Coachman Galleria - FitRV Video Review

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

I don't think so. Mercedes apparently worked with VB in the design of the system but the actual installation in Europe is still done by VB installers, not Mercedes. When Mike Neundorfer did the u-tube he indicated that 11,000 units
had already been installed by VB in Europe.

I guess ex-factory means the option gets installed after the factory build.

"PL9 Option Mercedes-Benz
Placed on 11/08/2010

From September 2009, the Full Air suspension for the rear axle will be available ex-factory from Mercedes-Benz.

The PL9 Option will be provided on almost all sprinter models except the low floor chassis.

Initially, the Air suspension will be available for the Netherlands, Germany , Luxembourg , Switzerland and the Far East.

From the beginning of 2010, the suspension will be available in more countries throughout Europe and the rest of the world.

This is, For VB-Airsuspension, a huge success and we are very proud.

For more information you can ask you local Mercedes-Benz dealer for the PL9 Option."

http://www.vbairsuspension.co.uk/en/news/288/pl9-option-mercedes-benz.html

[avanti]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

I'd like to learn more about this. Can you tell me where I can find the legal constraints on warranty disclaimers? Thanks.

Google "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act". Be prepared to drink from a fire hose.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I guess ex-factory means the option gets installed after the factory build.

Considering the Mercedes has a myriad of customer options on their Sprinter build sheet that look like they wouldn't be offered very often, it seems counter intuitive that they don't include include the suspension option. There are lots of things provided in the aftermarket that might well be as cost effective as doing it at the factory, but I don't think this is one of them. I wonder why they don't just buy VB and get it over with.

[Davydd]

Advanced RV has a lot of springs and other suspension parts after they install the VB Air Suspension. They have been donating them to a local artist who makes sculptures with them.

There are a lot of things that get discarded from a factory delivered Sprinter. My dash radio was one of them. I also upgraded speakers. Some people upgrade tires from day one. ARV reupholsters all seats and completely replaces some with fancy Italian seats. MB doesn't offer the second under hood alternator either but does provide brackets for them.

You also have to design to install VB Air Suspension. After market it could be done on a Roadtrek but there are several major Roadtrek installed modifications that have to be changed to do so reports one owner that had it done in Burnsville, MN. Airstream's first VB Air Suspension was probably done after market since Colonial RV was touting it long before Airstream acknowledged it and added it to their options. ARV rarely sells one without it since they became approved installers. At least I don't know of one. It cost me about $7,000 two years ago.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Advanced RV has a lot of springs and other suspension parts after they install the VB Air Suspension. They have been donating them to a local artist who makes sculptures with them.

There are a lot of things that get discarded from a factory delivered Sprinter. My dash radio was one of them. I also upgraded speakers. Some people upgrade tires from day one. ARV reupholsters all seats and completely replaces some with fancy Italian seats. MB doesn't offer the second under hood alternator either but does provide brackets for them.

You also have to design to install VB Air Suspension. After market it could be done on a Roadtrek but there are several major Roadtrek installed modifications that have to be changed to do so reports one owner that had it done in Burnsville, MN. Airstream's first VB Air Suspension was probably done after market since Colonial RV was touting it long before Airstream acknowledged it and added it to their options. ARV rarely sells one without it since they became approved installers. At least I don't know of one. It cost me about $7,000 two years ago.

Wouldn't this same system cost one hell of a lot less if it was done at the factory? 1/2? 1/3? Maybe 1/4?

Since you experienced both before BV and after BV, I'd appreciate your assessment of what you got for the investment in terms of comfort, vehicle handling etc. And do you know if you can go directly to a Mercedes for this retrofit or is it limited to coach builders?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Wouldn't this same system cost one hell of a lot less if it was done at the factory? 1/2? 1/3? Maybe 1/4?

Since you experienced both before BV and after BV, I'd appreciate your assessment of what you got for the investment in terms of comfort, vehicle handling etc. And do you know if you can go directly to a Mercedes for this retrofit or is it limited to coach builders?

It is a difficult change over so is limited by VB Air Suspension to certified installers with trained mechanics. I imagine there may be some independent MB dealers by now but it would not be widespread. The only VB installations in North America before Advanced RV were done on non-RV Sprinters. As I mentioned about that Roadtrek Sprinter that had it done, that was not done by an RV upfitter, RV dealer or MB. I imagine ambulances would get the installation but not a plumber's van. Baltimore is probably thinking about it now for their paddy wagons.

VB Air Suspension is a third party and not Mercedes Benz. Could it be done cheaper in a factory? Who knows? There are actually so few that maybe tooling up to do it on a production line would not be cost effective. There probably is not a lot of need for most Sprinters. But the fact is MB doesn't do it but we don't know what could come down in the future. They are probably biding their time with status quo until they open up the new American factory. I don't consider it a subject to dwell on.

If one wants it, they can get it done after market even after buying from an RV upfitter. Again as I mentioned it might not be all that cost effective if you have to re-route lines or turn an Onan generator 90 degrees as that Roadtrek owner I mentioned had to do. We don't know if that first Airstream had to do anything extraordinary to make it happen but now that Airstream adds it as an option I am sure they design and account for it. I've also seen it installed on a LTV Serenity Sprinter RV.

