Class B registration costs

[Doneworking]

Cost of registering a B has been brought up in a couple of threads but not really pursued. I would be interested in how it varies state to state.

In Oklahoma, you pay 5% when you purchase of new or used vehicle of a "fair market value". This amount was 4% until last year when it was raised to 5%.

Annually, the cost is only that for a tag which is less than a hundred dollars. So, if you buy something worth $50,000 you pay 5% of that ($2500) up front and then an annual fee of less than $100.

How much do you pay in your state?

[gk&hc]

I recently paid $160 to register my Travato in New York State for the next 2 years. There may have been a fee for the new plates when I bought it 2 years ago, but I don’t remember.

[JohnC]

State of California recently raised their license fees. My Hymer Aktiv cost $905 in registration/licensing fees in June of 2018.

[Doneworking]

I should clarify my original post. The fees I listed at 5% of the market value are in lieu of sales or use or franchise taxes.

Do New York and California, for example, charge sales tax or other use taxes on vehicular purchases?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by JohnC

State of California recently raised their license fees. My Hymer Aktiv cost $905 in registration/licensing fees in June of 2018.

Isn't there a referendum on the November state ballot to rescind those increases?

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

I should clarify my original post. The fees I listed at 5% of the market value are in lieu of sales or use or franchise taxes.

Do New York and California, for example, charge sales tax or other use taxes on vehicular purchases?

It's a mixed bag and is both complicated and confusing. This is my understanding:

Any state that has a sales tax probably taxes vehicle purchases but IIRC some states effects lower sales taxes on vehicles than their general sales tax.

In most states, the dealer will provide for a temporary permit to drive away without paying sales tax but which become payable to the buyer's state of residence. If the buyer does pay sales tax at the purchase point, he typically gets a credit for this when registering in the state of residence. For example if a 5% tax was paid at the point of purchase when registering the vehicle in the state of residence that has an 8% sales tax, you only pay the residence state 3%. But if the tax rate at the point of purchase is 8% and you register in a state with a 5% tax rate, your taxes are waived but you don't get any credit for the 3% differential.

California is a brutal state, tax-wise. The sales tax approaches 10% in many counties in the state and the selling dealer can't issue a drive away temporary permit and for out-of-state buyers to avoid being hit with sales taxes, the vehicle has to be physically delivered out of the state either by the selling dealer or a common carrier.

Nevada and Arizona (and perhaps other states) waive sales taxes on vehicles purchased from a private party in or out of state. Dealer sales on used vehicles bought by the dealer are taxable,but if merely consigned with the dealer may not be taxable. In some jurisdictions it depends upon whether the dealer is merely warehousing the vehicle for the consignor or whether they are actively engaging in marketing and selling the vehicle on behalf of the consignor.

Nevada (and perhaps other states) permits the value of a trade-in to offset a simultaneous purchase at a dealer. California doesn't.

The tax basis can vary depending on how the RV is built. If the converter buys the chassis, the taxable amount is some function of the builder's sales price. If the owner purchases the chassis himself, titles it, registers it and delivers it to a builder to upfit, for purposes of registration fees, the improvements don't result in incremental sales taxes or registration fees.

With respect to taxes and fees on the RV, the worst state to live in is California. The best state to live in is Oregon which has no sales tax period and charges chump change for a two year registration period.

After reading this over, I'll hazard the guess that this is more than you want to know.

[Doneworking]

Over the years, we have purchased two rvs in Texas. We live in Oklahoma. We have to take the vehicle to a tag agent in Oklahoma (they are independent businesses that administer all this for the Oklahoma Tax Commission and there are lots of them (three within five miles of my home for example). The agent has to physically take a look at the VIN number to make sure it is the same as on the documents from the Texas dealer. Then, I pay taxes in Oklahoma and they certify to the State of Texas that it was a transaction with a legitimate resident of Oklahoma, not a Texas resident.

Most states, as I understand it, levy their sales tax on vehicles. Oklahoma has a different system and essentially the net result is a five percent tax which is declared an excise tax for four percent and last year one additional percent was added and declared NOT A NEW TAX! Simply the elimination of part of an exemption from sales tax. In other words, the legislature and governor didn't have the courage to increase the tax so they increased it from four to five (a twenty-five percent increase) and declared it NOT A NEW TAX. Talk about a bunch of baloney.

When you add the sales or excise tax back to the cost of a new or used RV in most states, I bet you are really adding anywhere from four to ten percent to the true cost of the purchase, depending on the state.

I was a partner in two really successful businesses in California for many years but sold them mainly because of the income tax levied on out of state investors in small businesses. It was essentially double the income tax in my home state of Oklahoma and I reinvested the sales proceeds here where taxes gave me the equivalent of a 5% increase in profits. I love California and travel their often and have for forty years but it is an expensive state to do business.

