Composting Toilet

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

I know it's not practical in a B van because of the amount of electricity or propane required, but an incinerating toilet would be the ultimate toilet in a RV IMO. I would love to only have to deal with a small amount of ash and no water required. I understand that these are very commonly used in the small European trailers and motorhomes. Not sure how they deal with the power required. Maybe when fuel cells become practical to generate enough power...

I don't think I'd ever want one under any circumstances. But the varying ideas and ingenuity that we place into dealing with our bodily waste in an rv is limitless.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

…………………..
Instead, you have the huge, dry cassette seal leaking stinky air, requiring a continuous exhaust vent to avoid.
Replaced by much more frequent cassette maintenance.

This info doesn’t jibe with my seven years long experience, “dry cassette seal leaking stinky air”, agree with cassette seal, not with dry nor stinking. Black tanks have exhaust, can be powered or by convection just like cassettes.
Frequent maintenance, frequent dumping indeed but not maintenance.

I got it, you don’t like cassettes, I don’t like cassettes nor black tanks either. The dumping method which I disliked the least was the one with 2 buttons 3 miles offshore.

I am glad we have choices, for some black tank with macerator powered discharge is the best fit, for some cassette is best fit, there are many factors in the decision process, mine is not necessarily the best.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Black tanks have exhaust, can be powered or by convection just like cassettes.

What I am saying is that a black tank system in proper repair is fully-sealed at every point either by proper plumbing fixtures or by a water seal. It CANNOT leak gas. Of course it is vented, but there is absolutely no requirement, nor any point in having a power vent. This is quite different from the situation with a cassette.

I fully acknowledge that you have much more experience than I with cassette toilets, and I have no doubt that yours works great. But what experience I have was not at all pleasant (I did not have a power vent, which I am sure would have helped). I would happily write this off as a one-off defective unit, except that the very presence of powered vents on higher-end cassette installations provides confirmation that my experience must not have been unique. It seems clear to me that the nature of their design makes cassettes more challenging to make work well. We can agree to disagree on whether any advantages such a system may have outweigh this.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

…………………………. We can agree to disagree on whether any advantages such a system may have outweigh this.

I agree, this is not the first time we started this discussion.

[dmb496]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

I don't think I'd ever want one under any circumstances. But the varying ideas and ingenuity that we place into dealing with our bodily waste in an rv is limitless.

They work very well. On the railroad I used to work for, we had an on-track engineering department vehicle that was equipped with a burner. It functioned as intended for years. I always found it interesting when I finished my business, closed the lid and hit the burner button.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by dmb496

They work very well. On the railroad I used to work for, we had an on-track engineering department vehicle that was equipped with a burner. It functioned as intended for years. I always found it interesting when I finished my business, closed the lid and hit the burner button.

OK, here's the plan:
We convert the front passenger's seat to one of those convertible seat/toilets like the ones they use in small private jets. Then it would be just a short plumbing run through the firewall to the exhaust manifold....

...never mind.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

OK, here's the plan:
We convert the front passenger's seat to one of those convertible seat/toilets like the ones they use in small private jets. Then it would be just a short plumbing run through the firewall to the exhaust manifold....

...never mind.

Couldn't this system replace the urea injection systems in Sprinters and kill two birds (and maybe other stuff) with one stone/pee bottle?

[GeorgeRa]

I remember those small seat/toilets on corporate jets. I had to use one located midplane, it was embarrassing. We were coming back home from a great diner in New Orleans and I was blasting the symphony. I am not certain but I think they were cassette like, no external tank.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

I know it's not practical in a B van because of the amount of electricity or propane required, but an incinerating toilet would be the ultimate toilet in a RV IMO. ......

Not according to one former owner on Air Forums. TL;DR - "We operated two of these incinerator toilets in the cottages on a little one-acre granite rock of an island. Hated - I mean hated - these toilets. Burn Odor and the burn-bin cleanup afterwards were not pleasant. A lousy choice for the Island and a worse choice for [a Class B]. Sorry, I still have bad memories of this “potty solution.”"

We have a thread on incinerator toilets where we attempted to take a look at the energy demands and other factors.

[TygerMark]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I can’t help to see this image every time there is a heated discussion about the composting toilets. Imagine an RV with rear wall full of patties.

Hey, I am driving down the road with my little load of dried out 'buffalo' chips. And you are driving down the road with your septic tank.

We both roll our vans.

I need a broom and a dust pan for clean up.

What do you need?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by TygerMark

Hey, I am driving down the road with my little load of dried out 'buffalo' chips. And you are driving down the road with your septic tank.

We both roll our vans.

I need a broom and a dust pan for clean up.

What do you need?