Is it worth it? 2-1/2 years ago I drove a route with an ARV with VB Air Suspension both driving and sitting on the back sofa and then immediately after while the ride was fresh in experience I did the same with my Great West Van Legend Sprinter. The difference was significant and the complaints about riding in the back go away. Also, when you pull out and turn across a slight driveway curb into the street you don't rock side to side. It does make it more stable in winds but that was hard to test on a windless day but I suspect like the curb you don't rock as much. You don't get that jarring rear end sound. There is some but nothing like without. It smooths out the road for you but there is no front end VB Air Suspension to make the ride nearly perfect. A side benefit is it keeps you van level under all loading conditions. The last benefit is there is a 2" play either up or down (4" total) that you can control for leveling in a camp site. That eliminated needing blocking numerous times. You can't level side to side. There is no air pressure adjustment like the old Firestone air bags.

Yes, I thought it was worth every penny. I was out to build the best I could get. You ought to see what I paid for my articulating beds I designed.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Well that makes more sense, much ado about nothing, back to regularly scheduled programming...

Sorry to interfere with regularly scheduled programming but there appears to be a difference between what is specified in their brochure (AGM) and what is installed in the coach. In talking with American RV today, they confirmed that the batteries in the coaches delivered to them have been flooded cell. They did get a new one in today and will check to see if that has changed.

What is also interesting is how their electrical system sets up. Their entire entertainment system is 12 volts because they don't employ an inverter in the Galleria which is unusual. Consequently, using the induction stove or the microwave requires shore power or firing up the Onan. Their stove option is the reverse of the typical format - the induction stove is standard and a propane stove is optional. Induction stoves are usually coupled with eliminating a propane requirement, but since they are providing the Truma system rather than a diesel fired one, a propane system is still required.

I get the feeling there's a work in progress here, but these folks really seem dedicated to building a quality product. It sure is nice to see more competition entering the class B world.

I think their Galleria brochure is artfully done and illustrates some very nice touches in their product. I don't know if the multiplicity of layouts is profitable for the builder, but it's sure a winner for the buyer.

http://www.coachmenrv.com/brochures/...iabrochure.pdf

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You ought to see what I paid for my articulating beds I designed.

Maybe a royalty payment to you for each sale of your design would have reduced the cost...

[f8hasit]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Sorry to interfere with regularly scheduled programming but there appears to be a difference between what is specified in their brochure (AGM) and what is installed in the coach. In talking with American RV today, they confirmed that the batteries in the coaches delivered to them have been flooded cell. They did get a new one in today and will check to see if that has changed.

What is also interesting is how their electrical system sets up. Their entire entertainment system is 12 volts because they don't employ an inverter in the Galleria which is unusual. Consequently, using the induction stove or the microwave requires shore power or firing up the Onan. Their stove option is the reverse of the typical format - the induction stove is standard and a propane stove is optional. Induction stoves are usually coupled with eliminating a propane requirement, but since they are providing the Truma system rather than a diesel fired one, a propane system is still required.

I get the feeling there's a work in progress here, but these folks really seem dedicated to building a quality product. It sure is nice to see more competition entering the class B world.

I think their Galleria brochure is artfully done and illustrates some very nice touches in their product. I don't know if the multiplicity of layouts is profitable for the builder, but it's sure a winner for the buyer.

http://www.coachmenrv.com/brochures/...iabrochure.pdf

The entertainment system works quite well. You can watch a movie or other media and have it play on both TV's or different programing on both. As for the induction stove VS propane, you would be using propane either way but the induction top heats much faster so in our experience you still use less propane running the generator for use of the induction cooktop. The refrigerator runs 12v or 120v. We did change the batteries out. probably will add an inverter in the future.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Maybe a royalty payment to you for each sale of your design would have reduced the cost...

I wish. I do doubt I ate any of the development cost. It had to be huge.

[Davydd]

In effect Coachmen must have a big RV mentality assuming their B will go and camp the way Class As do at hookup campgrounds.

I'm just the opposite. I want to be off the grid and off shore power as many chances as I can.

[f8hasit]

Originally Posted by Davydd

In effect Coachmen must have a big RV mentality assuming their B will go and camp the way Class As do at hookup campgrounds.

I'm just the opposite. I want to be off the grid and off shore power as many chances as I can.

You very well could be right? I am a total rookie to all this "shore power, boon docking" stuff, well RV'ing in general, but we have gone for several days "off the grid" with no issues. I don't think it would be good without a re-supply for much longer than that. It comes standard with 100w of solar and we added an additional 160 watts of solar. I am finding that travel in general in this thing is a wonderful experience. The journey in a class B is about as much fun as the destination!

[Davydd]

My thoughts went mainly to that induction cooktop which requires shore power or running the generator to use. It presupposes you are going to traditional hookup campgrounds like the big RVs. If there is one thing that bugs me the most in a state park, national forest, national park wooded and quiet nature enjoying campground setting is people running generators. I'm guilty of that with my past Class Bs but was so reticent that I would not do it unless there were several others already running. So I suffered and waited for that cacophony of noise to start up.

