Costs of used Bs

Doneworking · 07-06-2017, 12:20 AM

I have been looking around at low mileage used Bs in the 5-10 year old range and it seems to me, having owned a few Bs in the past, that the cost of good used rigs have actually increased a bit over the last few years. Is that a valid observation or am I just seeing higher priced units???

Phoebe3 · 07-06-2017, 01:01 AM

Our neighbors paid $72K for a new Roadtrek Adventurous in 2012. That is the same price you will pay for a used, low mileage 2012 Roadtrek Adventurous today. They marvel at the fact that their rig has not depreciated in five years.

When I looked at NADA Guides, it looked like the cost of a three- to five-year-old rig was the same as the purchase price new. That's assuming you can knock 20-25% off the new price to get to the price actually paid. So if NADA says the new price was $100K and the current used value is $80K, there hasn't been any depreciation.

We thought used rigs were overpriced compared to new ones so decided to buy new.

wincrasher · 07-06-2017, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

Our neighbors paid $72K for a new Roadtrek Adventurous in 2012. That is the same price you will pay for a used, low mileage 2012 Roadtrek Adventurous today. They marvel at the fact that their rig has not depreciated in five years.

When I looked at NADA Guides, it looked like the cost of a three- to five-year-old rig was the same as the purchase price new. That's assuming you can knock 20-25% off the new price to get to the price actually paid. So if NADA says the new price was $100K and the current used value is $80K, there hasn't been any depreciation.

We thought used rigs were overpriced compared to new ones so decided to buy new.

Roadtreks don't trade for 25% off except in very unusual circumstances. 10-15% off is the norm. Nada guide are not what people pay either - they are more along the lines of what banks will lend - generally 80% of those figures. It really depends on the individual van, it's condition and how it's equipped.

I have not heard anything really if the advanced tech of the last 3 years has positively or negatively effected resale values. In my view, those early Ecotreks with the AGM batteries may not hold value very well as they were quickly obsoleted by the lithiums, not to mention the bugs some had suffered. Anyone that has first hand knowledge on this point please chime in.

mlts22 · 07-10-2017, 04:51 PM

The reason why van prices have shot up so high is that the relatively inexpensive vans on the Chevy Express, Dodge RAMVan, and the Ford Econoline are discontinued, and for about seven years, the only focus by class "B" makers was on the Mercedes Sprinter, which meant that for that period, there were no inexpensive used models available. I pulled up a RV trader, and the cheapest used van made in the last 10 years costs $50,000. For that price, I can spend a few thou more and get a new Hymer Sunlight.

Vans are so popular that the ones that are on sale for any reasonable price more than a few weeks tend to be antediluvian models, ones that don't have critical items (bathrooms, sinks), or other major problem.

avanti · 07-10-2017, 05:00 PM

Another factor contributing to the rise in used prices is the fact that older vans (especially diesel Sprinters) are prized for their lack of troublesome emissions systems.

gklugie · 07-10-2017, 07:08 PM

Avanti, you mention lack of "troublesome emission systems" on older sprinters. I just read a horror story about Sprinters costing 5X as much as gassers for maintenance. This is from a man who owns fleets and had good data. His article is definitely making me wary of diesel.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f259/fata...er-319026.html

Read this and remark!

BBQ · 07-10-2017, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklugie

Avanti, you mention lack of "troublesome emission systems" on older sprinters. I just read a horror story about Sprinters costing 5X as much as gassers for maintenance. This is from a man who owns fleets and had good data. His article is definitely making me wary of diesel.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f259/fata...er-319026.html

Read this and remark!

Don't believe everything you read on the internet at face value.
That guy is omitting a lot of information about his case.
There is more to it than a simple dispute.

Phoebe3 · 07-10-2017, 08:15 PM

I suspect that part of the inflated price for used RVs is that during the economic downturn (2006-2012) leisure travel was one of the first things crossed off most folks' list. I wouldn't be surprised if RV sales dropped to one-quarter of their previous volume. That went on for six or seven years so there's just not a lot of used vans out there. The supply/demand equation means used prices are high as a result.

