Comparison between Roadtrek & Airstream Interstate

[Davydd]

Well sure, I had some difficult clients in my day, but usually common sense prevailed.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Yeah, the debate can go on and on but the fact remains that if you have the galley on the driver's side like Roadtrek does then you are also going to have a too high countertop and refrigerator and microwave inconveniently under the counter. The only way to counteract that poor situation is to have tall cabinets on both sides of the aisle creating extremely narrow aisles and real cave like claustrophobia. That is true for Sprinters. The Chevys just have too low of everything including head bumper side doors. Roadtrek has been the last Class B holdout for Chevys.

I'm not sure what Roadtrek you are referring to but it doesn't apply to the 210 which we took delivery on last month. The countertop height is perfectly fine. The refrigerator and microwave are not under the counter. The fridge is a twelve volt compressor and a full 5 cu ft. I was surprised that you can keep ice cream hard in the freezer section. The sink and stove are on the wrong side of the coach? This is a joke, right? Is anybody spending sufficient time over a class B sink and stove to need an improved view of their camp site?

The coach is fully loaded: 800 ah lithium, underhood gen, 200w solar panel, & Voltstart. To date, it's operation so far has been flawless. It requires more attention than the Silverleaf system but with a little education, it works fine. The roof AC runs without complaint for hours without triggering the Volt Start. Are there some annoying warts? Yep. When the coach is periodically unattended, you have to shut down some of the batteries to minimize parasitic losses and remember to shut down the inverter which draws 100 watts to simply idle with no loads. There used to be an inverter monitor mode that would look for a demand periodically but the mode confused the electronics on the microwave. Rather than fix the interference issue, they just eliminated the monitor mode.

I don't care how you configure the layout of any Sprinter Van - the laws of physics makes the interior (for me) feel cramped. RT bumps out the rear half of the 210 about 8 inches which doesn't seem like much but the feeling of spaciousness it produces is remarkable.

Yep, your point's taken. You do have to submit to the necessity of bending down a bit to clamber in and out of the Chevy and the entryway is narrow. But, doing the math, it amounts to about .000000001% of the time in the coach.

Now, on the flip side, unlike an ARV buyer, where I didn't get bent over was the purchase cost which was about 118k for a coach loaded with every option available with the same boondocking capacity that ARV offers. The bottom line is that I could buy two of these Chevy 210s (his and hers!) for what an ARV will currently cost to get out the door. Is the ARV a higher quality product than the Roadtrek. Are the electronics more refined? No argument there. That said, will the ARV provide you twice as much pleasure as I will enjoy with a Chevy 210 and take you to twice as many places as I might go? Hardly. Come on - like anything that's top of the line, the ARV build is sublime but in terms of the RV bang for the buck, the value is just ridiculous.

[Bud]

It is sometimes called 'diminishing returns'.

Bud

[gregmchugh]

Well, ARV has a nice backlog and no intent to grow very large and a very talented group of people and a very happy customer base so I guess they must be doing something that seems to have a spot in the market, clearly a small segment at the high end of the market...

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Well, ARV has a nice backlog and no intent to grow very large and a very talented group of people and a very happy customer base so I guess they must be doing something that seems to have a spot in the market, clearly a small segment at the high end of the market...

I missed ARV Fest this year, but last year they said their stated goal was to max out at about 50 per year. You buy direct with no dealer middle man and you custom order your B (which most order fully loaded cargo vans with a sticker price in excess of $50,000 and go from there sitting down with them and selecting your systems, options, materials and designing your layout. There are basics. They only build on 170" WB Sprinters and you do start with a basic floor plan layout.

The price was the price. I didn't negotiate with them like you would with a dealer. I had a goal of what I wanted and if I could afford it, I got it. My biggest goal was to implement my design of electrically operated articulating beds that could be adjusted three ways (head, back and foot) in any infinite position. They accepted the challenge and at the time there were no US manufacturers that could provide actuating mechanisms to make the design work. That fortunately came four months later.

I've met quite a few ARV owners. None were bargain hunting and they were not all rich though I suspect quite a few have money as many were quite successful in their careers it seems. The common denominator was being able to get exactly what they wanted and those have been quite diverse wants since no two Advanced RVs seem very identical. What did I get? I got the most comfortable Class B one could wish for especially on a rainy day when cooped up inside.

