Coachmen Ford Transit Crossfit

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Several of the small upfitters have probed the edges of the direct-sales minefield. Advanced RV sells direct. As a consequence, they are not allowed into the Hershey Show (and probably others). Beyond that, I suspect they are too small for there to be consequences. Now, if they ever grew out of niche status, it might be another matter.

GWV was also experimenting with direct sales just before they folded. (I don't think these events were related)

An even simpler solution might be to teach pigs to fly.

If Tesla sold all their autos direct from their factory they would not have a problem with state laws and dealers. That's what Advanced RV does so the comparison is not similar. Tesla needs mass sales. Advanced RV announced and maintains a consistent business model they determined is what their goal is and it is not mass sales. If that changed then their business model would probably change as well to go to dealers.

GWVan had a dealership but just a few and oddly none in Canada when I bought mine. Also, when I bought mine under the original ownership you had to go through a dealer. Their problem is they couldn't keep the few dealers they had satisfied. Going direct by the new ownership was toying around for a solution and the results spoke.

Almost all RV shows are dealer shows (and not manufacturer shows) that allow public participation. Manufacturer shows like Louisville have only industry participation, not public. Advanced RV has no dealers nor are seeking dealers, so participation in shows is not part of their business model that I can see. So far it has been word of mouth, social media, Internet web page and a rental program in Ohio and Southern California that seems to give them more customers than they can handle at this time.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

If Tesla sold all their autos direct from their factory they would not have a problem with state laws and dealers. That's what Advanced RV does so the comparison is not similar.

What makes you believe this? Almost every state has an automotive franchise law that requires all motor vehicles (usually including RVs) be sold by an entity that holds a "dealer license". In many states, there are laws that forbid manufacturers from being issued such a license. Do you know for a fact that Ohio is not one of these states? I do not know this one way or another. But I do know that the Ohio dealers ass'n was lobbying for such a law a few years ago, specifically in response to the "Tesla threat":

Auto dealers push legislation to keep Tesla Motors out of Ohio | cleveland.com

These are state-level laws, so no generalization is possible. But it makes no difference whether a given manufacturer sells "all their autos direct from their factory" or not, so the Tesla comparison is certainly valid.

GWVan had a dealership but just a few[...] Going direct by the new ownership was toying around for a solution and the results spoke.

As I said, there is no evidence that GWV's (very small) experiment in direct sales had anything to do with their demise.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

What makes you believe this? Almost every state has an automotive franchise law that requires all motor vehicles (usually including RVs) be sold by an entity that holds a "dealer license". In many states, there are laws that forbid manufacturers from being issued such a license. Do you know for a fact that Ohio is not one of these states? I do not know this one way or another. But I do know that the Ohio dealers ass'n was lobbying for such a law a few years ago, specifically in response to the "Tesla threat":

Auto dealers push legislation to keep Tesla Motors out of Ohio | cleveland.com

These are state-level laws, so no generalization is possible. But it makes no difference whether a given manufacturer sells "all their autos direct from their factory" or not, so the Tesla comparison is certainly valid.


As I said, there is no evidence that GWV's (very small) experiment in direct sales had anything to do with their demise.

You tried to link Advanced RV to Tesla's dealer issues in the various states. That's what I was commenting to. Advanced RV from inception never had dealers and clearly stated why in their business plan.

As for Great West Van, how do you know trying direct sales didn't tick off dealers? Let's put it another way, GWVan's demise was inexperience and poor decision making. As I said, the results spoke.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You tried to link Advanced RV to Tesla's dealer issues in the various states. That's what I was commenting to. Advanced RV from inception never had dealers and clearly stated why in their business plan.

All I am saying is that ARV per force operates in (at least) ONE state. That state's dealer laws apply. Their "business plan" has nothing to do with it.

As far as I can see, they are only getting away with it because, unlike Tesla, they are too small to attract attention.

As for Great West Van, how do you know trying direct sales didn't tick off dealers?

I don't know. What I said was that there is no evidence.

[gregmchugh]

Is ARV selling vehicles or is ARV selling upfitting of a vehicle that clearly was sold by a Mercedes dealer who was clearly in compliance with the laws of whatever state they are in?

Do these laws even apply to a camper conversion company that is simply modifying a vehicle?

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Davydd

As for Great West Van, how do you know trying direct sales didn't tick off dealers? Let's put it another way, GWVan's demise was inexperience and poor decision making. As I said, the results spoke.

GWV had few dealers to start with, but I think their HUGE mistake was moving to the US. If they were trying to do direct sales, there was zero evidence that they were doing so... no advertising... no functioning website... almost no production.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Is ARV selling vehicles or is ARV selling upfitting of a vehicle that clearly was sold by a Mercedes dealer who was clearly in compliance with the laws of whatever state they are in?

If the vehicle is originally titled to the upfitter's end customer, then I am pretty sure that for purposes of these laws, the upfitter is the "manufacturer", MB is simply a "supplier", and all the nonsense applies. N.B., however, that (a) I am no expert; and (b) this all varies from state to state.

