Composting Toilet, Cassette Toilet and Black Tanks

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

The frequency of needing to dump the solid side seems to vary a lot with the FitRV needed to dump more a lot more often than the frequency of the Wynns which I recall was on the order of weeks. You would need to carry the toilet outside if you want to avoid dumping the compost mixture into a trash bag inside the van.

I go back and forth on cassette vs composting for our next vehicle which will be a 4x4 expedition type vehicle with four season capability, probably something on a F-550 chassis. After the FitRV video I moved back to cassette with one or two spare cassettes but if I find more positive reports on composting I could move back to composting. There are some expedition vehicle owners who are doing fine with composting toilets so it is not all negative reviews.

Here is thread with a positive review of a Natures Head ...

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Greg, That site requires you to register to read. I'm not going to do that.

I know it is easy to pull out but it weighs 40 lbs plus the weight of waste content. As I mentioned earlier, every video only simulated action. Convince me with a video disposal of an actual two weeks worth of waste. How do you get it out of the toilet for starters? You have to put organic mix back in. Do you have to clean the container?

A cassette is not much different than a slinky hose gravity dump. I've watched that action at dump stations numerous times since a lot of small trailers and truck campers use them. It just seems like a lot of extra work as well and clean up is not as sanitary, iMO.

[gregmchugh]

I don't recall any videos of actual dumping and if I eventually get one I don't plan to shoot any videos. I am not likely to be an evangelist for either cassettes or composting but based on many people's strong opinions on toilets I don't expect anyone is going change their minds in any case. I have seen enough positive reviews of both composting and cassettes to understand that I could use either one successfully and that is all that matters to me. At this point I could go either way. There are very few expedition vehicle owners who choose a black tank for lots of reasons but mainly because of four season capability and the lack of regular access to dump stations.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I don't recall any videos of actual dumping and if I eventually get one I don't plan to shoot any videos.

Well, there are videos, in case you wanted one. Full tank and small woman emptying one, too. Probably 5 gallons/40 or so pound max.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMEP7B3VX00

We have a porti-potti, which is really just a small cassette toilet. Usually use the dump station but have dumped it in a toilet. Not a big deal, IMO.

[gregmchugh]

Davydd wanted to see a video of an actual composting toilet dumping, plenty of videos of cassette usage...

[BobB]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Davydd wanted to see a video of an actual composting toilet dumping, plenty of videos of cassette usage...

Ah....my mistake. I read the 40# which is what a full cassette would about weigh and assumed.....

Maybe FitRV will do a video of their composting toilet in action, dumping, etc., but probably TMI.

I do think the composting toilet is over-hyped on ease of use - I read the "no dumping" comments in the other RV forums. Stuff goes in, stuff is going to come out at some point. AND it is not going on your garden.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Davydd wanted to see a video of an actual composting toilet dumping, plenty of videos of cassette usage...

Yes, which assists me in really understanding why the heck I would try like heck to avoid one!

Are there applications for handling your sh*t? Yes, but very few.

Correct my thinking here:

Do 45 foot class A's have these?

Could a minivan use one?

Seems like this was discussed recently? Something like 'Does size matter?'

ysmv

Bud

[gregmchugh]

While some believe otherwise, I think that disposing a trash bag containing composting toilet material into normal trash receptacles is acceptable. It is clear that there is not true composting given the short time period but if the process is working correctly the solids have dried out and the odor is minimal and no more toxic than other similar trash.

[BobB]

Found one for a Nature's Head toilet. Of course, don't pay attention to his "dump the pee in the woods" part........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aHUx_27Cc8

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Bud

Yes, which assists me in really understanding why the heck I would try like heck to avoid one!

Are there applications for handling your sh*t? Yes, but very few.

Correct my thinking here:

Do 45 foot class A's have these?

Could a minivan use one?

Seems like this was discussed recently? Something like 'Does size matter?'

ysmv

Bud

I don't understand your questions?

If you have regular access to dump stations then I don't see why you would want anything other than a black tank system. If you want 4 season capability then a cassette toilet and internal water tank and water lines is one method to get it. If you are traveling away from dump stations then a cassette or composting toilet gives you options for dumping without a dump station.

I know what makes sense for our next vehicle and how we will use it but everyone gets to decide what makes sense for their vehicle...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BobB

Found one for a Nature's Head toilet. Of course, don't pay attention to his "dump the pee in the woods" part........