Unfortunately for those of us who are finally ready to buy, the choice is to spend a lot for a used model that is out of warranty...or for more money purchase a new model that will NOT be worth very much in five years. Because the economy has picked up and the market for new RVs has increased dramatically, in five years there will be PLENTY of used RVs on the market.

BBQ · 07-10-2017, 08:18 PM

.

Quite a few RV manufacturers went out of business during the 2008 market crash.

gklugie · 07-10-2017, 08:27 PM

I don't know BBQ. You are pretty quick to question Mr. Sullivan's figures. He has a fleet of 28 units and keeps detailed records. Heck.... even his remark about an oil change is eye-opening..... Surely you don't challenge his assertion that a gasser oil change is $30-$40 while a Diesel oil change is $170-400 ? How about the $600 Nox sensors?.... Do you think Sullivan is misrepresenting or lying or stretching the truth? I lnow from experience that all Mercedes Benz vehicles are expensive to upkeep.

avanti · 07-10-2017, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gklugie

I don't know BBQ. You are pretty quick to question Mr. Sullivan's figures. He has a fleet of 28 units and keeps detailed records. Heck.... even his remark about an oil change is eye-opening..... Surely you don't challenge his assertion that a gasser oil change is $30-$40 while a Diesel oil change is $170-400 ? How about the $600 Nox sensors?.... Do you think Sullivan is misrepresenting or lying or stretching the truth? I lnow from experience that all Mercedes Benz vehicles are expensive to upkeep.

That article is notorious in Sprinter circles. It is widely considered to be unfairly polemical. As a random example, modern Sprinters have a 20,000 mile oil change interval. So, quoting cost per oil change rather than cost per mile is certainly misleading. (And when he does compute long-term costs, his math is off by 50%). There is lots more wrong with it.

As i said, there are certainly issues with recent model Sprinter emissions systems, and they can lead to expensive repairs. But IMO it is nowhere near as dire as that guy wants you to believe.

Phoebe3 · 07-10-2017, 09:11 PM

I dunno about that whole "20,000 miles between oil changes" thing. Seems to me the manufacturer is in the business of selling NEW vehicles, so if they can convince you to only change the oil often enough to get the engine past the warranty period, but not often enough to get, say 300,000 miles out of the engine, well that's all to the good, isn't it?

Pardon my cynicism but my new Subaru states the oil only needs to be changed every 6,000 miles. I did the first change in 4,000 and will probably never go past 5,000 between changes. My 20-year-old F150 passes smog tests like a new vehicle. Oil changes are cheap insurance.

As for costs on the Mercedes, I have an SLK and the OEM windshield wiper blades are $45.

OK, I'm going to edit this to say that I'm not bagging on MB. They're nice and I can see why folks like them. I also agree that the article noted above leaves a lot out so we are in complete agreement there. I just think it is also true that they are expensive to maintain and not entirely trouble-free.

BBQ · 07-10-2017, 09:35 PM

.

There is a story behind Subaru's oil change interval.

Just think, most car manufacturers (cars, not trucks or RV) recommend oil change every 12,000 miles or one year, why did Subaru's requirement is 6k?

Well it turns out that a number of Subarus were having a cylinder head oil leak problem. A simple remedy was to have the oil changed every 6,000 miles, before the leak reached a critical point.

FYI Subaru has redesigned the cylinder head. The new oil change interval is 12,000 miles now.

avanti · 07-10-2017, 10:00 PM

I wasn't trying to start an oil change thread (heaven forbid). I was just illustrating this guy's weak arguments. The point is that if you are willing to just pull oil change intervals out of your ear, you can make any car look as expensive or as cheap as you want. Unless you have actual oil sample analysis data, the only numbers that have anything at all behind them are the OEM recommendations. If those numbers are lies, then there is nothing more to say. But you shouldn't just make numbers up to support your pre-determined conclusion.