[mikeehlert]

Originally Posted by Doneworking

Over the years, we have purchased two rvs in Texas. We live in Oklahoma. We have to take the vehicle to a tag agent in Oklahoma (they are independent businesses that administer all this for the Oklahoma Tax Commission and there are lots of them (three within five miles of my home for example). The agent has to physically take a look at the VIN number to make sure it is the same as on the documents from the Texas dealer. Then, I pay taxes in Oklahoma and they certify to the State of Texas that it was a transaction with a legitimate resident of Oklahoma, not a Texas resident.

Most states, as I understand it, levy their sales tax on vehicles. Oklahoma has a different system and essentially the net result is a five percent tax which is declared an excise tax for four percent and last year one additional percent was added and declared NOT A NEW TAX! Simply the elimination of part of an exemption from sales tax. In other words, the legislature and governor didn't have the courage to increase the tax so they increased it from four to five (a twenty-five percent increase) and declared it NOT A NEW TAX. Talk about a bunch of baloney.

When you add the sales or excise tax back to the cost of a new or used RV in most states, I bet you are really adding anywhere from four to ten percent to the true cost of the purchase, depending on the state.

I was a partner in two really successful businesses in California for many years but sold them mainly because of the income tax levied on out of state investors in small businesses. It was essentially double the income tax in my home state of Oklahoma and I reinvested the sales proceeds here where taxes gave me the equivalent of a 5% increase in profits. I love California and travel their often and have for forty years but it is an expensive state to do business.

You don’t want to register in California.

[rvsprinterguy]

Originally Posted by mikeehlert

You don’t want to register in California.

Well, we live in California and have no choice but to register here. Registration last year was less than $200 on a 14-year old LTV.

I see a fair number of large Class As with Oregon plates here. Some are most likely actually from Oregon, but I suspect a fair number are applying some kind of dodge to save taxes.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

Well, we live in California and have no choice but to register here. Registration last year was less than $200 on a 14-year old LTV.

I see a fair number of large Class As with Oregon plates here. Some are most likely actually from Oregon, but I suspect a fair number are applying some kind of dodge to save taxes.

I've got one word for this...."scofflaws"..... look, we're all paying for the road maintenance of the states we live in.....IF you actually know someone who's this...call it in and report it especially if they happen to be your next door neighbor living there for years.... it's illegal and is forcing people like you and me to pay more for HIGHER taxes..... obnoxious.

Sooner or later... something is going to happen.... accident or something else....and when they are caught....it will be unpleasant....

Just think if everyone did that.... the roads would be in terrible shape worse than their present condition... who's paying for all this.?

[JohnC]

I paid 9.26% county-city-state sales tax when I bought my RV in Gilroy, CA.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

I see a fair number of large Class As with Oregon plates here. Some are most likely actually from Oregon, but I suspect a fair number are applying some kind of dodge to save taxes.

That's not very likely today. Historically, Californians living in the vicinity of the Oregon border would purchase and register their vehicles in Oregon because of the absence of sales taxes plus modest registration fees. But the CHP started hammering them for a vehicle registration address in a different state than their drivers' license. Also, in recent years, Oregon has largely shut this down by demanding comprehensive documentation that the individual registering any vehicle in Oregon actually be a legal resident of the state. Even property ownership in Oregon is not sufficient without supporting evidence of domicile.

There is an amusing tax dodge going on at an Oregon border but it has nothing to do with vehicles or California. The city of Vancouver, Washington has become the par excellence of tax avoidance in the entire country. Residents of Vancouver WA pay no state income taxes and to avoid sales taxes on what they purchase, they simply take a 10 minute drive across the river drive across the river to Portland where there is no sales tax.

[mikeehlert]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

Well, we live in California and have no choice but to register here. Registration last year was less than $200 on a 14-year old LTV.



I see a fair number of large Class As with Oregon plates here. Some are most likely actually from Oregon, but I suspect a fair number are applying some kind of dodge to save taxes.

In California too. My 2018 Paseo was over 3x what you paid after also paying sales/use tax.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by mikeehlert

In California too. My 2018 Paseo was over 3x what you paid after also paying sales/use tax.

My 2012 RS Adventurous registration was $732 this past month... renewal was $602 in August 2017 and it went UP to $732.... there was an increase for all vehicles....it's partly on the value and age of the vehicle .....

Yeah, it's VERY expensive...and would be much higher if everyone was skating out and not paying their fair share.....it would only shift the burden of paying higher fees to the rest of us for road maintenance......

In fact, electric vehicles don't pay anything in fuel taxes for this.......

[SteveJ]

Somewhere around $30-40 for my Roadtrek in FLA.

