I have read (and posted a question to the group about their Alde experience) on the Roadtrek Owners forums about issues with the Alde. What I have learned:
- Similar to other RT new tech... some (not all) of the original 2014 vans with the system had some issues with the way the heated floor lines were setup and needed the design needed to be changed (different gauge tubing used, etc.). From what I have learned these issues were resolved on vans after 2014. Also, documentation, dealer training, and user knowledge was low at first and confusing. RT and Alde themselves provided instruction to owners and dealers to learn how to use and maintain the system (see below).
- The system is complicated for users to understand and it does require maintenance including the need to bleed the radiators, the floor lines, replacing the glycol fluid, etc.

Most owners mentioned that they love the quiet heat, warm floors and found the system reliable and easy to use once understood. If we decide to go with the SS Agile we will order the Alde heat. Bit concerned about it being the new tech but compared to a regular propane heater it seems great.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Keyne

I have read (and posted a question to the group about their Alde experience) on the Roadtrek Owners forums about issues with the Alde. What I have learned:
- Similar to other RT new tech... some (not all) of the original 2014 vans with the system had some issues with the way the heated floor lines were setup and needed the design needed to be changed (different gauge tubing used, etc.). From what I have learned these issues were resolved on vans after 2014. Also, documentation, dealer training, and user knowledge was low at first and confusing. RT and Alde themselves provided instruction to owners and dealers to learn how to use and maintain the system (see below).
- The system is complicated for users to understand and it does require maintenance including the need to bleed the radiators, the floor lines, replacing the glycol fluid, etc.

Most owners mentioned that they love the quiet heat, warm floors and found the system reliable and easy to use once understood. If we decide to go with the SS Agile we will order the Alde heat. Bit concerned about it being the new tech but compared to a regular propane heater it seems great.

All true, I was simply responding to the BBQ comment that there were mega complications associated with the heat exchanger between the Alde glycol and the engine coolant which provides the engine preheat function and the capability to heat the van from the engine coolant without having the Alde burner active. I have seen no issues with this heat exchanger except for the couple of cases of bad connections that were leaking.

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

All true, I was simply responding to the BBQ comment that there were mega complications associated with the heat exchanger between the Alde glycol and the engine coolant which provides the engine preheat function and the capability to heat the van from the engine coolant without having the Alde burner active. I have seen no issues with this heat exchanger except for the couple of cases of bad connections that were leaking.

I agree with your comments as well. I was responding more to BBQ so in case people were looking for the info they might find some more info about the system and user experience with it.

[BBQ]

.

The major design differences in Aktiv vs Travato in the battery system:

With the Travato,

1. You get 2 AGM batteries. No Lithium options or additional battery options.

2. No inverter. If you want to use the air conditioner or microwave,
you have to either plug in, or run the Onan generator.

3. One simple solar panel. No additional solar option.

RT promises you a lot of thing$,
including running your A/C while boondocking in the wilderness.

Anything is possible, all it takes is money.

One guy worked out his toasts cost $75 each.


Have fun.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

The major design differences in Aktiv vs Travato in the battery system:

With the Travato,

1. You get 2 AGM batteries. No Lithium options or additional battery options.

2. No inverter. If you want to use the air conditioner or microwave,
you have to either plug in, or run the Onan generator.

3. One simple solar panel. No additional solar option.

RT promises you a lot of thing$,
including running your A/C while boondocking in the wilderness.

Anything is possible, all it takes is money.

One guy worked out his toasts cost $75 each.


Have fun.

Have you ever read Davydd's Advancing Alvar thread. His Advanced Rv is in the 225,000 dollar range.

he thinks it is worth every penny-and to him it is.

People spend all sorts of money that to one is a lot and to others is nothing.

I think most peoples decisions are made based on the economic circumstances.

My zion cost about 15,000 dollars more than a travato. I tried both.

I wanted the inverter for the microwave and coffee maker quietly. I have an AGM battery-no battery air conditioner for me.