The other important aspect is they don't compromise on quality in any area, be it visible or invisible to you and they don't wait for the "next model year." They seek the best solution they can find at the time. They are not competing one to one with other converters to keep dealers happy.

One of the frustrating things with early adopters of ARVs is the next one seems to be always better. When I picked up mine, they were building that 360 degree camera in the next one on the line. ARV owners also express, "Why didn't I think of that?" when they see new ARVs in production. The customers seem to bring the ideas.

Lastly, they treat their customers extremely well. They've done complimentary upgrades when they learn something new if it can be done. If you have problems on the road they come to you or they make arrangements with a dealer be it an RV dealer or Mercedes Benz. Example: I had an VB Air Suspension bladder leak last spring when I was in Marshall, Texas. They made arrangements with a local MB dealer to replace the bladder, overnight shipped it to the dealer and I went in and had it installed with no waiting and no cost to me in Shreveport, LA. I was in and out in under two hours.

[mojoman]

My builder did everything I wanted and spent an inordinate amount of time custom fitting to maximize space, sealing all sides of all wood components made up of marine grade and hard woods, insulating and sound proofing using the most efficient materials currently made, inside, outside, and within the cabinet structures. All hardware and electrical components are high end marine grade, either SS or brass fasteners. Cost for components were much lower than list price due to diligent shopping and the totally new, exactly as I wanted, custom made Class b cost me under $60K because I was the builder.
Imagine what it would cost if I could buy materials and components at a MFG price.
I would guess over 50% the cost of a ARV unit is labor and profit which is perfectly acceptable for those who want what they want and have the disposable income to treat themselves. Value isn't the motivator for those who have a custom anything built. As in car shows, there are those who buy and those who build them.

[Teja]

Originally Posted by mojoman

My builder did everything I wanted and spent an inordinate amount of time custom fitting... and the totally new, exactly as I wanted, custom made Class b cost me under $60K because I was the builder.

Mojoman, I admire you for being able to get the custom-built Class B you wanted for under $60K because you were the builder, and I'm sure many on this forum wish they could do the same...including me. And although I'm handy with tools and smart with discount purchasing of parts & supplies, every time I've envisioned buying a stripped down Sprinter and slogging through outfitting it myself, I've felt too overwhelmed. For me, it seems like a year-long project with many trial-&-error missteps, so I guess, like many here, I'm more prone to just paying a manufacturer to do all that for me...hopefully with good design & quality.

Perhaps it's my age, or being retired and just wanting to get out on the road, but I'm sure self-building is beyond the desire or capability of many here.

[Teja]

I started posting in this thread on Sept. 15, 2016, a good 2 years since the original last post in Oct. of 2014. I was attracted to it because of it's title - Comparison between Roadtrek & Airstream Interstate - because we wanted to buy our first Class B and those 2 brands were at the top of our short list. I didn't even know if anyone would respond, since no one had visited this thread for two years.

My objective was to find which was the "best," most spacious, functional and trouble-free Class B for a married couple who intend to spend weeks at a time touring the Western states and Nat'l Parks. My original leaning towards the Roadtrek RS/CS series was because Sande at Stay Adventurous Roadtrek Rentals told me none of the other brands of Class Bs - Pleasure Way, LT, Winnie, etc. - even came close to Roadtreks design and quality, and backed it up with experience of renting hundreds of these in 11 states.

I hoped joining a thread comparing Roadtrek and Airstream, and perhaps any other manufacturer that members felt strong about, would help us answer all our questions and narrow down our search. Now this "revived" thread has swelled from 2 to 5+ pages (thanks for the lively participation, guys!)...and I have more questions and choices than ever !

Here's what I've learned from this thread:
- RT Adventurous and AI are indeed very good Class Bs, but price and certain design decisions are questionable, as is RT's recent quality since new ownership in 2010.
- 2 brands I didn't even know about, Advanced RV and Great West, could be quite superior to RT or AI...but Advanced RVs are only for those who can plop down $200K+, and Great West is out of business. A used GW could still surpass a RT or AI in design & quality, but they're hard to find and no longer have a company standing behind them.
- Everyone here has their own particular favorite manufacturers and design choices, and many are quite opinionated about their preferences - witness Davydd's and booster's passsenger-side/driver's side galley placement and counter-height debate a few posts back.

In the end, it seems like the best Class B is the one that's best for you, the one you most like the look, feel, design and functionality...and price...of, and as such, it's a very subjective thing.