Good insurance.

[TygerMark]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Good insurance.

$h!t storm might be an act of God. Be sure and read the fine print.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Not according to one former owner on Air Forums.

Interesting that they are very popular in Europe, especially Germany, France, Norway and Sweden...

[SouthwestSkies]

Originally Posted by TygerMark

If you have your mind made up, and you are in love with black tanks, dump stations, vinyl gloves, sewer hose snakes, stuck gate valves, macerator pumps, cassettes, public toilets, on board water resource consumption, etc (gee, did I miss anything?), then do not read about the Separett desiccating, diverting toilets that have been used in households for 40 years.

Thank you for the info on Separett, which I had not heard of before. This is my first time posting on the forum, so what a thread to join in on!

My husband and I plan on getting an ARV sprinter van--we will attend the next ARVfest (that we feel Covid safe about), rent from them, and then move on to a build. The former two are more formalities, albeit educational ones.

My plan had been to get a Nature's Head composting toilet as I've read great things about it. To address some of the questions posed as to why--I do not want to deal with sewage, and I like the possibility of boondocking for longer. Also, I do like the environmentally-friendly aspect of using a composting toilet.

My biggest concern with the Nature's Head was the frequent need to deal with urine disposal, and in fact had thought to myself, if only someone made a composting toilet that allowed for the liquids to go into a tank. And then TygerMark posted about the Separett, which I have been learning about for a good part of the day.

The Separett, from my research today, has several advantages over the Nature's Head (and other similar composting toilets):
1. No peat moss or coconut coir needs to be added to the solids and then mixed with a crank as with the NH. The Separett relies on a fan to dessicate the solids (removing smell and shrinking the volume).
2. With the NH, one can only go #1 or #2 but not at the same time (Stephanie from a FitRV video actually spoke about this being a bit tricky). Not an issue with the Separett.
3. The urine can be diverted to the grey tank with the Separett or another large container so there would not be a need to dump the liquids every 2-3 days as with the NH.
4. Solid removal is super-easy, just pop open the top of the toilet, close the bag holding the solids, and throw away or add to a composting pile at home (with the NH one has to turn the large holding container upside down and dump it into a garbage bag).

If anyone on this forum has a Separett, I'd love to hear about their experience. From what I've read online, many people who posted said they'd used other composting toilets (some had been through several brands), and that this was far superior.

Also, I just wanted to say I so appreciate the great information on this forum, which I've been reading for a few years and found so very helpful and informative.

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

I understand that these are very commonly used in the small European trailers and motorhomes.

our 2014 trip around Ireland in a rental camper van showed widespread use of cassettes
as evidenced by the line up to dump and the continual sound of plastic wheels on the pavements


the large coaches we use on RocknRoll tours use large holding tank for fluids ( no solids allowed) with unlimited electrical power available



mike

[InterBlog]

BTW, I don't recall seeing this option mentioned in the thread above, but if circumstances compel you to do pure urine separation, or if you just WANT to do that, you don't need to rip out your conventional RV toilet and install a thousand dollar composting toilet or a diverting / separation toilet or whatever. You can functionally accomplish that task for seven bucks and three minutes on Amazon.

There are portable medical devices designed to collect urine. I own this one pictured below, and it is described as male, but I find it works quite well with female anatomy. Without getting too far into TMI territory, I position it above the toilet "just in case something goes wrong" capture-wise - any output deriving from imprecise use would then fall harmlessly into the toilet (that has not happened to me yet).

Why would I do this when I have a conventional black tank set-up?

Because I am lazy. There are times when I'm on the road with a totally clean black tank and I just need to use the toilet ONE TIME, and I don't want to have to dump the black tank because of that one time. So I will make use of the medical jug instead.

Similar approach to solids. They make portable sanitation devices such as what used to be called "wag bags" and such. You can place them essesntially as single-use liners in your conventional RV toilet and dispose of them in the trash.

These considerations are even more important now that the pandemic has made life unpredictable. I used to know where I was going to find my next open dump station - now I do not. Same with campgrounds - some of those that are advertised as "open" have actually locked their restroom doors, forcing people to use their own rigs exclusively. I know of at least one National Park in Canada that is technically "open" but all restrooms are said to be currently locked, and I believe that their dump stations are also locked, so people are using the woods en masse (dumb IMO).
So with all this craziness, I have these other options in the van with me.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

Interesting that they are very popular in Europe, especially Germany, France, Norway and Sweden...

Cultural differences, maybe? I worked briefly in Germany and I noticed that people don't seem to care as much if whatever they are doing happens to get into your face, or their own.