I could have easily afforded a more expensive roadtrek with multiple batterys and air conditioning abilitys-however it made no sense to me.

you buy what you want if you have the money-thats the way life is

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Have you ever read Davydd's Advancing Alvar thread. His Advanced Rv is in the 225,000 dollar range.

he thinks it is worth every penny-and to him it is.

People spend all sorts of money that to one is a lot and to others is nothing.

I think most peoples decisions are made based on the economic circumstances.

My zion cost about 15,000 dollars more than a travato. I tried both.

I wanted the inverter for the microwave and coffee maker quietly. I have an AGM battery-no battery air conditioner for me.

I could have easily afforded a more expensive roadtrek with multiple batterys and air conditioning abilitys-however it made no sense to me.

you buy what you want if you have the money-thats the way life is

Agreed. And remember: Age, Success, and Money are all relative.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

::
My zion cost about 15,000 dollars more than a travato. I tried both.

I wanted the inverter for the microwave and coffee maker quietly. I have an AGM battery-no battery air conditioner for me.

::

Assuming you are making 25 coffees a year for the next 10 yrs
(ie 250 coffees),

those are $60 coffees.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Assuming you are making 25 coffees a year for the next 10 yrs
(ie 250 coffees),

those are $60 coffees.

...and if you camp 25 nights a year for the next 10 years in your $150K van, those are $600 nights.

Your point is...?

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Assuming you are making 25 coffees a year for the next 10 yrs
(ie 250 coffees),

those are $60 coffees.

Not having to start the Onan-or having to turn on the propane stove-priceless-lol

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by avanti

...and if you camp 25 nights a year for the next 10 years in your $150K van, those are $600 nights.

Your point is...?

No point... just joking.

[Davydd]

Your estimates are way too high and I don't even have wheel covers or an awning.

I will admit I hit the sweet spot in ordering my ARV. Demand exploded shortly after and the rumor costs rose as well. I have no idea what I would have to pay today but I know some people have ARV better quality at a much less cost than your can buy a Roadtrek EcoTrek or Airstream Sprinter.

I did get exactly what I wanted without compromise gained from experience of two previous iterations of Class Bs that I liked as well. That could not have been achieved with any other company. I did miss out on a 4 x 4 by about 6 months. I could have ordered one but there would have been a 6 month longer wait.

[Davydd]

We camp over 100 nights per year and we easily brew 8 cups of coffee per day.

However, we did have a paid up boat kept at a dock on Lake Minnetonka when we bought our first Class B. We finally got rid of it when we realized we were seldom home during boating season in Minnesota and it was costing us close to that $600 for an afternoon cruise with as much as we were using it. We still had dock fees, winter storage fees, maintenance and fuel.

When you think about it, it is cheaper to cover 49 states numerous times and all Canadian provinces in a Class B than flying, staying in hotels, eating restaurant food all the time, renting cars, etc. In fact, I don't think you can easily get to all the places we've been any other way. Because we typically take trips longer than a month, one of our major goals was to make living in a Class B as comfortable as possible so it didn't become so tedious. Inside comfortable seating was that one major goal.

[wincrasher]

You also can get the RV you want at a lower price and add the features you want, instead of paying the high prices of something pre-packaged by the likes of Roadtrek or Pleasureway.

As many of you know, I've modded my Travato a good bit. $2800 in lithium batteries, $500 in extra solar, $1500 for an inverter, and $500 for a better charger. I'm still many, many thousands ahead of the next cheaper van available.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

You also can get the RV you want at a lower price and add the features you want, instead of paying the high prices of something pre-packaged by the likes of Roadtrek or Pleasureway.

As many of you know, I've modded my Travato a good bit. $2800 in lithium batteries, $500 in extra solar, $1500 for an inverter, and $500 for a better charger. I'm still many, many thousands ahead of the next cheaper van available.

I strongly agree. Finding a van with "good bones" but without all the high-markup add-ons is by far the most cost-effective approach to getting a truly great rig, at least if you don't have the time and skill to start from scratch. The margins of many of these high-tech add ons can be pretty stunning.

One of the reasons I was so sad to see GWV's demise is that, at least for us, ours has proven to be a really excellent starting point for this "make it yours" approach.