Converting Roadtrek Agile from Ecotrek to AGM

[markopolo]

The imbalance between 6V batteries in the E-trek was fairly easily shown by using a multi-meter. See this post: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...html#post35798

Is the inverter in MobileCabin's Agile 12V? (just making sure it is not 24V with a center tap for 12V)

6V balancers in MobileCabin's Agile could be beneficial even though it's not a long string. The long wire run would seem to have the same negative effects as a long string.

[MobileCabin]

markopolo,

The inverter is 12v in my AGM battery configuration. I am going to install a Magnum when I get to it, so is there a set of charging values that I should program?

Thanks

[markopolo]

Booster has a Magnum and would be able to advise on the settings.

[booster]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

markopolo,

The inverter is 12v in my AGM battery configuration. I am going to install a Magnum when I get to it, so is there a set of charging values that I should program?

Thanks

You would probably want to use the "custom" charge profile with about 14.4 volts for absorption and 13.2v for float depending on your battery brand. You will have an ARC50 and BMK, I assume with a shunt so you will need to find out what the battery manufacturer recommends for float transition amps (return amps) and then confirm they match your batteries by testing to make sure it is correct as it can vary with age and condition of the batteries. Max charge time can be set quite long because the amps will be controlling things.


My guess is that you won't have as much trouble as the etrek, hopefully not even close, because you will have matched pair strings so all the batteries should see the same charge voltage. The etrek really got into issue because of the uneven discharge they get by taking the 12v off only 1/2 the batteries, and coupling that with horrible battery string matching and a non amps controlled charger made the charging side totally unbalanced. It was essentially impossible to not overcharge some batteries and undercharge others without the balancer. The good is that as Marko says, it is very easy to check the charge and discharge balance with a voltmeter at each individual battery. Having a Magnum controlled by the right return amp settings will give you a huge leg up on the Roadtrek system. Be aware of course that the current condition of your batteries may not be all that great and cause some problems, if they have been on your old system for a while.


A balancer in any string is not a bad idea, with the only downside being a bit of capacity used, plus some cost and space. I think the biggest unbalance you might see would be from charging off the alternator when driving as the front batteries would be running quite a bit hotter than the rears because they are in the hot engine compartment. The balancer would even them out pretty much after you stopped and things got back to even temps.

[MobileCabin]

Booster and markopolo,

Thanks for the suggestions. They are technically sound and easily incorporated into my AGM configuration. Just need to wait and hear what the dealer proposes in light of the current HymerNA before I order the new components.

[MobileCabin]

For those interested in the current state of battery technology. The Battery Show is September 10-12, 2019 at the Suburban Collection Showplace in Novi, MI


https://thebatteryshow.com/conferenc...lq_cid=8122849

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

For those interested in the current state of battery technology. The Battery Show is September 10-12, 2019 at the Suburban Collection Showplace in Novi, MI


https://thebatteryshow.com/conferenc...lq_cid=8122849

Thank you for sharing. I looked into this conference program seems dominated by Li and electrodes development but lead acid is not dead yet, this bipolar lead electrodes technology seems to have some promises.

http://www.alabc.org/publications/bipolar-designs
https://novi18.mapyourshow.com/7_0/s...owresults=true

[MobileCabin]

What is the easiest way to lower the AGM battery pair in the rear of a 2015 Agile? The tray straps are bolted to the frame and are somewhat easy to access. But there are long pins on the bottom plate fastened to the sides. Do I support the bottom plate and pull the pins?

Thanks

[GeorgeRa]

I used motorcycle lift for mounting heavy devices under the floor, allows for precise alignment in awkward places.

[MobileCabin]

I had some time free last week and installed a new Magnum MSH3012M, ME-ARC50 and ME-BMK. It went surprisingly fast. I was happy to see that the cable used by RT was 4/0 and DC battery wiring was easy to understand once I got underneath and looked. I also added a double pole breaker for the incoming 110v power since it went directly to the inverter from the shore plug.


If I feel the need to do more work in the future I will probably replace their choice of fuses/breakers with some class T fuses.


I can say that Roadtrek did a good job installing their electrical components in my van. But of course, not all of the components they chose to use were very good which is why I had to replace the inverter/converter.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

I had some time free last week and installed a new Magnum MSH3012M, ME-ARC50 and ME-BMK. It went surprisingly fast. I was happy to see that the cable used by RT was 4/0 and DC battery wiring was easy to understand once I got underneath and looked. I also added a double pole breaker for the incoming 110v power since it went directly to the inverter from the shore plug.


If I feel the need to do more work in the future I will probably replace their choice of fuses/breakers with some class T fuses.