Very good, seems straight forward and acceptable to me but I expect it won't be very convincing to many based on their previous comments on composting toilets...

[Bud]

gregmchugh, I'm trying.

"I don't understand your questions?"

Maybe this will assist:

"If you have regular access to dump stations then I don't see why you would want anything other than a black tank system."

I'll exaggerate a little. I camp in my Smart Car, so I can't fit a black water tank system.

"If you want 4 season capability then a cassette toilet and internal water tank and water lines is one method to get it."

Yes, we virtually all agree.

"If you are traveling away from dump stations then a cassette or composting toilet gives you options for dumping without a dump station."

I don't quite follow. I have a macerator and am guessing I can dump most places someone handles/dumps their stuff.

"I know what makes sense for our next vehicle and how we will use it but everyone gets to decide what makes sense for their vehicle..."

Sure do agree.

Bud

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Bud

gregmchugh, I'm trying.

"I don't understand your questions?"

Maybe this will assist:

"If you have regular access to dump stations then I don't see why you would want anything other than a black tank system."

I'll exaggerate a little. I camp in my Smart Car, so I can't fit a black water tank system.

"If you are traveling away from dump stations then a cassette or composting toilet gives you options for dumping without a dump station."

I don't quite follow. I have a macerator and am guessing I can dump most places someone handles/dumps their stuff.

Bud

If you camp in a Smart Car then you are SOL so to speak...

If your macerator hose can reach most outhouses then I guess you wouldn't need the flexibility of a cassette but many outhouses are well beyond the reach of most macerator hoses. Some people dump cassettes in rest rooms but that would be rather difficult with a macerator. The composting toilet can be dumped in the trash or buried if you are really out in the boondocks so more flexibility there.

[Bud]

Hopefully, you understood about the size.

"
If your macerator hose can reach most outhouses then I guess you wouldn't need the flexibility of a cassette but many outhouses are well beyond the reach of most macerator hoses. Some people dump cassettes in rest rooms but that would be rather difficult with a macerator. The composting toilet can be dumped in the trash or buried if you are really out in the boondocks so more flexibility there."

Good point, makes my point about size.

With my B, if I carried only 5 gallons of extra water to add to my fresh water tank any time, I can easily go 3 weeks without dumping because of the black water tank. Less yet if I'm really out in the boondocks, there are all kinds of options. Longer than 3 weeks by just throwing out the pee.

Very few applications, RV size makes a difference - very small RV size since not much more space is needed for a black water system.

You mentioned 4 season use. Heck, to AVOID handling my stuff, during the 4th season I would just use wagg bags in the toilet. There are many options to avoid handling your stuff during the 4th season.

Bud

[Gobird]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I did upgrade my sewer hose to this though - takes alot of the ick and danger out of dumping the tanks - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Where do you store/carry that upgrade in your Travato?

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Gobird

Where do you store/carry that upgrade in your Travato?

Hi Gobird,

I don't have a Travato, rather an Express Van. I don't travel in freezing weather, but I do carry about 3 gallons in the Van. These can be nice:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are many different shapes and sizes for water storage.

Bud

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by skagitstan

We expect (based on our short shakedown trips) that the solids container will last 2 weeks or more at our normal rate of production.
As wincrasher says, it comes out quite easily by loosening 2 thumbscrews.
Since our john is opposite the sliding door, with nothing obstructing the path, the container does not need to be carried all through the RV.

Here are pics of how it's located:



Of course, the same would apply to a cassette. Difference being that we won't need to dump solids nearly as frequently, which gives us more flexibility in when/where we can dump.

My understanding is that the Airhead/Nature's Head will eventually compost, but certainly not within the time frame of a camping trip. So if/when necessary, we will likely use the garbage bag disposal method.

We've always managed to easily stock enough food for at least 2 weeks. We don't eat that much, and our old backpacking habits still hold. We used to go on 2 week backpack trips every year, with no food resupply possible.

So, our water needs should ideally match that. Since our fresh and gray tanks are about the same size as yours, and we don't lose any fresh for black use, our water should last longer than it can in your usage. We don't anticipate a need to restock food or water, or find dump services quicker than that ~2weeks.

As an aside, I designed our FW intake plumbing to allow us to use the pump to refill from streams (with filtering or treatment) as well as from (pressurized) city water. This will be a less than dependable backup way to restock water, so I won't count it towards a 2 week estimate.

Parking at a trailhead doesn't significantly reduce water consumption from the tank. The trailheads are almost always dry, so any water we carry on a hike will come from our tank. Going on hikes does reduce the rate that we fill the pee bucket.

