Composting Toilet

[SouthwestSkies]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Also, I do like the environmentally-friendly aspect of using a composting toilet."

So you're going to use what comes out of your toilet, or donate it?

For me no water used and no chemicals needed are appealing. And actually, we would use it for composting. We are not going to be full-timers. For now (pre-retirement), our longest trips would be 2.5 weeks but more likely 2 weeks. The solids bag would only need to be emptied every 3 weeks from what I understand, so it is feasible for us to not deal with it until we are home and throw it into long-term composting (the Separett bags are biodegradable and made for composting).

It's not for everyone, but I think it could work well for us.

I appreciate the composting toilet option is not for everyone and probably not most people. It's a personal choice for everyone how they choose to deal with RV waste and what would work best for them. I really appreciated TygerMark sharing info on the Separett since I did not know about it. For those looking to go the composting route, it seems like a great option.

[Bud]

"For me no water used and no chemicals needed are appealing. And actually, we would use it for composting."


Chemicals are not necessarily needed, and very little water is used here. I add plenty of water when I dump. Some do not understand that not much water is needed.

Seems like that if I were interested in compositing, I would start at home and not have to hassle with it and then when returning home. I would then find out if I was into composting and not be stuck with a composting toilet in a B. The ARV folks are capable of most anything like a composting toilet sitting over a black water tank for some future or present owner.

I suppose that maybe it is as simple as a 'feeling', and I just don't have it. Terrific that each of us can choose from so many options. One of them being in something like B heaven, ARV.

Bud

[TygerMark]

Like the man said: "If you don't get it.......well, you just don't get it."

[SouthwestSkies]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Seems like that if I were interested in compositing, I would start at home and not have to hassle with it and then when returning home. I would then find out if I was into composting and not be stuck with a composting toilet in a B.

Bud

Bud, that is a great suggestion! We have lots of composting experience but no composting toilet experience. I think the Separett would still require some installation with the fan in a home trial, but it's a good idea to give it a go first before committing to it in a van installation. I'm 99% sure it will work for us, but it's always good to be extra sure. When we get closer to the van build, I will try this out with whatever the latest model will be. Thanks for the idea.

[booster]

I think there are some very strict procedures and rules for composting human waste to assure pathogens are killed off 100% of the time. It may even be against the rules to use the compost on anything that grows edible items, as I am sure it used to be that way.

[TygerMark]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I think of the Separett as an expensive one of these Luggable Loos with an electric powered vent and power twirler to tie a bag.

https://www.rei.com/product/876179/r...ortable-toilet

You have to rely on constant electric power. That is easier said than done in an RV.

Why does anyone think a composting toilet or the Separatt is as environmentally friendly? It is not compost! It is not compost where you eventually dump it to make compost. You have to dispose of it and usually that becomes someone else's problem rather than directly to a sanitary sewer where it is treated properly.

Are you really going to carry bags of poop on an extended trip to bring home to compost and only delay dealing with it?

You still have to go to a dumping station to dispose of your grey water and handle it the same as dumping black and grey tanks only you only have to pull one handle instead of two.

ARV typically provides an 18 gallon black tank and a 28 gallon grey tank. Five-ten minutes every two weeks at a dump station is required. That's it. You never physically see what you are dumping. Clean and sanitary as you make the outside of your hose.

I told you: if your mind is made up, don't read about the Separett......and you didn't!

Fan pulls only 0.19 amps. I am no electrician, but I think if you have 1 flooded acid battery you are good.

[themexicandoctor]

I just went on their website & will do again later.

For those of you who own this technology, which unit did you purchase?

[Bud]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

I just went on their website & will do again later.

For those of you who own this technology, which unit did you purchase?

I would suggest that those that choose one of the new all electric B's, might want to consider the electric toilet. Amp usage may vary depending on how full of it the B owner might be.

Can't imagine just how many battle borns I might need.

[TygerMark]

Originally Posted by Bud

I Can't imagine just how many battle borns I might need.

Oh......I think you can guess.

[TygerMark]

Originally Posted by Bud

I Can't imagine just how many battle borns I might need.

Oh......I think you can guess.