For us, it seems that means lots of hands-on looking and driving of many manufacturers/models till we experience first-hand which one is our "best." That means a lot more time spent visiting lots of dealerships, many which are hours away from us. But if we want to try all the salient brands & models to settle on the best for us, there's no way around it. It seems clear that no one on this thread on anywhere else is just going to tell us, "This is the best one, look no further, this is the one you want to purchase."

Which is OK. I really appreciate all of your weigh-ins, even the ones which seemed a bit off the main topic. I'll keep looking and keep participating here

[mojoman]

I think its more desire than capability as there's so much information out there instantly on most anything And tools are so much cheaper than in the past. I'm retired in my 60's and working with all new quality materials and parts eased the effort compared with restoring old cars. You can do a better job than anyone else because you don't have to worry about billing hours. Also a novice usually has better standards as they don't know what you can get away with.

[gregmchugh]

Teja,

I suggest you at least review the Class B vans from Winnebago and Pleasure Way as part of your evaluation, with Roadtrek and Winnebago these are the top 4 in sales...

Winnebago is the leader in sales and provides good value...

Pleasure Way gets good marks for quality...

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Well, ARV has a nice backlog and no intent to grow very large and a very talented group of people and a very happy customer base so I guess they must be doing something that seems to have a spot in the market, clearly a small segment at the high end of the market...

I think their business plan of avoiding the middle ground and concentrating on the high end is a niche market winner. And the unique reward that ARV owners enjoy is their active participation in the build and the personal relationship with the builders. For those that can afford the cost, that's worth plenty.

[obgraham]

Just back from a couple of weeks in the Canadian Rockies in the CS ETrek. Actually everything in the rig worked as designed, and the Alde kept us quite toasty down to some 28 degree nights. Very impressive. Except the one night where something in there was vibrating with quite a racket. I'll pull the covers and see is something is rubbing somewhere.

But here's my take: If I were to design my own, say via ARV, I'd use their skill and experience at designing the cabinetry and layout to be ideal for me. But then I'd like to get RID of all the technical gadgetry that to me just makes my life more complicated.

So no Silverleaf. No power awning. No power sofa. No voltage/amp/watt obsession. In fact, no TV or DVD (have never turned them on!). Just comfy beds, plenty of battery, an efficient way to recharge, and bigger tanks.

Maybe someday. If I'm not dead first.

[booster]

Originally Posted by obgraham

Just back from a couple of weeks in the Canadian Rockies in the CS ETrek. Actually everything in the rig worked as designed, and the Alde kept us quite toasty down to some 28 degree nights. Very impressive. Except the one night where something in there was vibrating with quite a racket. I'll pull the covers and see is something is rubbing somewhere.

But here's my take: If I were to design my own, say via ARV, I'd use their skill and experience at designing the cabinetry and layout to be ideal for me. But then I'd like to get RID of all the technical gadgetry that to me just makes my life more complicated.

So no Silverleaf. No power awning. No power sofa. No voltage/amp/watt obsession. In fact, no TV or DVD (have never turned them on!). Just comfy beds, plenty of battery, an efficient way to recharge, and bigger tanks.

Maybe someday. If I'm not dead first.

I think somebody said that ARV won't do theirs without the fancy electronics. Might have been davydd.

I too would love to have the ARV quality and service, but without all the tied in integration of everything. Standalone inverter/chargers, solar, engine generator systems can work just fine, and when on the road, they can be fixed or shut off in you want if they break.

[wincrasher]

There are a few more offerings out there that I would consider. If you like the Roadtrek floor plans, you should look at the Coachmen Galleria models.

They have an Adventurous knockoff that looks really good. Of course, there is no tech in the Coachmen, but they do have solar and you can get an induction cooktop. The units we saw at Hershey had great fit and finish and their cabinetry was excellent (all wood) with some nice features (like a pull out garbage can). They also claim the largest bath in a Sprinter, which may be true - I found it quite roomy and big enough to shower without stooping over.

The best part is they are selling for $99,999. Marked down from $135k. Could make a good "starter" coach for those wanting a Sprinter.

[Teja]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Of course, there is no tech in the Coachmen....

Thanks for the tip, I did look at the Galleria online. What did you mean, "there is no tech in the Coachmen...?

