Class B and HOAs

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by <<B-Guy>>

Makes me wonder - do RV manufactureres have any choice in this? RV, MH or Van? Or is it clearly established by State or Provincial regulations and the manufacturer has no choice?

Maybe it varies by state or province?

Manufacturers have no legal choice in the matter in the US (can't speak for Canada). RVs are defined by each state and each state writes its own rules. From the definitions that I have read (not all of them, of course), the deciding factor seems to be if it is "self contained"... plumbing, cooking, sleeping.

In MN, the plates say "RV" as the first two letters. I overcame this by getting personalized plates. It still says "Recreational Vehicle" across the bottom of the plate, but I put on one of those decorative plastic plate frames and that is now covered. Remains to be seen if anything is said, but there is another neighbor in my new development of only 20 units that parks his work van in front of his full garage daily.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Makes sense I guess - unfortunately for us!

[Rockwood27]

Background:

We live in NH with no sales tax. Our registration fees are on a sliding scale, based on original sales price and, I think, weight class. We typically register our vehicles at the local town hall or motor vehicle department. We don't have motorized "RV" plates in NH.

My Experience:

When I went to register my used, 2012 RT 190P on a Chevy Express 1 ton chassis, the town clerk "insisted" that it be registered as a Chevy van. She used a new van list price of $30,200 as opposed to a RT value of around $90,000. This saved us a considerable amount of money for the registration. We do, however, insure it as an RV.

NH: Live Free or Die (as long as you pay your taxes)!

[papab]

Originally Posted by SDDavis

So, my CCR's have this language:
No travel trailers, motor homes, commercial vehicles, boat trailers, etc.... other than automobiles or vehicles used primarily for general transportation purposes may be parked or stored upon the condominium premises.

I do recognize that fighting this may be akin to fighting City Hall. But, my Excel TS 2011 is my daily driver. I drive it almost everyday. My question is if I'm out of luck if asked to park it elsewhere? My point is that the sentence above allowing vehicles used primarily for general transportation purposes would allow me to park my van in the driveway . Also, the language above where the CCR's use the word "primarily". The word "primarily" indicates to me that the vehicle can/could have a secondary purpose. Seems like they would have said "exclusively" if they wanted to exclude daily driver vehicles other than automobiles.

One other question: My HOA doesn't control the streets within our development. They are patrolled and plowed by the county. You are allowed to park on the street for up to 72 hours before you have to move. Couldn't I just park on the street outside my house?

Don't give up without a fight, or at least a discussion. It is your daily driver, so you have that argument. The other thing to consider is to convince them that the rule was intended for full size RV's and a class B, less than 22? ft long should not be banned.

[Davydd]

Booster said it with clarity in Minnesota in less cost and less insurance in Minnesota with the RV suffix on the plate.

HOAs exist for several reasons. Many reasons are necessary because of common facilities of which we have many that I've outlined earlier. Another reason is keeping your property value high and that is more subjective and comes with nit picky things like getting a letter from your HOA that an on property decorative street lamp is burned out (my sister got one of those), or preventing you to paint your house brilliant pink when a rustic motif is desired by the community, or preventing you to park your tireless pickup up on blocks in your driveway.

RV's, boats, commercial vans, etc. bans are usually there for appearance in the neighborhood in the belief that their appearance is distractive to the neighborhood and could collectively drop property values. That's very subjective but probably right. You either buy into an HOA with that belief of protection or you believe you have god given rights of freedom to do what you want with property. No one forces you into an HOA and if you bought into one, you have accepted the advantages. If everyone thought like you in the neighborhood in desiring to circumvent the rules then don't you think your property value might go down? You might get your way with a Class B, but assuredly your neighbor would then think parking a 40 ft. Class A RV next to your house would be OK too. That's the Genie out of the bottle effect.

[GallenH]

Originally Posted by Chanuk

The issue here is that for 14 years class B vans were accepted in this development and now all of the sudden the new management company has decided to enforce the covenant. They are using the board as their excuse!

I did some work on my property which extended the footprint of an addition slightly into the setback area on the side. City code is 8' but our HOA designates 14'. Numerous other structures within our HOA area had footprints which extended into that 14'. Ours would only infiltrate about 1.5' for 3' (our lot pies out). Precedent was everything. Ours was approved on grounds of precedent. I wonder how precedent would apply here? I believe it has to do with consistency of application over time. You can't look the other way for years without some consequence.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by SDDavis

Thanks! Good suggestions. The HOA has been in place since the development was built; about 25 years. Ironically, I believe it is the presence of other RV's that have prompted the HOA to issue a "friendly" reminder via a newsletter. There are at least a couple of Sprinters of similar size within the community. My next-door neighbor has a Promaster with an awning he uses to store his motorcycles. My van doesn't have anything that really indicates that it is an RV; ie; no RV plates etc.. But it is rather tall!