[Roadtech]

I went on the Separett website and saw their "freezing" toilet. Now I think I have seen everything...frozen human waste...that should be an interesting disposal challenge...

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

I went on the Separett website and saw their "freezing" toilet. Now I think I have seen everything...frozen human waste...that should be an interesting disposal challenge...

Actually easy, big fan should help.

[SouthwestSkies]

Originally Posted by booster

I think there are some very strict procedures and rules for composting human waste to assure pathogens are killed off 100% of the time. It may even be against the rules to use the compost on anything that grows edible items, as I am sure it used to be that way.

I would hope there were strict guidelines There are books on this which I imagine anyone attempting this would read beforehand. I have read online it takes six months to turn waste into compost. It's not illegal to put on a vegetable garden if properly composted, although I'd stick to nonedible plants myself!

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I'm with Davydd, Bud, and the others on this one (regular readers know that I'm not always with them, jointly or severally). . .

. . . Segregating poop into a "composting" system (which does not compost) entails disposal of un-dewatered solid waste that is teeming with e. coli. Not only that, there's the additional solid waste of the plastic which must be used to encapsulate it.

All that poop, plastic, and bacteria may go into a permitted landfill, sure, but to argue that as a more responsible choice? I don't see it. It's a larger volume of more infectious and less-degradable waste. . .

Well said InterBlog!!

[InterBlog]

A brief word on composting generally, given that I did it successfully for years, and I watched a zero-waste branch of my own extended family do it successfully for decades...

You will need to have time, energy, and a plan for dealing with disease vectors. The vector that will dominate will depend on your local climate and your mode of composting.

In the north where I grew up, the primary vector was rats. I have vivid memories of my, ahem, "back to the earth" family members standing guard with rifles near the compost pile and shooting them to reduce their numbers (I will make no comment about the hue of their necks).

I didn't want to deal with rats, so when I started composting here in the deep south, I got an Earth Machine. When the bottom is lined with un-chew-able hardware cloth, it does successfully exclude rats. They have enough food alternatives around here that they are not motivated to chew through the plastic.

However, the design is not impervious to cockroaches, nor can it be made impervious to cockroaches, which became my main vector. Those were far harder than rats to control. I made a lot of excellent compost for a lot of years (I was gardening fruits and vegetables at the time), but eventually I just got tired of the teeming roaches. If I had 5 acres in the country, this would be far less of a concern, but I have a suburban home with limited yard space. I couldn't place the Earth Machine far enough away to prevent the roaches from waging war on my home.

Imagine if you had a compost pile that included human waste, and cockroaches trotted happily from there into your kitchen. Yeah.

There's also the ultimate Composting 101 rule - DO NOT include fats or proteins in your compost pile. Both will lead to all kinds of problems. Well, guess what? Human waste has both. From Wiki:

"Fresh feces contains around 75% water and the remaining solid fraction is 84–93% organic solids. These organic solids consist of: 25–54% bacterial biomass, 2–25% protein or nitrogenous matter, 25% carbohydrate or undigested plant matter and 2–15% fat."

^^ With all of those considerations, maybe you could actually compost material from your compositing toilet. But you better be prepared to have the effort consume a great deal of your free time if it is to be done successfully. It would take daily monitoring and management.

Remember, too, that you cannot simply kill roaches with insecticide in this context. Do that, and you will also kill the bugs that are converting the organic matter into compost. It's not an easy problem to solve.

[TygerMark]

“Plains Oak”.”Kansas Coal.” (1)

Just 2 common names that our great plains pioneers gave to the biomass fuel that is widely called the buffalo chip.

Desiccated manure- human and other animal- long have been and currently are being used as fuel sources.

The Separett toilet desiccates solid waste, and the waste (like all wastes) must occasionally be disposed of. Separett recommends that the toilet be emptied at least every 3 to 4 weeks. Of course, one can empty it more often, if one wishes.

One advantage of burning dried animal feces is the resulting soft fire that does not generate sparks. I can hear the comments now, but save them. Each of us deals with feces every day. The squeamish factor is just that. If it doesn’t suit you, fine.