[rvsprinterguy]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

That's not very likely today. Historically, Californians living in the vicinity of the Oregon border would purchase and register their vehicles in Oregon because of the absence of sales taxes plus modest registration fees. But the CHP started hammering them for a vehicle registration address in a different state than their drivers' license. Also, in recent years, Oregon has largely shut this down by demanding comprehensive documentation that the individual registering any vehicle in Oregon actually be a legal resident of the state. Even property ownership in Oregon is not sufficient without supporting evidence of domicile.

There is an amusing tax dodge going on at an Oregon border but it has nothing to do with vehicles or California. The city of Vancouver, Washington has become the par excellence of tax avoidance in the entire country. Residents of Vancouver WA pay no state income taxes and to avoid sales taxes on what they purchase, they simply take a 10 minute drive across the river drive across the river to Portland where there is no sales tax.

Glad to hear about the CHP aggressively enforcing this. FWIW, the cases I know of for a fact were large Class A RVs with Oregon plates but domiciled in the SF Bay Area. Far enough from the Oregon border to not trigger immediate suspicion, in other words. This was a long time ago, and I know of no recent cases.

The sales tax situation in Washington and Oregon is fascinating. Washington loses an enormous amount of tax revenue when people cross the Columbia river to buy things. However, Washington residents are breaking the law when they do this. They're supposed to be filing a use-tax form and paying the tax on anything they buy out of state or on the internet.

Do many of us declare what we've bought on the internet and pay use-taxes to our local government? I'll take the fifth on that one.

[Lilliport]

Living in MT has many perks, one of them being no sales tax. If your vehicle (regardless of type) is 11 years old or older, you may permanently register the vehicle. For my 1998 American Cruiser, this cost about $250, but one and done! If you choose a charity-support type of license plate, you would likely have an on going fee to the cause. Do we support road use and maintenance? Yesiree, every time we buy a gallon of gas.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

The sales tax situation in Washington and Oregon is fascinating. Washington loses an enormous amount of tax revenue when people cross the Columbia river to buy things. However, Washington residents are breaking the law when they do this. They're supposed to be filing a use-tax form and paying the tax on anything they buy out of state or on the internet.

On first impression what you indicate here is correct. But not necessarily. Here's why:

In most states, if you purchase something from an out of state vendor for delivery in your state, as you point out, you are not liable for sales tax per se, but you are required to pay what is is commonly described as a compensating use tax that is equivalent to your state sales tax.

However, there is a subtle difference with the Washington/Oregon scenario that is legally significant. You are not buying the merchandise in Washington if your physical presence at the time and point of sale is Oregon. Consequently, when you re-enter Washington, you are bringing previously acquired personal property into the state which is not a taxable event.

[rvsprinterguy]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

On first impression what you indicate here is correct. But not necessarily. Here's why:

In most states, if you purchase something from an out of state vendor for delivery in your state, as you point out, you are not liable for sales tax per se, but you are required to pay what is is commonly described as a compensating use tax that is equivalent to your state sales tax.

However, there is a subtle difference with the Washington/Oregon scenario that is legally significant. You are not buying the merchandise in Washington if your physical presence at the time and point of sale is Oregon. Consequently, when you re-enter Washington, you are bringing previously acquired personal property into the state which is not a taxable event.

Regarding its residents, the State of Washington disagrees with you:

"Use tax is due if:
Goods are purchased in another state that does not have a sales tax or a state with a sales tax lower than Washington’s. For example, items you purchase in Oregon that are used in Washington are subject to use tax.
..." (https://dor.wa.gov/find-taxes-rates/use-tax).

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by rvsprinterguy

Regarding its residents, the State of Washington disagrees with you:

"Use tax is due if:
Goods are purchased in another state that does not have a sales tax or a state with a sales tax lower than Washington’s. For example, items you purchase in Oregon that are used in Washington are subject to use tax.
..." (https://dor.wa.gov/find-taxes-rates/use-tax).

Washington is at liberty to enact any regulations they want but that doesn't necessarily make them legally enforceable. It's so broadly written that if someone moves from Delaware, (which has no sales tax) to Washington, he would be legally obligated to pay a compensating use tax on the purchase value of not just his car, boat or plane but all the possessions he brings with him.

Speaking of Delaware, I think we would both agree that California is one of the most tax hungry states in the country and if there is any way they can impose a tax on an event they will. Cars, boats and planes are grist for their mill.

Still, there are legal limits. I know of some folks who are among the wealthiest in California. They buy and bring in collectibles from Europe in their jet. They land and clear customs in Delaware and continue to their California residence with the collectibles. California FTB howls about it but they are unsuccessful in levying any compensating use tax because after clearing Delaware, the purchases have become non-taxable personal property and apparently the FTB has been unsuccessful in getting the courts to rule otherwise. I don't think Washington would be any more successful.

There's probably WA case law that would clarify this one way or the other. I know there was a period when Washington law enforcement was selectively stopping and searching WA vehicles returning to the state from Portland but I believe that litigation put an end to that.