I can say that Roadtrek did a good job installing their electrical components in my van. But of course, not all of the components they chose to use were very good which is why I had to replace the inverter/converter.

What model was the original inverter and what problems did you have with it?

[MobileCabin]

It was the Power Star LW3000-12-C. It stopped acting as a charger and started to drain the batteries. I was lucky to catch it early and turn it off and replaced with a large BatteryMinder. The display ceased to function properly so there was no way to reset or change settings. This happened just before the collapse of RT so I was in contact with tech support who had me schedule a visit with a local dealer who was going to fix/replace. I kept the appointment and had them diagnose what I knew, it died.


I could have saved money and just replaced with another, but the Magnum made it worth my effort. I put the Power Star on the shelf of things to fix when I have nothing else to do.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

It was the Power Star LW3000-12-C. It stopped acting as a charger and started to drain the batteries. I was lucky to catch it early and turn it off and replaced with a large BatteryMinder. The display ceased to function properly so there was no way to reset or change settings. This happened just before the collapse of RT so I was in contact with tech support who had me schedule a visit with a local dealer who was going to fix/replace. I kept the appointment and had them diagnose what I knew, it died.


I could have saved money and just replaced with another, but the Magnum made it worth my effort. I put the Power Star on the shelf of things to fix when I have nothing else to do.

Are you using Lithiums or AGMs?

[MobileCabin]

AGM (4 6volts).

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

It was the Power Star LW3000-12-C. It stopped acting as a charger and started to drain the batteries. I was lucky to catch it early and turn it off and replaced with a large BatteryMinder. The display ceased to function properly so there was no way to reset or change settings. This happened just before the collapse of RT so I was in contact with tech support who had me schedule a visit with a local dealer who was going to fix/replace. I kept the appointment and had them diagnose what I knew, it died.


I could have saved money and just replaced with another, but the Magnum made it worth my effort. I put the Power Star on the shelf of things to fix when I have nothing else to do.

IMO, upgrading to the Magnum was money well spent. It provides a lot of features absent on the Powerstar. Were you able to use the old Powerstar telco cable to set up the remote? Did you have to change out 12V or 120V cable to accommodate the Magnum?

[MobileCabin]

The Magnum looked like it could almost work without changing the AC or DC cables, but I felt that it was going to be too hard to work with those constraints. So, I moved the placement of the Magnum more towards the center of the floor space and ran new 4/0. It was simply removing the old wire cables and replacing with new longer cables. The connection points were easy to get to underneath the van. Since I was changing this much, I also added a BlueSea 6006 switch just before going into the inverter.


As far as AC changes, I found it easier to add a BlueSea 3131 circuit breaker enclosure for the incoming AC and a splice block for the outgoing AC. This allowed connecting the Roadtrek installed solid Romex to the much easier to use tinned stranded. From there to the Magnum.


The existing data cable was also reused. I removed to old controller just above the slider entrance and clipped off the cable that was soldered to the controller board. Then crimped on a RJ11 connector making sure I copied the wired pattern of the Magnum cable. Then enlarged the hole from the previous controller and screwed the ARC50 flush to the wall next to the other controller switches.


I have had it hooked up near the house so I can monitor its behavior and all seems happy. Also sent an email to EastPenn asking them for a specific charging settings. As far as I can tell, the AGMs were made by them. Now just waiting for some blue split loom to cover the exposed data cables and then it will be complete


Pat

[booster]

Originally Posted by MobileCabin

The Magnum looked like it could almost work without changing the AC or DC cables, but I felt that it was going to be too hard to work with those constraints. So, I moved the placement of the Magnum more towards the center of the floor space and ran new 4/0. It was simply removing the old wire cables and replacing with new longer cables. The connection points were easy to get to underneath the van. Since I was changing this much, I also added a BlueSea 6006 switch just before going into the inverter.


As far as AC changes, I found it easier to add a BlueSea 3131 circuit breaker enclosure for the incoming AC and a splice block for the outgoing AC. This allowed connecting the Roadtrek installed solid Romex to the much easier to use tinned stranded. From there to the Magnum.


The existing data cable was also reused. I removed to old controller just above the slider entrance and clipped off the cable that was soldered to the controller board. Then crimped on a RJ11 connector making sure I copied the wired pattern of the Magnum cable. Then enlarged the hole from the previous controller and screwed the ARC50 flush to the wall next to the other controller switches.