I am going to enjoy a nice campfire from time to time, complete with adult beverages.

1. Dannebrog, Roger L. Welsch, in: Encyclopedia of the Great Plains.

[skagitstan]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

A brief word on composting generally, given that I did it successfully for years, and I watched a zero-waste branch of my own extended family do it successfully for decades...

You will need to have time, energy, and a plan for dealing with disease vectors. The vector that will dominate will depend on your local climate and your mode of composting.

In the north where I grew up, the primary vector was rats. I have vivid memories of my, ahem, "back to the earth" family members standing guard with rifles near the compost pile and shooting them to reduce their numbers (I will make no comment about the hue of their necks).

I didn't want to deal with rats, so when I started composting here in the deep south, I got an Earth Machine. When the bottom is lined with un-chew-able hardware cloth, it does successfully exclude rats. They have enough food alternatives around here that they are not motivated to chew through the plastic.

However, the design is not impervious to cockroaches, nor can it be made impervious to cockroaches, which became my main vector. Those were far harder than rats to control. I made a lot of excellent compost for a lot of years (I was gardening fruits and vegetables at the time), but eventually I just got tired of the teeming roaches. If I had 5 acres in the country, this would be far less of a concern, but I have a suburban home with limited yard space. I couldn't place the Earth Machine far enough away to prevent the roaches from waging war on my home.

Imagine if you had a compost pile that included human waste, and cockroaches trotted happily from there into your kitchen. Yeah.

There's also the ultimate Composting 101 rule - DO NOT include fats or proteins in your compost pile. Both will lead to all kinds of problems. Well, guess what? Human waste has both. From Wiki:

"Fresh feces contains around 75% water and the remaining solid fraction is 84–93% organic solids. These organic solids consist of: 25–54% bacterial biomass, 2–25% protein or nitrogenous matter, 25% carbohydrate or undigested plant matter and 2–15% fat."

^^ With all of those considerations, maybe you could actually compost material from your compositing toilet. But you better be prepared to have the effort consume a great deal of your free time if it is to be done successfully. It would take daily monitoring and management.

Remember, too, that you cannot simply kill roaches with insecticide in this context. Do that, and you will also kill the bugs that are converting the organic matter into compost. It's not an easy problem to solve.

We live on about 13 acres "in the country". It's mostly forest.

Our compost pile is near our veggie beds, which are near our house.

Neither the compost pile or the veggie beds (or our home) are afflicted with rats or roaches. But the pile does keep the garter snakes happy.
Our main pests are the deer and elk eating the veggies & berries and nibbling the fruit trees. And the occasional field mouse trying to set up house in our house.

But back to the original question:

We use an Airhead "composting" toilet in our RV. It works great for the type of camping we do...mostly 1-2 week boondocking, with occasional stops at a more remote FS campground.

I think the term "composting toilet" is a misnomer that throws most folks off. It's better name would be dehydrator.
Absolutely no stink, it's easy to empty the pee bucket, the poop bucket lasts for weeks and is easily disposed of safely in an range of approved methods.

No mess with dumping black tanks or cassettes, which are just mini-black tanks. We don't need to make sure we lug extra fresh H2O for flushing. No issues with leaky or busted valves, or low hanging tanks hurting our ground clearance. We don't need to find an RV dump, which means we don't need to visit overpopulated developed campgrounds.

[TygerMark]

Yes, composting is a relatively poor term to use for the toilets in an RV application rather than a household application.

These toilets are desiccating and diverting.

As verbs the difference between dehydrate and desiccate is that dehydrate is to lose or remove water; desiccate is to dry.

[skagitstan]

Originally Posted by TygerMark

Yes, composting is a relatively poor term to use for the toilets in an RV application rather than a household application.

These toilets are desiccating and diverting.

As verbs the difference between dehydrate and desiccate is that dehydrate is to lose or remove water; desiccate is to dry.

What's the difference between drying and dehydrating? If I dry fruit, or make jerky, aren't I simply removing water?

[TygerMark]

Originally Posted by TygerMark

As verbs the difference between dehydrate and desiccate is that dehydrate is to lose or remove water; desiccate is to dry.