Class B RV Warranties compared - October 2013

[Mike]

Originally Posted by BradleyC

I believe the Mercedes warranty is separate from the Pleasureway warranty.
If warranty is an issue this is the one I would concentrate on.

MERCEDES BENZ WARRANTY

3 YEAR 36,000 MILE 60,000 KM
5 YEAR 60,000 MILE 100,000 KM POWER TRAIN
DIESEL ENGINE 5 YEAR 100,000 MILE 160,000 KM
5 YEAR 60,000 MILE 100,000 KM ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE

That's a great point. I wonder if MB and other chassis providers consider their warranties null and void after the converters make their first cut? Do the conversion companies assume responsibility for dealing with the chassis warranty? Is it simply a gray area no one wants to venture into?

[booster]

I think that many of the manufacturers have figured out that increasing the warranty time and mileage really doesn't cost them much. The vehicle itself is covered by the manufacturer and is what gets the wear from use and abuse, the appliances are back on their manufacturers and usually only a year, tires on their own, batteries on their own, etc etc. If the major parts of the conversion make it through the first two or three years, I think it is very unlikely that something will happen that the warranty would cover, in another couple years. 10 years, yep, but not within 5.

Our Roadtrek had numerous quality issues from the factory, including fiberglass spider cracks in the gelcoat, but all were done in less than 3 years, and nothing has showed up in the last two.

Good selling point, but not really very useful, IMO. Also IMO, but warranties should always be transferable. It costs them no more than if the original owner kept it, and it gives the new owner some piece of mind that they are not buying a bad unit that was dumped because of problems.

[markopolo]

Updated first post. http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...php?f=9&t=2669

Added Safari Condo.

[SiennaGuy]

Marco, thanks for this info. Has any of these warranties changed since you originally posted this?

[markopolo]

Looks like there has been some changes and new builders that I can add to the list.

[markopolo]

First post in this topic updated to note that Roadtrek warranties are transferable to new owners on resale. Both the 5 and 6 year warranties are fully transferable to new owners on resale. This includes the 6 Year E-Trek or E-Trek package warranty.

[Fastpaddler1]

Well,when I bought my USED Pleasureway Plateau TS from a local rv dealer I simply told themL: "replace the coach and engine battery.Period. With my last RV a Winnebago Aspect 26A I did the same because the batteries died quickly, the engine battery in one week. I told them to pick it up and bring it back with two new batteries, or else!!!
Just saying...BTW when I get our new unit, probably a UNITY TB, I will say the same. Batteries die when sitting unused for a while.

AL

[markopolo]

Just bumping this topic up in case there is any desire to continue an objective discussion about warranties.

In an earlier post I speculated that Winnebago might directly cover appliances but now I don't think that is the case. The RV dealer would likely handle the repair or replacement for the RV owner.

My assumption now is that coach builders basically warranty their work as it specifically relates to the materials and workmanship of the conversion . Appliances would be covered by the appliance manufacturer.

.................................................. ...............

Roadtrek - I think Roadtrek installed AGM batteries are only covered for one year now and the coverage is from the battery manufacturer.

Roadtrek's warranty period is now 6 years. Terms such as:

nonconformity in materials or workmanship

original component manufacturers may provide their own separate warranties

limited warranty is in lieu of and in exclusion of any other warranties

lead me to think that they limit coverage to their workmanship and materials. I think that is typical of the industry. I would think that an appliance would be covered by the appliance manufacturer.

That's just my interpretation. Update the topic if you've confirmed otherwise.

.................................................. ..........

Adding Coachmen RV. They appears to have a 12 month/12,000 mile limited warranty. I was only able to find:

Motorhome – 12 month/12,000 mile ltd.

in a brochure. Some items would have longer warranties from their manufacturers. There's a 15 yr cold cracking warranty on the Gerfloor. They note a 2 year warranty on an induction cooktop for example.

[mumkin]

As I understand the RT warranty... yes, AGMs have only a one year warranty, but that was the same when I bought my first in 2015.

Appliances are covered by their manufacturers for their limit and then RT covers them to the end of the 6 years.

[booster]

It would be interesting to see if the published warranties are the complete description. I have seen, lately, at least for non RV products, quite a few warranty statements that appear to be a synopsis of the complete, multi-page document.


In the long documents there does seem to be lots of ways the companies to get out of their responsibilities related to the warranty. All the old "abuse", "use for unintended purpose", etc are still there along with the cover everything "normal wear and tear" which can be applied lots of things. Arbitration only clauses are also standard now, it appears. I wonder if they could justify denying a lithium battery claim if the literature showed the somewhat typical -4F low end of operating range and you lived in a very cold place where it gets colder than that? Would you have to try to prove it never sat out in that cold of weather, or would they have to prove it did, or would there have to have been a distinct cold weather warning visible?