Stan

Regardless of toilet choice... looking at your website that is a very nice DIY build.

[InterBlog]

For anyone who is contemplating a composting toilet investment, I would recommend a very practical run-down to determine conclusively what you do and do not want to tolerate.

First invest fifty bucks in one of those basic self-contained marine toilets such as this one, the 5-gallon Palm Springs portable, which is the one I bought several years back when schlepping Girl Scout Daisies on short camping trips.

Put it somewhere in your house and use it for urine only until you've got a couple of gallons. These portables deliver water, but don't use the water - aim for the hole just as you would with a thousand-dollar Air Head or Nature's Head. Handle your TP the same way you would with a composting toilet. If you are a woman with "heavy flow" as Stephanie described in the FitRV vid, too bad - just use the toilet as if it were a composting toilet. The point, after all, is to get an accurate sense of what at least one part of this composting experience is all about.

And then once you've got a couple of gallons of urine collected, dump that urine in your own stick and brick house toilet, just as you would if you were on the road and dumping in a Starbucks toilet.

Then come back to this thread and describe the entire experience. Not the theory, not the hype, not the propaganda - the actual experience of it. The reality.

Speaking as someone who has actually done this (because of the aforesaid Girl Scouts), I predict that you're in for quite a shock.

It's bad form of me to say something like that ^^ and lead any witnesses who might wish to honestly try this experiment, but based on my experience, I think this exercise would settle conclusively what you will and will not wish to inflict on those Starbucks or McDonald's customers who would be the inevitable recipients of the substantial consequences of your routine urine dumps.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

For anyone who is contemplating a composting toilet investment, I would recommend a very practical run-down to determine conclusively what you do and do not want to tolerate.
::
And then once you've got a couple of gallons of urine collected, dump that urine in your own stick and brick house toilet, just as you would if you were on the road and dumping in a Starbucks toilet.
::

To make it realistic,
I would suggest to take the bucket and walk around the house once
before dumping it in the toilet.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by BBQ

To make it realistic,
I would suggest to take the bucket and walk around the house once
before dumping it in the toilet.

Maybe even take it to a McDonalds.

[skagitstan]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

For anyone who is contemplating a composting toilet investment, I would recommend a very practical run-down to determine conclusively what you do and do not want to tolerate.

First invest fifty bucks in one of those basic self-contained marine toilets such as this one, the 5-gallon Palm Springs portable, which is the one I bought several years back when schlepping Girl Scout Daisies on short camping trips.

Put it somewhere in your house and use it for urine only until you've got a couple of gallons. These portables deliver water, but don't use the water - aim for the hole just as you would with a thousand-dollar Air Head or Nature's Head. Handle your TP the same way you would with a composting toilet. If you are a woman with "heavy flow" as Stephanie described in the FitRV vid, too bad - just use the toilet as if it were a composting toilet. The point, after all, is to get an accurate sense of what at least one part of this composting experience is all about.

And then once you've got a couple of gallons of urine collected, dump that urine in your own stick and brick house toilet, just as you would if you were on the road and dumping in a Starbucks toilet.

Then come back to this thread and describe the entire experience. Not the theory, not the hype, not the propaganda - the actual experience of it. The reality.

Speaking as someone who has actually done this (because of the aforesaid Girl Scouts), I predict that you're in for quite a shock.

It's bad form of me to say something like that ^^ and lead any witnesses who might wish to honestly try this experiment, but based on my experience, I think this exercise would settle conclusively what you will and will not wish to inflict on those Starbucks or McDonald's customers who would be the inevitable recipients of the substantial consequences of your routine urine dumps.

Originally Posted by BBQ

To make it realistic,
I would suggest to take the bucket and walk around the house once
before dumping it in the toilet.

For testing purposes, as we first settled on the airhead's location in Annie, I poured some water in it just to see how easy it was to remove a full pee bucket, put on its cap, take it out of Annie, walk off and pour it out into a house toilet. I wanted to make sure there were no clearance issues in that maneuvering.

I had no problem at all doing any of that.

We don't have a pit toilet on our property, so perhaps that part of the test is incomplete, and it never occurred to me that I needed real pee for this test.

Since we are still building Annie, we've only had a couple of short shakedown trips. Never enough to fill the bucket, so I haven't had the chance to see if a bucket full of real pee behaves differently than water in disposing the liquid.

Stan