I have the induction cooktop but also the inverter and battery power to use it without need of an Onan generator which I now don't have. More important (especially for my wife) is being able to brew that first and fast cup of coffee in a Keurig upon getting up in the morning while quiet hours are still in effect.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by f8hasit

You very well could be right? I am a total rookie to all this "shore power, boon docking" stuff, well RV'ing in general, but we have gone for several days "off the grid" with no issues. I don't think it would be good without a re-supply for much longer than that. It comes standard with 100w of solar and we added an additional 160 watts of solar. I am finding that travel in general in this thing is a wonderful experience. The journey in a class B is about as much fun as the destination!

Awesome attitude - you're gonna have a ton of fun!

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by Davydd

My thoughts went mainly to that induction cooktop which requires shore power or running the generator to use. It presupposes you are going to traditional hookup campgrounds like the big RVs. If there is one thing that bugs me the most in a state park, national forest, national park wooded and quiet nature enjoying campground setting is people running generators. I'm guilty of that with my past Class Bs but was so reticent that I would not do it unless there were several others already running. So I suffered and waited for that cacophony of noise to start up.

I have the induction cooktop but also the inverter and battery power to use it without need of an Onan generator which I now don't have. More important (especially for my wife) is being able to brew that first and fast cup of coffee in a Keurig upon getting up in the morning while quiet hours are still in effect.

The induction cooktop seems out of place with this design. Given it has propane already why not just have a propane cooktop. To make coffee in the morning they could just use the stove to create coffee, but with this build they would need the generator running or shore... kind of strange. I think induction makes sense if you have a nonpropane build.

[Davydd]

There are always work arounds if you truly want coffee and using a propane stove is a legit way and used to be the only way in our 40 years of tent camping before going RV. But when you pay 6 figures for an RV I would think one would rather glamp than camp.

[Keyne]

Davyydd I totally agree and your setup is very nice. I just think the Coachman build is strange with the mix of appliances and features. However I think it's an option to have a propane burner.

[f8hasit]

Originally Posted by Davydd

My thoughts went mainly to that induction cooktop which requires shore power or running the generator to use. It presupposes you are going to traditional hookup campgrounds like the big RVs. If there is one thing that bugs me the most in a state park, national forest, national park wooded and quiet nature enjoying campground setting is people running generators. I'm guilty of that with my past Class Bs but was so reticent that I would not do it unless there were several others already running. So I suffered and waited for that cacophony of noise to start up.

I have the induction cooktop but also the inverter and battery power to use it without need of an Onan generator which I now don't have. More important (especially for my wife) is being able to brew that first and fast cup of coffee in a Keurig upon getting up in the morning while quiet hours are still in effect.

Ah, yes I totally get that logic. It does seem a little strange not to have an inverter. In my opinion they went high end on finishes, cabinets and some other stuff but skimped on the batteries...with no inverter. So to run a coffee maker whats the best battery/ inverter setup if I was to add one?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by f8hasit

Ah, yes I totally get that logic. It does seem a little strange not to have an inverter. In my opinion they went high end on finishes, cabinets and some other stuff but skimped on the batteries...with no inverter. So to run a coffee maker whats the best battery/ inverter setup if I was to add one?

To make two "quiet" cups of coffee with a Keurig as we do you might pull 10-15 amps out of your battery. Keurig's are fast and efficient. To do so you would need about a 2000w inverter and at least 200ah of battery power considering your batteries will be used for other things and a morning cup of coffee will be off batteries drawn down overnight. That probably would be the minimum desired.

The problem is once you have a large inverter your electrical desires and capabilites increase like running your microwave or plugging other appliances into your duplex outlets and, of course, using your induction cooktop. 400ah of lithium ion or AGM batteries would suffice for all those desires. Once you have that kind of setup, the second under hood alternator to fast charge your batteries becomes a better option than an Onan generator to practice that quiet electrical use. Simply driving to a trailhead or touring in a park will fast re-charge your batteries more transparently than an Onan.

Under you present setup solar is good but generally undependable day to day in regard to where you camp (under trees), weather (cloudy) and time of year (low sun angle and shorter days). It would easily replace your daily battery draw for coffee most of the time. But you still need that inverter.

Keep in mind, not only in quiet campgrounds, we also make quick cups of coffee at highway rest stops, in the time we are there while refueling at service stations and potentially other stops where one would not want to fire off an Onan. It is about a 5 minute task.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

To make two "quiet" cups of coffee with a Keurig as we do you might pull 10-15 amps out of your battery. Keurig's are fast and efficient.
[...]
400ah of lithium ion or AGM batteries would suffice for all those desires. Once you have that kind of setup, the second under hood alternator to fast charge your batteries becomes a better option than an Onan generator to practice that quiet electrical use. Simply driving to a trailhead or touring in a park will fast re-charge your batteries more transparently than an Onan.

This describes my setup almost perfectly (440Ah/2800 watt inverter/second engine alternator/Keurig). I concur that this represents a sweet-spot for a non-exotic dry camping system.