When we got our 07 Roadtrek in 08, the AGM battery warranty was with the manufacturer Exide who had a one year warranty that stated the warranty started the day the battery was installed (at the Roadtrek factory), so all the shipping and time at the dealer subtract from the one year. Our van had been on the lot a bit over a year, so both Roadtrek and Exide denied the warranty. After getting it home, we found we had bad batteries in a brand new Class B and no one would honor the warranty. We had to replace them at our cost the first month we had the van.


There have also been some mentions of Roadtrek denying warranty on the 6 year warranty AGM batteries in the etreks, citing "abuse".


This certainly isn't a Roadtrek only thing, as I think lots of companies in many different industries do similar things. The one that gripes a bunch of people is not really a warranty, but handled in s similar dodge. When you buy a Garmin GPS and pay for the "lifetime" map updates, they don't mean your lifetime or ownership time. They only mean until they discontinue support for the model you bought, so a "lifetime" could be only a couple of years. Lifetime warranties use the same, "no longer available" excuse to not honor the warranty. I had lifetime guaranty brake pads in my old, pad eating, Escort. I got about 30K miles per set and had the car 210K miles so lots of pads used. Raybestos supplied new pad maybe 3 times and then when I went to get a set they said no warranty. Their reasoning was that the last pads I got were under a new warranty that wasn't lifetime so no continuing lifetime warranty. Local repair shops got the same thing done to them and had to honor their customer's lifetime warranties out of their own pockets. Perfect example of how to save a small amount of money and lose a lot more in future business.



It will be interesting to see how folks like Volta do on warranty issues, as it appears they will be handling them directly rather than through the RV dealers. It is tough to be able to do specialized repairs around the entire continent of North America. I think they will find it to be very expensive if they have to either send techs out to do the work, ship replacement units our and bad ones back, plus pay someone to put them in.


Warranty issues get much more important as the cost of the warranted items get in the multi thousands of dollars. Way different than if your microwave dies and they deny warranty, and you have to go buy a $50 one at Walmart. I think the now high cost of the components going into the latest generation of vans will show how well the different brands their warranty obligations.

[markopolo]

Thanks Mumkin. I remember the 6 year Peace of Mind Warranty but only found this - https://www.roadtrek.com/warranty/ - when I looked recently and assumed it had changed.

In a brochure I now see what you posted:

Peace of Mind RV warranty

Roadtrek’s six-year industry leading
unlimited mileage warranty covers
the manufacturing of the motorhome,
appliances, electronics, plumbing and
EcoTrek batteries. It is fully transferable from
the first owner to the second owner.
*Original manufacturer’s warranty on all appliances will be applied
first. This warranty excludes the complete chassis (original chassis
manufacturer warranty applies) and AGM batteries (AGM batteries have
a normal one-year manufacturer’s warranty.)

[avanti]

Booster makes several very good points. Addressing one:
I the USA the burden of proof is always on the warranter, not the customer.

The whole “binding arbitration” thing is a real problem, although I am pretty sure that the consumer protection laws come first.

[markopolo]

I am curious about the Hymer / Roadtrek wording change on their websites. Not curious enough to call though!

Hymer warranty wording from Internet Archive:

Hymer warranty from internet archive.JPG

Hymer warranty wording from today's visit:

Hymer warranty Oct 2018.JPG

I don't think of appliances as falling under either workmanship or material. You'd think they'd specifically promote the extended appliance warranty as was done previously.

[booster]

The wording is kind of squishy. Are appliances considered "materials" supplied by Hymer? That would also bring into question some of the power systems like the inverter/charger, engine generator, solar controller, etc that would fit the same description.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

The wording is kind of squishy. Are appliances considered "materials" supplied by Hymer? That would also bring into question some of the power systems like the inverter/charger, engine generator, solar controller, etc that would fit the same description.

Well, it does say "if any part of your Hymer Motorhome fails..." I think it would be hard to argue that appliances or systems are not "part of your motorhome".

Most warranties are worded to cover "defects in material or workmanship". I think the idea is that any failure is either due to those or to some kind of abuse.

To my non-professional eyes, this looks like an OK warranty. I suspect the change from the old RT warranty is simply an effort to standardize to Hymer policies.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, it does say "if any part of your Hymer Motorhome fails..." I think it would be hard to argue that appliances or systems are not "part of your motorhome".

Most warranties are worded to cover "defects in material or workmanship". I think the idea is that any failure is either due to those or to some kind of abuse.