Do these laws even apply to a camper conversion company that is simply modifying a vehicle?

That is a good question. The Ohio law exempts snowmobiles and "manufactured or mobile homes". However, "Mobile home" is define as

a building unit or assembly of closed construction that is fabricated in an off-site facility, is more than thirty-five body feet in length or, when erected on site, is three hundred twenty or more square feet, is built on a permanent chassis, is transportable in one or more sections, and does not qualify as a manufactured home as defined in division (C)(4) of section 3781.06 of the Revised Code or as an industrialized unit as defined in division (C)(3) of section 3781.06 of the Revised Code.

So, I think that (in Ohio), the answer is "yes".

[booster]

I may have to do more with the van transaction to the RV upfitter than the final to the customer. In ARV's case, they seem to be buying the vans to the customer wants, and they likely get them through a dealer in such low quantities. If so, they could probably "jump" the title to final customer directly from the MB dealer. This is often what is done on used cars by lots, to save on transferring the vehicle multiple times. I would think that would just make them a contractor on the customer's van, and not the seller of that van.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I may have to do more with the van transaction to the RV upfitter than the final to the customer. In ARV's case, they seem to be buying the vans to the customer wants, and they likely get them through a dealer in such low quantities. If so, they could probably "jump" the title to final customer directly from the MB dealer. This is often what is done on used cars by lots, to save on transferring the vehicle multiple times. I would think that would just make them a contractor on the customer's van, and not the seller of that van.

Dunno if that is possible. But, it is certainly not what happened with either of our vans (Airstream Interstate & GWV Legend). In both cases, the upfitter added another VIN to the vehicle and they were the manufacturer of record on the title. GWV did acquire the vehicle through a dealer (the same one that ARV uses, BTW), but the dealer was in no visible way involved in the purchase. In neither case was the vehicle ever titled except to us.

[booster]

I think most if not all are done that way. Doing it the mentioned way would be more hassle, for sure, and only done if they got into trouble, I would think.

How does Sportsmobile do it? I think they require you to buy the appropriate van, right into your name, and then take it to them for upfitting.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by booster

How does Sportsmobile do it? I think they require you to buy the appropriate van, right into your name, and then take it to them for upfitting.

GTRV does it that way - you buy the van and they upfit for you. After you select the van they "........set you up with a dealer local to us that will deliver your van once in, they offer fleet pricing to our customers. So you make your best deal and provide us with your van."

[booster]

Originally Posted by BobB

GTRV does it that way - you buy the van and they upfit for you. After you select the van they "........set you up with a dealer local to us that will deliver your van once in, they offer fleet pricing to our customers. So you make your best deal and provide us with your van."

That model makes sense in a lot of ways. The RV upfitter doesn't tie up his money, and have to charge markup to cover that cost, plus I would guess they make some profit on it too.

[vroom]

The Fit RV just released the first video on the Crossfit that I've seen:

http://www.thefitrv.com/rv-reviews/t...ur-first-look/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW5HSGMaqDs

[talktodean]

CROSSFiT will be powered by the 3.7l V6.

[talktodean]

You forgot the cockpit view guys.

[SiennaGuy]

The CrossFit really looked good until James got in the bed. He's about 5' 10-1/2 (70.5 inches). My guess is that the bed is only about 60-65 inches long. That's probably the shortest bed in any current major brand Class B.

What's really strange is the the Winnebago Paseo, another Ford Transit Class B, also has a bed that goes across the back. Winnebago gives its measurement as 72" long (See the attached Paseo floorplan). Does the interior paneling in the CrossFit take up 3.5 to 4 inches on each side? If not, where did the extra space go?

[NorthPotomac]

Did I miss it, or did they not discuss the batteries? AGM? Lithium?

[cruisefx]

Originally Posted by NorthPotomac

Did I miss it, or did they not discuss the batteries? AGM? Lithium?

In the write up on their website, they indicated "the batteries on this rig were pretty basic lead-acid batteries"

[jrobe]

Originally Posted by SiennaGuy

The CrossFit really looked good until James got in the bed. He's about 5' 10-1/2 (70.5 inches). My guess is that the bed is only about 60-65 inches long. That's probably the shortest bed in any current major brand Class B.

What's really strange is the the Winnebago Paseo, another Ford Transit Class B, also has a bed that goes across the back. Winnebago gives its measurement as 72" long (See the attached Paseo floorplan). Does the interior paneling in the CrossFit take up 3.5 to 4 inches on each side? If not, where did the extra space go?

The conversion width in the Ford Transit with any kind of insulation in the walls is about 69" which is probably what both the Crossfit and Passeo really are. If you look closely at the bedroom pictures of the Passeo, they probably include a couple inches under the windows (they must not have hardly any insulation there).

The bottom line is that unless you are pretty short, it is difficult to sleep crosswise in a Transit. It seems foolish to even design an RV that only works for shorter people, especially when you using the longer Transit chassis that could accommodate lengthwise sleeping.

[BBQ]

.

Nice rig. I like it.