Sadly HOA's do good, but the downside is with new board member rules change in most cases by them and not the HOMEOWNERS. You truly have to review the rule. Now if the RV rule came in after that can be helpful. Now as you stated. Your RV is a VAN, is there or was there a rule in place before you moved in regarding trucks and VANS?

Also, talk with others in the HOA like yourself who have RV's Get history, learn from them as you may find a point. The other things are if you use the RV VAN for your JOB or the wife. Good luck as I ave been reading and you have gotten some wonderful feedback. This is what a forum is truly about helping each other.

I truly enjoyed reading all of Davydd, stuff lots of good solid information in his post.

[Nic7320]

Originally Posted by Rockwood27

I'm currently facing the opposite issue with my Roadtrek 190P built on a Chevy Express van. I want to store it at my daughter's association's RV and boat storage lot. We own the home that my daughter lives in. I showed a photo of the RT to the HOA manager and she said it looks like a van and not an RV. I guess more education is needed!

Show them the RVIA sticker on the side. That makes it an official RV in the eyes of DMV, and your insurance company.

Another case in point, I got stopped at a checkpoint by the Homeland Security rent-a-cops in Colorado and told I couldn't cross the dam because I was in an RV (it was a 3/4 ton Roadtrek RT170P). Meanwhile, three 1 ton pick-up trucks drove past me without getting stopped. So apparently, my little tiny campervan RV can somehow do significant damage to a huge dam, but larger heavier pickup trucks aren't a threat. Go figure.

[Bjones7788]

Dont be surprised if the countrer person decides how to register it - RV or Van - on the spot - rightly or wrongly

And they may base it on how ot was previously registered if it is used


BJ

[booster]

Originally Posted by Bjones7788

Dont be surprised if the countrer person decides how to register it - RV or Van - on the spot - rightly or wrongly

And they may base it on how ot was previously registered if it is used


BJ

Positively agree with this, and would add that the counter person's decision can be very much influenced by how the bill of sale is written. If it says Chevrolet in the "make" section it will likely show up as a van, but if it says Roadtrek, it will likely show up as an RV.

[Nic7320]

Originally Posted by booster

Positively agree with this, and would add that the counter person's decision can be very much influenced by how the bill of sale is written. If it says Chevrolet in the "make" section it will likely show up as a van, but if it says Roadtrek, it will likely show up as an RV.

This is a problem with many RVs. They start life as an "Incomplete Vehicle" by the chassis manufacturer, but still get a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) at that point. Then the RV manufacturer turns it into an RV (and a completed vehicle), and sometimes -- gives it another VIN (e.g. Forest River adds a new VIN next to the Mercedes VIN on a MB class C). Then, DMV uses the incomplete vehicle VIN and ignores the RV manufacturer's VIN, but they use the date of RV manufacture, rather than the date when the chassis was made. It lead to a lot of confusion with the title, insurance and registration, since my chassis is MY 2011, and my RV is 2012.

[Davydd]

Every state licensing law is different. Insurers interpret vehicles differently. Upfitters sell everywhere and change descriptions to aid their business and not the purchasers. However, if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck. If you know the purpose of the HOA rules and understand them, then act appropriately.

[Van_Dreams]

Originally Posted by avanti

, the problem with HOAs is that, since the positions are uncompensated and often a constant source of grief by those who choose to participate, they tend to attract power-hungry people with time on their hands--not always optimal folks to whom one wants to be beholden. This is by no means universal (we have a HOA at a vacation property and they are great). But not is it uncommon. The larger the community, I suspect, the greater the likelihood of this problem occurring. It is probably a non-issue in Davydd's situation, but it can be a big problem in other cases.

THIS^^^

I’m a lawyer who has had occasion to deal with some nasty HOA disputes. Having seen some revolting injustices done by HOA’s controlled by nasty factions within communities, I would never personally cede that kind of power over my property to anyone. Also, the injustices are sometimes committed by perhaps one or two controlling members of the HOA who in turn control the organization to which the HOA has outsourced membership responsibilities, which in turn delegates control of the dispute to a law firm that is abusive and greedy (typically the “offending” homeowner is responsible for legal fees under the covenant which is an obvious moral hazard for the law firm). The situation can very quickly spiral out of control.

[SDDavis]

Originally Posted by papab

Don't give up without a fight, or at least a discussion. It is your daily driver, so you have that argument. The other thing to consider is to convince them that the rule was intended for full size RV's and a class B, less than 22? ft long should not be banned.

Great point about the size! Thanks