To my non-professional eyes, this looks like an OK warranty. I suspect the change from the old RT warranty is simply an effort to standardize to Hymer policies.

You certainly could be right, hard to tell for sure. Those of us the come from the manufacturing end of things tend to look at materials as non finished products or a component part. I guess you could look at a microwave as a component of a class B, but it is whole lot different than the upholstery or wiring which is made into something.

[michaelingp]

Originally Posted by booster

When we got our 07 Roadtrek in 08, the AGM battery warranty was with the manufacturer Exide who had a one year warranty that stated the warranty started the day the battery was installed (at the Roadtrek factory), so all the shipping and time at the dealer subtract from the one year. Our van had been on the lot a bit over a year, so both Roadtrek and Exide denied the warranty. After getting it home, we found we had bad batteries in a brand new Class B and no one would honor the warranty. We had to replace them at our cost the first month we had the van.

This doesn't surprise me. When I first started looking at RV's and visiting dealers, I quickly realized that they were not maintaining the batteries. Lead acid batteries can be destroyed by leaving them in a discharged state. Just the smoke, CO and propane detectors on a Roadtrek can completely discharge the house batteries in a month, and in another month the batteries are irreversibly damaged. None of the salespeople seemed to be aware of this. If you are buying a van where this might apply, it would be wise to factor in new batteries into the selling price.

[mumkin]

Let me clarify one detail because it was answered by a factory person. The blurb says that the warranty passes "from the first to the second owner." So many wondered about the 3rd and 4th...etc. The factory person said it is a 6 year warranty from the date of first purchase, and all owners are covered for that period. (wonder if Thor will continue this policy)

Many on the board are very down on EHGNA products due to their lack of quality control, but I have to give them kudos on their warranty coverage. It is very rare that someone has a problem getting things covered... and most issues are crappy dealers. Of course EHGNA, like nearly all manufacturers, is slow to reimburse their dealers... far from the worst I hear.

I have spent the last two weeks trying to leave for AZ, but have had one serious warranty issue after another. None of them were the fault of Roadtrek. One was caused by the Norcold factory and the other was that I got one of a bad batch of "underhood generators" which literally boiled a brand new Group 31 battery to death. The RT warranty manager came to my assistance on FB on Saturday and told me to get it towed to my dealer (which I did on Sunday) and get it disconnected. I consider that a pretty quick response from RT. I spent a day testing the batteries to make sure that they were holding a charge, and will hopefully leave in the morning.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Let me clarify one detail because it was answered by a factory person. The blurb says that the warranty passes "from the first to the second owner." So many wondered about the 3rd and 4th...etc. The factory person said it is a 6 year warranty from the date of first purchase, and all owners are covered for that period. (wonder if Thor will continue this policy)

Many on the board are very down on EHGNA products due to their lack of quality control, but I have to give them kudos on their warranty coverage. It is very rare that someone has a problem getting things covered... and most issues are crappy dealers. Of course EHGNA, like nearly all manufacturers, is slow to reimburse their dealers... far from the worst I hear.

I have spent the last two weeks trying to leave for AZ, but have had one serious warranty issue after another. None of them were the fault of Roadtrek. One was caused by the Norcold factory and the other was that I got one of a bad batch of "underhood generators" which literally boiled a brand new Group 31 battery to death. The RT warranty manager came to my assistance on FB on Saturday and told me to get it towed to my dealer (which I did on Sunday) and get it disconnected. I consider that a pretty quick response from RT. I spent a day testing the batteries to make sure that they were holding a charge, and will hopefully leave in the morning.

Thor could prospectively change the Roadtrek warranty but I don't think they can vacate the warranty on Roatrreks sold prior to Thor's acquisition. I rather doubt they will mess with the existing 6 year warranty since that is one of the features that draws a lot of customers to the brand.

I guess it's possible for an alternator to go full field on its own initiative but I think it's statistically more likely that the regulator or the harness was malfunctioning. If you can get a comprehensive report on this, it would be valuable information for other users. I assume your Nocold is a 12 volt compressor unit. What problems have you experienced?

[mumkin]

This Norcold unit is famous for faulty thermostats, so I just assumed when it wouldn't cycle (giving me a large freezer, but no fridge... in 3 hours it was less than 10 degrees in the fridge section set on the warmest setting). But the tech checked the wiring and found that two wires were mis-connected... he switched them and it started cycling properly.

There has also been a batch of bad alternators for the Promasters from their current supplier. The factory just told me to "disconnect the red wire" and once I get to Mesa, it will be La Mesa. I don't expect that they will provide me with anything more than a new alternator... and I don't expect that they will be in any rush to do it.