We're starting to lean towards the galley on the passenger side, not behind driver seat. All 7 Coachmen floorplans only offer a driver's side galley, as do the 2 floorplans for Roadtrek CS. Over the next few weeks, we'll try to do a lot of walk-throughs and test drives of many manufacturers, to get a feel for all these layouts and see if driver-side galley is a deal-breaker. Class B dealers are far away from us - 2 hours to a days drive - so it's gonna take some time

Speaking of which... do you or anyone know of a large Class B RV show in or near So. California? We know about some of the big ones in Hershey and the Midwest, but is anyone holding one out West here in the next 6 months?

[Viperml]

The Pomona RV show is the next big one. October 17.
RVIA's 64th Annual California RV Show - RVIA 64th Annual California RV Show

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by Teja

Thanks for the tip, I did look at the Galleria online. What did you mean, "there is no tech in the Coachmen...?

We're starting to lean towards the galley on the passenger side, not behind driver seat. All 7 Coachmen floorplans only offer a driver's side galley, as do the 2 floorplans for Roadtrek CS. Over the next few weeks, we'll try to do a lot of walk-throughs and test drives of many manufacturers, to get a feel for all these layouts and see if driver-side galley is a deal-breaker. Class B dealers are far away from us - 2 hours to a days drive - so it's gonna take some time

Speaking of which... do you or anyone know of a large Class B RV show in or near So. California? We know about some of the big ones in Hershey and the Midwest, but is anyone holding one out West here in the next 6 months?

Yes the Pomona show is great and they'll be debuting the Paseo there as well.

What I mean by "no tech" is that they don't have the lithium batteries, underhood generator or engine autostart systems you can get in the Roadtrek. They don't have any elborate touch screen control systems either. They do have the Truma combi heating & hot water system though.

[mlts22]

Originally Posted by obgraham

Just back from a couple of weeks in the Canadian Rockies in the CS ETrek. Actually everything in the rig worked as designed, and the Alde kept us quite toasty down to some 28 degree nights. Very impressive. Except the one night where something in there was vibrating with quite a racket. I'll pull the covers and see is something is rubbing somewhere.

But here's my take: If I were to design my own, say via ARV, I'd use their skill and experience at designing the cabinetry and layout to be ideal for me. But then I'd like to get RID of all the technical gadgetry that to me just makes my life more complicated.

So no Silverleaf. No power awning. No power sofa. No voltage/amp/watt obsession. In fact, no TV or DVD (have never turned them on!). Just comfy beds, plenty of battery, an efficient way to recharge, and bigger tanks.

Maybe someday. If I'm not dead first.

When I was doing my Transit build, that was my thing, where there was no multiplexed wiring, and the most complicated thing was having everything run from a hybrid inverter. My goal is something that still can function 10-20 years from now. If I had the cash, I'd also go with ARV for the cabinet making, because they can do CNC work and curved doors, maximizing every square inch of space. Plus, ARV could also do some specialized stuff, such as adding a floor pan, so I could have an aisle shower, replace the rear doors with custom ones which bulge, adding a few inches of extra room, adding bump-outs with windows for the ability to sleep transversely, and so on. The one thing that stood out with ARV for me, is how well they did Davydd's safe, ensuring that laptops don't disappear when away from the van.

[Keyne]

Another suggestion is to rent a class B. We rented one several times this Summer and it really really cleared up questions we had about what is important to US... everyone's needs are different and all RV's are compromises so it's important to know what YOU want. We looked at a bunch but the renting really cleared it up. It was interesting to me how quickly the list became short once we decided what we really wanted. Also, enjoy the process; the search is part of the fun!

[Teja]

Originally Posted by Keyne

Another suggestion is to rent a class B. We rented one several times this Summer and it really really cleared up questions we had about what is important to US...

Yes, renting one to check out your own personal driving and interior needs is what we started with, too. The only place we could find that rented them (in the California area) for 4 days to two weeks was here:

Mercedes Roadtrek / Sprinter camper van rental

Since they rent only Roadtrek RS/CS Adventurous, I assume people on this forum have heard of them. Our only hesitation was the price. A week-long rental, with taxes, mileage, out-the-door was gonna run about $3,000...we started to feel like, hey that's already a nice chunk towards the down payment of owning one. Maybe we can just get clear which one's for us through asking around (like on this forum) and visiting dealerships for walk-through-test-drives, and just buy the right one without wasting $3 grand for a week-long "test drive."

If you know of any other places that might rent near us, not so expensive, please chime in, thx.