I have had it hooked up near the house so I can monitor its behavior and all seems happy. Also sent an email to EastPenn asking them for a specific charging settings. As far as I can tell, the AGMs were made by them. Now just waiting for some blue split loom to cover the exposed data cables and then it will be complete


Pat

Sounds like you are getting toward a very nice setup. Did you program the ARC50 for using the "return amps" function to control the transition to float. This is one of the biggest advantages of the Magnum and will take very good care of your AGM batteries. Set the amps to your battery manufacturer recommendation (.5%C for Lifeline) and put in a long absorption maximum like 12 hours as it will be impossible for it to overcharge when you use amps.



Two things to watch for that we have found after living with our MS2000 and AGM batteries for a few years. The Magnum does not automatically run a full charge cycle every time you plug in to shore power or run the generator. It looks at battery voltage and if it is above about 12.7/12.8v it will go right to float. This can be a bad thing as you often have relatively high voltage but not totally full batteries because of the many hour absorption finishing time needed. It is especially bad if you had batteries somewhat discharged and then did a a short drive to the site as when you get to shore power there would be false voltage left from the alternator for a while. If we are close to full when we plug in, I just look at the ARC50 remote to see if it is in float or absorption. If it did go to float, a couple of key presses let you force a full charge cycle which will then run fully automatic with no more input needed. The great part is that if the batteries are full, the charge cycle will only last a couple of minutes and go to float, so no chance of overcharge.



We have found our Magnum to be very critical on ventilation and was often going into reduced charge output because of it, along with a slight hot odor. I added a couple of fans on the outlet grill of the Magnum and another to ventilate the cabinet better and now all is good. You can also just turn down the output to about 80% or less and it will not get as warm. Another member has done some serious internal baffling to improve the function of the Magnum fans and has gotten good temp reductions. We did minor internal baffling first and that helped, but the fans took care of it all. They come on by thermostat reading air temp out of the Magnum. I have now also decided to running at 70% all the time for a while as we rarely are under 50% discharge where the higher 20%C charge rate is recommended by Lifeline. I we do get a deep discharge, it takes only seconds to turn it back up.



I think you find the Magnum to be a very nice charger, and if you use the amp controlled charging, you will be taking care of your batteries about as well as possible.


on edit: I just looked at the East Penn site and I didn't find any charge profile charts that showed the amps when full at absorption, or what % of capacity to use, so it is likely they are going to give you voltages and times only when they reply. If they do that, you could ask for the amps, as someone there would know if they try to find it for you, but they may not tell you. If that is the case, it is easy to determine yourself. Just do a couple of over 20% discharge/recharge cycles and watch how low the amps to the batteries gets before it levels off, in about 8-10 hours normally. Add about .2-.5 amps to that based on battery bank size and set that in the Magnum. Run another 20+% discharge going to 50% even just for better test and see how long it runs before going to float. Again a bit bank size specific but should be at least 7+ hours but not more than about 10 hours. For most batteries you will be way above the time they say to set for absorption as they are being very cautious about overcharging and you don't have to worry about that.

[markopolo]

Some info here: http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com...eters-1913.pdf

Charge until change in current < 0.10A per Hr / Max Time: 12Hr

Max.Current 30% of C20

If no loads and if the AGM's are in good condition it wouldn't surprise me if you see the charging almost stop / really slow down when it's around 1A in at 14.4V. That's about what I see with the AGM's in my van. They're about as full as they can be at that point.

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Some info here: http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com...eters-1913.pdf

Quote:
Charge until change in current < 0.10A per Hr / Max Time: 12Hr
Quote:
Max.Current 30% of C20



If no loads and if the AGM's are in good condition it wouldn't surprise me if you see the charging almost stop / really slow down when it's around 1A in at 14.4V. That's about what I see with the AGM's in my van. They're about as full as they can be at that point.

We have to assume they meant to say .10 amp per AH of capacity? if so, that is a very high rated as you would have 10 amps at 100AH capacity. This does match the absorption cutoff that some charge manufacturers are using, however. If it was .1% of C, it might be correct for a TPPL which are often about that. I think a charge test will be needed to see what is going on. Once we get to about 3-4 amps in on our 440ah bank it slows way down. We stop at 2 amps which is a bit lower than the .05% Lifeline wants by the magnum doesn't do decimals on that setting. If we let them go to full stability they will be a bit under 1.4 amps most of the time. Once on float and stabilized a couple of days they will at about .1 amp at 13.2v. When first on float current will reverse for a bit and then drop from about .6 amps to the .1 amp.

[markopolo]

I read it as being aware of the change in the amps in during the absorption phase (14.4V). When it's less than 0.10A per Hr change it's done. Could that be what they're saying?

If that's correct then I think I'd watch for that once and note what the amps at the beginning of the static period and then set it based on the amps in seen then. I would not want the batteries held at 14.4V for any longer than necessary.