This was particularly true of the ultimate malodorous activity, which is smoking. 25% of Germans still smoke, compared to 15% of Americans at this point. But what was striking to me was the WAY that they smoke. It was in my face quite a bit, intruding into my personal space. As someone from a mixed North American culture, I was very taken aback by it.

[Davydd]

I think of the Separett as an expensive one of these Luggable Loos with an electric powered vent and power twirler to tie a bag.

https://www.rei.com/product/876179/r...ortable-toilet

You have to rely on constant electric power. That is easier said than done in an RV.

Why does anyone think a composting toilet or the Separatt is as environmentally friendly? It is not compost! It is not compost where you eventually dump it to make compost. You have to dispose of it and usually that becomes someone else's problem rather than directly to a sanitary sewer where it is treated properly.

Are you really going to carry bags of poop on an extended trip to bring home to compost and only delay dealing with it?

You still have to go to a dumping station to dispose of your grey water and handle it the same as dumping black and grey tanks only you only have to pull one handle instead of two.

ARV typically provides an 18 gallon black tank and a 28 gallon grey tank. Five-ten minutes every two weeks at a dump station is required. That's it. You never physically see what you are dumping. Clean and sanitary as you make the outside of your hose.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by SouthwestSkies

Thank you for the info on Separett, which I had not heard of before. This is my first time posting on the forum, so what a thread to join in on!

My husband and I plan on getting an ARV sprinter van--we will attend the next ARVfest (that we feel Covid safe about), rent from them, and then move on to a build. The former two are more formalities, albeit educational ones.

My plan had been to get a Nature's Head composting toilet as I've read great things about it. To address some of the questions posed as to why--I do not want to deal with sewage, and I like the possibility of boondocking for longer. Also, I do like the environmentally-friendly aspect of using a composting toilet.

My biggest concern with the Nature's Head was the frequent need to deal with urine disposal, and in fact had thought to myself, if only someone made a composting toilet that allowed for the liquids to go into a tank. And then TygerMark posted about the Separett, which I have been learning about for a good part of the day.

The Separett, from my research today, has several advantages over the Nature's Head (and other similar composting toilets):
1. No peat moss or coconut coir needs to be added to the solids and then mixed with a crank as with the NH. The Separett relies on a fan to dessicate the solids (removing smell and shrinking the volume).
2. With the NH, one can only go #1 or #2 but not at the same time (Stephanie from a FitRV video actually spoke about this being a bit tricky). Not an issue with the Separett.
3. The urine can be diverted to the grey tank with the Separett or another large container so there would not be a need to dump the liquids every 2-3 days as with the NH.
4. Solid removal is super-easy, just pop open the top of the toilet, close the bag holding the solids, and throw away or add to a composting pile at home (with the NH one has to turn the large holding container upside down and dump it into a garbage bag).

If anyone on this forum has a Separett, I'd love to hear about their experience. From what I've read online, many people who posted said they'd used other composting toilets (some had been through several brands), and that this was far superior.

Also, I just wanted to say I so appreciate the great information on this forum, which I've been reading for a few years and found so very helpful and informative.

"Also, I do like the environmentally-friendly aspect of using a composting toilet."

So you're going to use what comes out of your toilet, or donate it?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Also, I do like the environmentally-friendly aspect of using a composting toilet."

So you're going to use what comes out of your toilet, or donate it?

I'm with Davydd, Bud, and the others on this one (regular readers know that I'm not always with them, jointly or severally).

Today's wastewater treatment has advanced to the point where water cleaning and reclamation is big business. Not every plant is upgraded yet, but it's happening.

IF we are going to argue on environmental grounds -- and I don't see why we should in this context of waste minutiae, but let's just say that we do -- IF we want to talk sustainability, then water delivered to a wastewater treatment system and properly cleaned is arguably a more responsible choice.

I did my wastewater operator licensing coursework at a toilet-to-tap facility. Black water delivered to those facilities emerges as potable water. Yes, there is always some amount of solid waste generated from any process. But pound for pound, it is smaller in volume and - importantly - it is no longer infested with e. coli. Nor does it remain entrained in plastic.

Segregating poop into a "composting" system (which does not compost) entails disposal of un-dewatered solid waste that is teeming with e. coli. Not only that, there's the additional solid waste of the plastic which must be used to encapsulate it.

All that poop, plastic, and bacteria may go into a permitted landfill, sure, but to argue that as a more responsible choice? I don't see it. It's a larger volume of more infectious and less-degradable waste.

Are people really going to carry poop around in a van until they find a compost pile?! I think that many people will SAY that it sounds like a good idea, but they simply won't do it in practice. I think y'all will discover that 99% of composting facilities will reject that waste stream because of the pathological risks.